Thetownend.com

Well its the U.S elections today is it not.

Im going for Obama for this, partly due to the fact there has not been a black president, and 50 years ago would have been victimised severely, ie having to give up seats on buses, racist abuse etc etc.

However unfortunately, i think that if elected, he could well be assasinated within six months.

Oh his Gran died yesterday too.

Not this crap again.

Cant wait for it to be over to be honest.

Quality, won't be getting enough of this today, be glued to Fox/Sky/BBC later hopefully it'll be a day to remember.

What I've learned from Fox this morning

- Obama's nan died of cancer yesterday,
- George W's still a cupid stunt.

So fuck all to do with his policies then, just purely based on the colour of his skin?

I'd prefer Obama to win, as I think he'd do things differently, think the change angle he's going for is a good one.

Not too sure on McCain, ex military, too old, think the US opponents would prefer him to win, and I do not like his running mate.  So I'd prefer Barrack Obama as 44th US President, although it's really none of my business.

Yeah tans, not exactly top notch selection criteria there. Although I suppose it doesn't really matter I how you pick your favourite unless you've got a secret American life.

I want Obama to win because I've heard rumours that he's a muslim.

I think people are losing sight of the most important thing happening today, namely Brighton V Derby in the Carling Cup.

If Brighton win, we'll be playing them in the JPT next Wednesday. Which will vindicate the lies I've told my boss to get the time off.

Come on people! Look at the bigger picture!

Don't you mean if Brighton lose we'll be playing them next Wednesday?

Go Obama!

Yes, that's what I meant (Cunt)

Go Osama!

On the US election Obama will win, the Fonz has decreed it I just hope that it's a clean win without voting card scandals and court action.

Obama reminds me of Blair in '97...all talk about change and no substance.

McCain reminds me of Godfrey in Dad's Army.

I cannot see Obama winning in states like Alabama !!!

Hopefully Obama will win.  The world could do with a more moderate US president.

Some of you seem to be underestimating the importance of today.  Are we going to spend the next 4 years sucking on the ringpiece of a young man promising change or the wrinkly old anus of an old probably incontinent ol man promising a safe pair of hands as he shafts the world.

The nation waits with bated breath.

How can you say that? He has not even been elected yet so in his defence it is pretty hard to put his words into action.

That was very wrong what you just said there. To me, it goes on the best candidate for the job, Obama is for me the correct choice. He's an ambitious man, and if you've been watching some debates with him between Mcain then you'll see he does talk alot of sense and i think he can really make a difference.
He also has some really good financial experience and at the moment that's just what you need at this point in time with recession looming.

Obama for me!!

i'm going to try pulling an all nighter to watch/listen to this tonight.

it's too close to call to be honest and a lot depends on whether those supporting obama in the polls actually vote for him when it comes down to it - i think for a lot of americans they'll have a real problem voting for a black man.

if mccain is elected i can see things getting worse, especially with devilbitch at his side. furthermore, if he dies then we're stuck with palin...at least with obama i can foresee some change.

Depends if you think being a communist (as some Americans seem to think he is) is moderate  :)

Personally I don't rate either of them, not sure what Obama stands for, other than 'change' whatever that means and McCain is an incompetent fool.

Am I seriously the only person on here that would give her a damn good fucking sorting out ?

Did anyone hear that thing on Scott Mills last night where they were asking British people on the streets who they are going to vote for in the American elections as a joke and they all gave an answer!!!! they even asked one guy "well are you an American Citizen?" and he said "Yeah but Im 19 Im allowed to vote" Oh my life!  ::)

I think you're in queue behind Mr Ian Hislop

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=48HsKY95p1I

nope. i would.

Obama will win because he didn't rely on public funding, unlike McCain.

I still think Mccain is going to win though I  hope Omaba wins.

I'll be staying up all night and watching it,should know by 2 am who the next President will be.

:nod: Without a seconds thought.

Thirded.

I agree with his policies better than what that twat McCain is coming out with.

As for the second part I wouldnt expect anything less from you.

What? the part about being assasinated?

Unfortunately i dont think he would last long if elected. Dont get me wrong, I want him to win, hopefully itll be a refreshing change.

As for Sarah Palin, i would quite happily stick my cock in her mouth and make her gag until she loses consciousness.

