Thetownend.com

Just to say how delighted I was to see the DRS fans getting out of their seats, in their hundreds to have a go at Walsalls player Gray yesterday. He looked a good player, but a hot head, and when he made a few naughty challenges the crowd got out of their seats, which created the pressure whereby he was either going to get sent off or subbed off. In plenty of other games he would have been left alone by our crowd to plunder our right side.

I left the South stand because I could not stand any longer the silence and indifference from our fans in that stand.

Our support from 2008 up until now has been the worst vocal support I can ever remmember from our fans, sometimes dismal. Its pretty clear that our fans became very complacent as soon as the threat of financial liquidation was removed. I think a lot of fans thought we would never get relegated with such a rich chairman.

Next season in League 2 I do think our fans can get back to what we were. Proper support. The fans who will not renew will be mainly the 'fairweather filler' fammily fans that have come in since Fitton took over and it should strip us back to the core support. I also think its time that our older fans led the way in terms of the vocal support, because the younger fans dont seem to have the timing or the determination for it.

At times I was disgusted with our support last season, we were utterly spoilt. Well not anymore! I couldnt believe the reaction of our fans at Wycombe, 2-2 with 10 minutes to go, a chance of going 2 points clear in second place with 2 games to play. 90% stayed in their seats, couldnt be bothered. Compare that to the mid week game under Dennis Wise 2006, when our fans were absolutely superb.

Our away support in the late 90s when we were utterly dire on the pich gave me the determination and inspiration to make sure I was a Swindon fan for life. We need to inspire our younger fans now.

Interesting stuff as usual Spence...I'd put some of this down to the economic recession, think people generally are more miserable since the Bankers and their friends screwed the rest of us over.

Spencer....i got a lot of time for you,your passion for the club shines through...like you for that.

Everyone is different,......for what it is worth i think the fans at this club have been a credit....in numbers and support....our away support is second to none and the home fans have had some dire stuff to watch this season so not unsuprisingly been muted in many matches.
10,400 yesterday was brilliant support.......we wasn't getting that in the days of Ardilles etc.
Everyone isn't like you Spence.....some people see football as an entertainement not as a passion(like you)so paying big bucks and watching rubbish.....then maybe queing ten mins in the Town End for a hot pie,a drink or a burger to be told there was none or that they had to defrost the rolls.....it dosn't lend to a crowd getting to exited.
I dont class myself as a fairweather fan.....but i will not be getting a new season ticket next season....i cannot afford it and i like away matches as well.....so i will pick and choose more next season.......three matches in a week is something i and many others simply cannot afford....as Reg says fans expect more for there money in times such as these.

To be fair in my opinion it has been the passion and the support that has kept me going to watch the Town for many seasons now,many times i have thought about spending my time and money on other things.....to be fair the team on the pitch or the club itself hasn't really inspired me to keep taking  my ass all over the country and to the County Ground for many years.........it has been the Town fans that have done that.

Watch some Premiership matches and you can hear a pin drop at times......football has changed,for many it is akin to watching a film or having a meal,it is a different kind of entertainment these days for many.
And to be fair to those people there really isn't a lot to shout about at football a lot of the time.

I dont know about the Premiership games. Most of the clubs now take brilliant away followings, thousands who stand up all game. Yes, the home support has gone terminally down hill at every ground in the country due to cuntish stewarding and the threat of taking away season tickets. But away from home the Prem fans seem to break out. Besides which, the football they are watching is much more exciting, so you are guaranteed those ooohs and aahs, the reaction of the crowd.

I know everyone isnt like me. But I do know there are 2 types of fans. The fans on the revolving door, who come for a while and then fall away, replaced by other fans, and there are the fans for life. I know one thing though, if you get involved when your team are losing and times are tough, then you are much more likely to stay a fan for life. Its the games like Bristol City friday night at home after 7 straight losses that are sometimes the most satisfying.

The era of ever rising ticket prices seems to have ended and Chairmen up and down the Football League seem to have realised they were only damaging their own product long term with the prices. I remember a time 8 or so years ago when South stand tickets were £23 on the day, Season tickets were about £420 and fans still moaned about £40 for replica shirts!!!! Clueless.

I dont know, if you spend money to go away when you dont have it, then surely you would more apprieciative and excited about the product? Not less. Especially when the product was extremely good. Good team, exciting game, right in the mix at the top of the table.

Ive been to Adams Park 8 times and all things considered that was by far the worst support weve had at Wycombe in all those games (didnt go the JPT game). Sept 06, at least 1500 fans stood up all game. FAC 2003, we lost 4-1 so we made up hillarious songs about Tony Adams all game. This female Wycombe supporter rang up 606 and broke down regarding our incessant taunting. Nov 2002, great comeback, got chucked out with about 50 others for running on the pitch in the rain. April 2001, relegation battle, all stood up, non stop noise from our fans, loud as fuck.

Numbers = Vanity. Vocal support = Sanity.

Dont even fucking mention Wembley.  

Really Reg? You really believe that? I don't think that's true at all. The media wants us to believe that we should be going around with long faces and on the point of slashing our wrists. That is true. But I don't think that's remotely close to reality.  Put it this way. It's not true of me or one single person I know. The fact is that a lot of people have hardly been affected at all by the recession. As ususal, the 24 hour, blanket coverage media that we have now, blows everything out of all proportion.

That's good for you OST.

But a hell of a lot of people HAVE been affected by the recession. Myself included. I don't need the media to tell me I have been struggling for the last 18 months and I have no doubt that countless others, and many on here, will feel the same way.

I didn't say no one has been affected and I'm sorry that you have been. I am just saying the media are trying to make it sound worse than it is. And as you say, if you have been affected, you don't want to be constantly reminded about. But the point is, are you less likely to make a noise at a football ground  than you were pre-recession??

The "complacent era" seems more epidemic of football in general than to Swindon specifically. Plenty of clubs seem to be the same.

I'm also including in this nights out etc....back in say the mid 00's, you could go down town on a Thursday night, and the pubs bars etc, would be busy, plenty of people having a good time in their own way....now it's like a ghost town.

Think I'd pin it down to about 2 years ago exactly when Honda shut down....kind of underlined Swindon going from boom to bust....

I agree with your comments Spencer, good to see the DRS show their disgust at Gray, i hate watching matches with no atmosphere. I hope your right that in League 2 our support returns to how it was. You dont need massive attendences to create a good atmosphere.

Even where i am in the Town End just to the left of the goal has got a lot quieter from the last few seasons (i know the poor season has'nt helped) a lot less people are standing there as well so when i renew my season ticket ill be moving along towards the DRS in the hope of more support and less moaning.

After last season i was looking forward to Brenford away in April but because 2011 has been so poor i cant see us having good numbers there making much noise unless in the unlikely event we get a few wins in before.

then maybe queing ten mins in the Town End for a hot pie,a drink or a burger to be told there was none or that they had to defrost the rolls.....it dosn't lend to a crowd getting to exited.
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I can't belive that Spence White talks about passion and his love of town and you comment on having to que for a burger etc. It is people moaning about shitty things like this rather than supporting the team that make the county ground so sterlie.

Hopefully fair weather burger reviewers like yourgood self won't be around next year. Well you will but only when we are top of the table!

As for the mention of football as a product that does my head in. Football is not a product it is a passion. I don't follow town to watch good football no I follow town becuase they are my passion, my team, my love affair.

The support was dissapointing yesterday considering