I'll watch it until the official confirmation - I'll be flicking though trying to take in as many channels as I can.

Barack should win but I remain sure that McCain will sneek it. I'm not stupid enough to think that Obama will introduce radical changes that will instantly change the world - but he will go alot further than McCain ever would. McCain IS essentially 4 more years of Dubya and heaven forbid he pops his clogs and they'll have Palin in charge. Jeebus wept.

This election has been enthralling - I don't watch X-Factor, Big Brother or Formula 1 etc I watch the U.S. election coverage and it's never disappointed me. Each to their own and so on.

If i was in America right now, in the same circumstances as i am now, i'd be forced to vote for McCain. I think Obama's policies on extending welfare payouts to those that can't/won't work are going to piss a lot of your average Americans off and have a knock on effect that could further hinder their (and so ultimately our) economy.

I think both candidates are poor.

Bizarrely the American election leaves Brown in a dilemma. Instinctively he would support an Obama win, but the 'policy of change' message grates against Brown's experience argument.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/columnists/rachel_sylvester/article5076339.ece

Well it was a weak arguement in the 1st place wasnt it?

"Trust me, I helped fuck things up in the 1st place so I'm clearly the man to get things back on track"         *cheesy Blair smile*

But by extending welfare payments you increase the amount of money going through the system which helps strengthen the economy.

Obama is a Socialist...look what socialism has done to this country.

Tans,

Your post didn't mention the policies he has, only his skin colour so come that bollocks.

Do they sell white ace in America though?  ;)

In one respect, this is true, but there's also a lesser incentive to work for those on marginal incomes in the production/service/building industry

Coupled with Obama's planned tax rises, i think i saw statitics somewhere that historically in America that tax revenue has increased as taxes fell due to the increased desire of the American people to go out and get a job knowing they would keep more of their earnings. Or something like that.

I'm not a great political commentator or analyst :)

What has socialism done for this country? It appears no worse than what communism did to the east. Or even what thatcher did for that matter.

In Tan's defence he has no real concern on what Obama's policy's are so in all fairness he can judge him on what the fuck he wants

Which would be more of an issue if there were an excess of job vacancies for people to fill, but the rising unemployment is because these positions are disappearing. And anyway, you'd have to increase welfare payments and benefits a hell of a lot in much of America before you wouldn't be better off getting a job.

Are you thinking of that curve theory thingy... Laffer Curve? I don't think it really holds up in reality. I'm not very good on all the proper terms and stuff.

I'd argue that he is an "Amercian socalist" and cannot be compared to left wingers in this country at all really. Yes he is to the left of the american spectrum but he'd probably still be to the right of ours .

America is a very right wing country,  can you honestly imagine an american president letting millions stay on the dole / "incapacity" benefit in paid for housing for an idefinate period whilst immigrants do the menial / low paid jobs that need doing?

From an international perspective the world could really do with a more relaxed and worldly wise amercian president.  As someone else said, Mcain is just 5 more years of dubya

what has socialism done to this country?

created a benefits dependant underclass who wont work?

I can sense a lumps 4 page rant coming soon,  I look forward to it :D

where as capitalism is coming along just fine and fucking dandy.

Capitalism is not perfect but it's better than the alternative, or would you prefer to live in a Communist state?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/us_elections_2008/7707894.stm

How all elections should be done.

That's right, fake dance-offs.

i never said that, im a socialist not a communist.

Same thing, only you've left your gun at home...

 It was very reassuring to see the US government effectively nationalising US banks recently....

 Had Britain had a proper socialist government for the last 11 years, it could have done something useful like nationalising the railways.

why should i carry a gun? I have security, no cunt would get close.

The railways are essentially nationalised under Network Rail as confirmed by Jack Straw in 2007.

Perhaps it's better not to comment on other nationalisation projects, like, British Leyland, British Aerospace, British Steel, BP, BT (where it took literally 4 months at least to install a telephone line) NEB etc etc

Not forgetting Northern Rock, and the £37bn taxpayers' bail-out of the banking industry...

Anyhoo. Back on topic. Exciting innit.

has he won yet?

The British coverage hasn't even started yet... Think I'll go with the BBC.

newsnight is doing a bit of build up on bbc2 before it kicks off on 1.

If I didn't have a job I'd drink tea and play football manager all night whilst watching this.

As it is I'm going to see the first results in around midnight and hopefully welcome Obama in the morning.

Craziness. I'm just about to chip downstairs to make a pot of tea. Good times.

Wish I had loads of beer though. Oh well.

5 Live,diet coke  and Oblivion on ps3 for me.

I was happy watching Matthew Kelly and Phil Tufnell learning about their relatives who fought in WWI.

The BBC have Jeremy Vine in the Snow role.

Can you make a Argonian theif ninja called flammable please?

you have a ps3 yeovil?

my dad got facebook yesterday.

McCain 8
Obama 3

yeovil is a NERD

i'm going to listen in bed until i fall asleep...so the next five mins

No shocks so far.

Not at all but the next few expected results should be interesting.

Ah, of course - Ricky Gervais and his thoughts on U.S. politics.

Hahahaha when the interviewer asked Gervais "who would David Brent vote for" you can see his face drop and he looked oh-so unhappy about answering.

only 3 mins to go on the little bbc clock until the next ones.. I bet at least one of them is delayed.

The Obama fans need a new blue state just to settle their nerves.

Good call on the delay Benjamin.

what does the 270 to win mean? Are they like little sub-districts of the individual states?

270 represents the amount of electoral votes needed to win.

So they need to win 270 counties?

Each state gets a number of votes. It's weighted differently for each state

I think it works that each state is given a number of points depending on how many people live there. You get that many points if you win the state. It's not split into regions within each states.

Ohhhhhh i see. makes sense i guess

Jeremy Vine explains all every time he gets screen time.

http://people.howstuffworks.com/question472.htm

There you go Dave.

Cheers

In 10 minutes we MIGHT get some interesting outcomes.

South Carolina remains Republican.

My Mum had Facebook ages before I bothered,she keeps sending shit that I have to ignore.

My Mum bought me a PS3 cos im always skint

I can highly recommend the 5 live coverage,Richard Bacon is doing a great job,informative with just a hint of sarcasm.

Richard Bacon is alright on 5Live I must say.

More blue for Obama.

This doesn't look good for McCain.

sounds like a case of waiting to see how much he wins by

I like to think my old Obama avatar played its part in this probable Democrat win.

Yep at this time four years ago, Bush had it in the bag. Obama needs to take one new State and I think that'll be that. Florida early figures indicate blue... heard that before :)

Obama should win it now shouldn't he really? If i wake up and he hasn't i'll be most shocked

I think my old King of the Hill ridicule signiture of McCain/Palin helped also.

USA... You-are-welcome.

Apparently pennsylvania has gone to obama. Wasn't that the one they were saying was mccains stronghold?

Pennsylvania is a swing state. I believe John Kerry took the State in '04 but by a pretty small margin. As far as the North East of the USA is concerned that was a major State for the McCain campaign and really they needed to take it. They failed.

A mental landslide would be ace.

I am a bit disappointed though, I wanted the first black American president to be Uncle Phil from the fresh prince.

I think we all did Ben. James "Uncle Phil" Avery was also, of course, the voice of Shredder in the animated glory of the Teenage Mutant Ninja/Hero Turtles.

[url width=350 height=256]http://www.buddytv.com/articles/Image/The-Fresh-Prince-of-Bel-Air/James-Avery-profile.jpg[/url] http://xd0.xanga.com/40fd805202731154227364/z115312422.jpg

What a guy.

Georgia for McCain.

boooo at georgia.

oooh Jackson,didnt he accuse Obama of not being "proper" black

bloody nagger.

That'd be Jessie not Micheal...

Probably.

I went to that anti-Iraq war march back in 2003 just to hear a Jesse Jackson speech - he was amazing.

I want more projections you bastards.

Fear not we are a mere minutes away... hopefully.

Obama over half way.

Obama: Michigan, Minnesota, Wisconsin, New York

McCain: North Dakota

FOX have called Ohio for Obama... If that's true, we can all go to sleep.

Im not sleeping till the morning!

Likewise.

Those students in Georgia look gutted in the background.

Fox have called Ohio and New Mexico but they're not on the bbc counter yet.

Would you trust FOX?

Come on Florida.

Argh! John "war mongoring world hating rabid neocon" Bolton is on the BBC.

hahaha, he's not happy.

That poor reporter - she didn't get the chance to tell Bolton to fuck off and die.

it was ace.

Yey, Ohio properly called.

It was an awesome moment... and I think now Ohio is called the U.S. have a Democrat in the White House.

I want to see me an interracial political raping.

Interesting. Now you've said that, that's all I want to see.

I wish I had a beer to celebrate with :(

That park in Chicago filled up pretty nicely.

So has he won then?

Nope, not yet... But it'll take one fucking dramatic change in fortune for McCain to win it now.

Cheers, just managed to read the BBC website.

Fucking pikey cunts are setting fire to everything tonight

Texas is gay.

BUSH COUNTRY. Die hard Reps there. Have you seen the episode of King of the Hill when Hank Hill shakes George Dubya's hand, realises he has a limp handshake thus briefly losing his faith in him and politics :)

Texas will be an unhappy State by morning.

I haven't watched any King of the Hill for years. Every time I hear about it I'm surprised it's still going. Always amused me when I have watched it though.

It was axed by FOX this week actually after 13 seasons... Although I read that ABC want to take it on.

King of the Hill 8)

Quality, this is miles more interesting than the British lark. The first US elestion I've actually sat/am sitting through, it's fascinating. Biggest job in the world I suppose.

Looks done and dusted now, surely Obama's, I've followed it with quite genuine interest over the last 3 or 4 months but you never know.... I wonder where (assuming he wins) Obama will drag the States. Can't help but think McCain's the man to perhaps change things around economically. But then I suppose if Obama withdraws troops from Iraq we'll do the same, that's the 2 big things that affect the UK?

It's my favourite animation by a country mile.

Florida is close again.

This is my 3rd - The USA is my academic battlefield, it's interesting stuff. We sneer at the Americans at any given opportunity but anyone would be foolish to underestimate the worldwide importance of U.S. Election nights.

As a spectacle Bush vs. Gore was insane - Bush vs. Kerry was simple - and this one is history in the making.

Are the BBC doing heart beat sound effects or am I having a heart attack?

It's you. Panic.

A good panic is probably for the best if you're going to have a heart attack.

Damn,I knew I shouldnt have knocked the fags on the head  >:(

For faster effective relief agony.

Hahahaha another reporter facing a smarmy counter attack.

Hahaha Bolton is a knob.

Hahahaha Bolton having a go now.

This is amazing.

John Bolton's a bitter righty twat

hehe bad loser.

they should get TVs Toby from the West Wing on,he'd kick ass!

Read up on him... He's a complete moron.

David Dimbleby needs to smash a chair over Bolton's head. Although he's defending his colleagues admirably.

Go on Schama.

I think the camp historian matey Schama wassisname is just trying to wind up Bolton now.

and I think it's working.

I want to see if they can make him go mental.

I'm well aware of Bolton... the fact he hates the UN yet was the US Ambassador is what always got me. The bloke's a right mish-mash of a politician, rude, blunt... a bit of a tool

I think they picked the wrong too viginians to interview there.

has Bolton gone?

They were possibly the best of a bad bunch.

I wouldn't be suprised if Bolton walks eventually, us uneducated guests are clearly not worthy of his presence.

[EDIT] Yep, he's gone. Shame.

hahaha

think hes gone

What a shame - that hour flew by.

It's woken me up superbly.

They've got another republican odd ball now. He looks like something from the adams family.

But wait... we have another Neocon and therefore more potential for bickering.

boo they haven't shown him properly yet. I hope he cries or something.

theres a bloke who looks like a slighly tubby Sporticus on ITV

Fingers crossed he goes mental.

and Opra Winfrey seems to be talking about her Vibrater

Doesn't she always.

Elizabeth Dole fucked up majorly - teehee.

They really are running with the novice factor. In fairness Obama has progressed the democratic ranks ridiculously quickly.

The Bush republican people are just blaming McCain now. I suppose they might as well, he'll be dead soon.

He's done well for someone who fought at the Alamo.

The more I think about it the more desperate I am for Obama to take McCain's home state - I think the towel would be thrown in there and then.

Fox are projecting Virginia, which would mean California would push him over 270

...and he will take California. I was expecting the Republicans to win more than they have I must say.

and that is that. He's got it with 297 thus far.

Hahahaha Gore Vidal was ace.

I take little to no interest in this.

But what I do enjoy is the thought of tens/hundreds of thousands of ignorants seething because they think that their new president is an Arabic Muslim Terrorist.

Well done Obama.

He's none of them...He's just a fucking Tony Blair clone and we all know what a cock wobbling cunt, of the highest order, he turned out to be...we're all going to hell in a handcart...

Yes. I personally felt much safer knowing the Free World was being run by a handful of bible bashing ultra conservatives, with a feeble minded cunt who could barely manage a coherent sentence, let alone make balanced, intelligent descisions, as their figure head.

Republicans in charge = Wars in two countries, a fucked up economy and a Worldwide reccession.

While all the above may not be solely attributable to them, lets see what a Democrat can do.

Thank fuck Mr Dead and his nazi female sidekick never got the vote.........

The one thing that annoys me about Osama winning is the Oprah factor, this should not have been a race issue but with her backing Osama publically she made it one (especially as she's never publically backed a presidential candidate before.

I expect Chip McCain will be shipped to the nearest old folks home tout suite, it's a case of slippers, keeping warm and healthy evening suppers for him, whilst his wife files for divorce and finds herself a new man.

Interesting point about the hockey mum, she now has to go back to Capital Hill to work with her colleagues, or as she and McCain have called them for the last couple of months the "old boy network", doubt she'll ever get near the top again - which isn't a bad thing.

Yee ha, I'm glad it's over, now for the really interesting stuff, what is Osama and Joe Bi(n la)den going to do come January.

I'm delighted.  I can remember coming down to breakfast four years ago today to learn that America had given Bush another 4 years, and couldn't quite believe it (even though Kerry was a poor candidate).  Watching the results roll in at 3am this morning (feeding Ardiles Jnr) was an all together different experience.

More than anything, it's relief.  When the history books are written, I'm quite sure the period from 2000 to 2008 will be seen as a dark period for the US.  Bush was over-promoted in my view, and history will not be kind to him.

I've just got up after going to bed after Obama's victory speech.

Highlight of the evening was definately Neoconservative John Bolton on the BBC arguing everything whether it had any relevance to the conversation.

Now the U.S. and indeed the world must wait and see. For the record, I don't see Obama as a Blair type character at all - it's important that the Bush reign of terror can wind down in full without another republican taking the baton.

Yeah sorry I chipped off a bit early Rich. Tiredness got the better of me.

Bolton was fucking hilarious.

I don't get the Obama = Blair thing either.

I think he'll make a massive difference eventually, but at the moment he's been left with so much shite like the war, recession etc that he needs to be really spot on with his decision making.

I fell asleep at 10 o'clock after having planned to saty up for this. Whoops. I'm sure I dreamt Obama getting elected though and checked at about 5am and it was true. Nice.

For anyone half interested it was over by about 1am - certainly when Ohio went democrat... My intent was to stay up for the speeches.

You only need to look at who posted it...

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=tiPuqvO6qT8

I think this sums up Bolton's input last night quite well.

...and here's the Gore Vidal interview too.

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=k2L8iUHZ2sY

Bolton is a ****sucker of the highest order.  A key protagonist in the most discredited US administration in modern history.  He's yesterday's man - as his tantrum on the BBC last night proved.  Another neo-con ****hole who, thankfully, is never likely to grace the airwaves ever again.

That Gore Vidal interview:

If I was Vidal and I was asked about Obama's race, my response would be along the lines of:

"He's American isn't he?"

I am following a thread about this on a local (Thai) forum (Loads of septics), and I can't help but wonder if he was elected despite him being black or because he is black.

DMR, you are a cunt.

The reason he's compared to Blair in '97 is because his only policy seems to be "change" the all mouth and no trousers rhetoric cuntface Blair came out with in '97, and which everyone fell for hook, line and sinker.

I think you're giving far too much credit to Tony Blair if you think he invented the whole "change" rhetoric.

Ironside you really are a tool of the highest order !

I think everyone here knows the reason you don't like Obama.........

Stop beating around the bush eh ?  Come on - admit it .......

You're the first and only person I've heard comparing him to Blair. Frankly Obama could say whatever the fuck he liked, it was almost inevitable the Republicans were doomed because after 8 years of 'em the States' economy is shot to buggery.

Of course we'll have to wait and see if he delivers on his promises but you're pre-empting a bit to say the least aren't you... as sheepshagger says, we all know what the real bone of contention is for you don't we?

Comparing Obama to Tony Blair on what our old PM said in '97 is simply ridiculous because...

01) Remember this is a different nations election - the world will compare Obama with the 2001-2009 reign of George W. Bush and not Tony Blair.
02) Obama hasn't even served a day in office yet how could we compare the two anyway?

In fairness Obama warned the nation that tough times are ahead. Tough times they will be.

He's as WHITE as he is BLACK you cunt.

You should explore some of the political commentators online DMR.

You should read some of his and Blairs speeches and there are some striking similarities.

As said to the other cunt, he's as WHITE as he is BLACK...you cunt.

Too right Ironside. Being black isn't about the colour of your skin.

Being too lazy to look for myself, what are the similarites?

Ebony and ivory, live together in perfect harmony............

How long before an assasination attempt?

Ironside i am a black middle classed man can you stop the racist comments please you honkey

 :soapy tit wank: What racist comments?!

You called dmr a cunt i know what that is slang for:-)

Tut tut tut

Shows how much RESEARCH you have actually done then thicko.....

According to Obama himself - he is a Black, African American

This is how he sees himself - this is how he portrays himself -- this is how the world sees him.

I cant remember ANY news stories today about him being the first "half white" man to be president - however I DO seem to recall a good few about him being the first "black" president.....

Sorry - forgot YOU were always right - it's just the rest of the world that is wrong !

Haha thicko.

We need to one up the Americans by having a Gypo Prime Minister.

I can't believe I'm defending Ironside, but there are a number of black people who don't consider Obama to be black, as he has a white mother. Some were quite annoyed about it and said he should be called 'mixed race' not black.

I don't give a fuck either way................

Its quite sad that race plays such a key part

Did it though?

That made me chuckle!

 :D

All it does really is highlight how futile it is to try and characterise people into black / white. How far do you go back? Do you just count your parents, grandparents, great grandparents? etc? If you go back to your greatx10 grandparents there's 1024 of the cunts (well less if you're an inbred muppet), I'm sure most people are of a fairly mixed race.

Obama is black enough that he'd have been discriminated against by the racial segregation in America 50 or so years ago. So in the context of an American election I think it's fair to say he's black.

It obviously has. All this hoo-ha about having a black president, oprah winfrey on his campaign ffs!

Thank fuck for that. We can all forget about it and move on now. Maybe our very own news channels will do the same. I won't hold my breath though.

Like it or not though rich, it is pretty major fucking news, and will have quite a big impact on how we, and the rest of the world live

I want a black prime minister. Luther blisset or patrick truman will do.

It's gotta be Brian from BB!

3rd choice

Politics is no laughing matter. So, using that as criteria, I'd go for Lenny Henry.......

Always find it ironic that henry did those red nose days when his missus could feed ethiopia in 1 sitting

 Agree that it is news that should be reported...but the overkill to which ISOB refers, is just because media entourage  want to fill up time, and it's good for expenses and postings.

 Unfortunately, the difference this president can make is minimal, as whoever is in charge must be motivated by the dictum, of doing first and foremost what is in the national interest.  As far as the US is concerned, it means to protect their global hegemony, by any possible legal or quasi legal means.

 So don't expect any fundamental policy shift on the large issues....global warming, Islamic fundamentalism/rogue states and third world poverty.

 

Fattist!

It's like Obama being a member of the KKK......

No your the fattest. Fwiw i think and hope he will do a good job. He has to really

Haha!

His mother was white, so therefore he's "mixed raced" Sheepshagger but then we all know you never let the facts get in the way of the hype...

I have to say I agree with ironside on the blair comparisons, When Blair came to power there was quite a feeling of euphoria in the UK, after so so long of the tories alongside all the cool britannia bollocks it was touted as  a new start for the UK.

He actually did alright to start with then the cunt let everyone down by sucking up bush's arse and invading Iraq in an illegal war

its great that he got in but fuck me the americans celebrating on the news are annoying. i hope it stops tomorrow.

In a strictly ethno-biological (I might have made that word up) sense you're right, but that's not the context in which everyone, including Obama, is describing him as the first black president. It's the social/political context of the centuries of oppression followed by decades of prejudice which black people in the US experienced. The racists who caused that oppression never distinguished between black and mixed race, so nor do those who see Obama's triumph as a vanquishing of that period. 50 years ago Obama would still have experienced legally enforced racism in large sections of the US that voted for him last night, mixed race or not. Growing up, and throughout his life, he experienced the same hostility as a black man with two black parents would have done. That's why he categorises himself as black and why in the social and political context (which is what elections are about) it is appropriate to describe him as the first black president, whatever it says on his birth certificate.

FAir point well made, not that I was banging on about his race anyway (See other peoples posts)

I'm more concerned with his policies, or lack thereof.  The comparisons with Blair are rather interesting in my opinion. Blair came along promising the earth but has actually delivered nothing of any substance.

In what way do you mean "delivered nothing of any substance"?  I'm not his biggest fan, but you can't say that the the labour government did nothing of substance under Blair.

Gave the Bank of England Independence.
Bought in a national minimum wage.
The 1998 Human Rights Act.
Ditched Hereditary peers from the House of Lords.
Set up the Welsh Assembly and Scottish Parlement
Gave London an elected mayor
Consent to gay sex lowered to 16, gays allowed in the armed forces, and civil partnerships allowed
Passed the Freedom of Information Act
Tuition fees for higher education

Those are definitely things of substance whether you agree with them or not, and it's not even touching on things like health spending reform, education, foreign policy, and the Northern Irish Peace process.

He touched me

Everyone's touched you.

But he touched me nicely

Ironside - no-one actually cares what you think - Ben was merely proving you wrong yet again with solid examples of substance from the Blair government....

Whether you agree with any of them is completely irrelevant.....

I know you weren't but you accused Sheepshagger of confusing facts with hype so thought I'd redress the balance

The comparisons with Blair are rather facile actually. I can see the appeal of the comparison in that both came in on a tide of feel-good and a sense of a fresh start but that's about it.
* Blair came in at a time of economic prosperity (and arguably built on it) - Barack is facing possibly the biggest global bust we've ever seen
* Blair came in at a time of peace and helped start wars - Barack is saddled with those wars and is going to have to shut them down
* Blair's feelgood factor was encapsulated in "Things can only get better" - Barack said in pretty much his first statement that things are going to be tough (and drew comparisons with FDR and JFK for doing so)

But leaving all that aside the idea that Obama lacks policies is simply nonsense - anyone who saw the McCain/Obama debate will know that both sides have very detailed policies (and indeed very detailed attacks on each other's positions which would not be possible without such details being public) on inter alia:
healthcare
education
foreign policy (specifically the wars)
energy
taxation and the economy

In fact if you look at the Joe the Plumber thing that was only possible precisely because Obama had published detailed taxation policies which "Joe the Plumber" claimed would cost him umpty-thousand dollars and prevent him from taking over the business he worked for and launching his global plumbing empire. The fact that both sides had published detailed taxation plans was also why when it turned out "Joe the Plumber" had not actually told the truth about his work/financial circumstances, media analysts were then able to calculate that "Joe" would have been better off under Obama's proposed tax regime.

I think you've been badly misled by the "online political commentaries" you referred to earlier in this discussion who've either through their own ignorance assumed Obama has no policies (because they don't know about them) or more likely have simply ignored the facts for the sake of setting up a ostensibly appealing but sadly fallacious comparison between Barack and Blair. Maybe you should change where you get your sources of information from or at least back check the "facts" the right-wing blogosphere's arguments claim to rest on?

All good points there paul, but you had to go and ruin it all by using the word blogosphere. You muppet.

I'm from the muppetosphere. It's a kindler gentler world, although we live in fear of velcro

Excellent post. Is the country in a better state now than pre nu-lab?   In my opinion, no.  They had a chance and have fucked it up.

I'm not hanging out of Ironsides arse here, but there is no proof either way that the majority of those things listed have worked.  If you think they have then its your opinion, much like it is Ironsides that they havnt.

If you think that for the ammount of money spent on them that the health and education systems have improved more than very slightly then you're a very optimistic bloke.

Yeah but they are things of substance whether you agree with them or not. Which was my point. Most people will have been affected by at least a couple of things on that list.

I care what Ironside thinks, his opinion/view shouldn't just be ignored because it may differ from the masses.

I don't care if there's a Obama/Blair similarity or not, for me, the big thing is he's not McCain, a straight forward replacement for Bush, with military experience who ticks every box as far as extremists are concerned.

Obama does signal a change in leadership for the yanks, which will be good for the world, one hopes.

Sheepshagger, you only seem to post when I do and your posts only ever seem to attack me.

Contribute something worth reading or fuck off.

The only posts from other people I ever see are when I'm on here. Cunts must be stalking me.

Well its not a very good point then. Every government will do things of substance over a 10 year period pretty much by default.

Of those you listed several have been ineffective at best, whilst others have just wasted huge amounts of (borrowed) public money.

Not according to ironside which is who I was replying to. He did pretty clearly state the whole "delivered nothing of any substance" bit.

fair enough.

Actually he didn't which is why he had to couple up with the ridiculous Palin woman. While in foreign affairs, McCain is hawkish, he's long been regarded by the Republican right as hopelessly liberal on domestic affairs. Hence Palin was brought in to shore up the "core vote" as she certainly does tick every extremist box. You could see the difference in the difference in tone in their rallies - Palin's more often resembled a good ol' down home 30s style lynch mob. I kind of feel sorry for McCain in that regard, he had to shore up his core vote but the woman he brought in to do it completely alienated a lot of swing voters. He was fighting an election against Obama, Bush and Palin (not to mention Lehman Bros) and in those circumstances did well to hold up the Republican vote to the extent he did.

Incidentally, now that Obama-Biden has defeated McCain-Palin, are Hustler going to follow up their "Nailin' Miss Paylin" DVD with a "Ridin' Joe Byden" follow-up?

How was the human rights act a disaster? And who is the minimum wage act not good for? Not having a pop just genuinley curious

Okay he didn't tick all the boxes, but I believe he'd have ticked enough boxes for the extremists to easily substitute Bush with McCain, I don't think they can do that so easily with Barrack Obama.

People who were already on low wages saw their wages reduced to the minimum wage in many cases.

The Human rights Act only seems to protect those violate other peoples human rights. Look at how many foreign criminals who can't be deported because of their human rights.

New York times for going at nearly $200

http://cgi.ebay.com/10-NY-TIMES-PRESIDENT-BARACK-OBAMA-NEWSPAPER-11-5-08_W0QQitemZ290273171733QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item290273171733&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1205|66%3A2|65%3A12|39%3A1|240%3A1309

Thanks but I'll save my money for the one when he gets shot. Probably by Dick Cheney in a hunting accident.

Who the fuck do you think you are ?

If I choose to react to a Bigoted, Racist Xenaphobe when I see fit then I will...

You call me a cunt and tell me to fuck off - you sound like just the sort of chap Nick Griffin and his henchmen are looking for to go and do a bit of campaigning for....

Give us a knock when you get to Old Town eh ? 

TWAT !

Hahaha!

You are a cunt! You've just proven with your little temper tantrum and rant!

Carry on behaving like a little schoolgirl sheepshagger, knock yourself out!

It's the same old broken record...

You can understand him being a Xenaphobe though, she's quite a scary lady:

[url width=483 height=477]http://www.tvacres.com/images/xena4.jpg[/url]

I have not seen one racist comment in this thread.

Chim-chimeney, chim-chimeny, chim-chim-cheroo
Dean likes big black men, especially Jon Carew.

HaHa did you hear that voicemail

No smoke without fire though is there Ironside ???

I have no problem with anyone having an opinion mate - but when that person cannot and will not back that opinion up with any sensible facts and chooses to hurl insults rather than actually have a reasoned debate, it shows his (your) lack of intelligence

Instead when you don't like something or someone's comments you just reply that they are a cunt and tell them to fuck off - and you are surprised when someone is offended by that ?

Twat !

It wasn't a voicemail, you sang it to me down the phone. I answered Steve's phone for him on the drive back from Scunthorpe, remember?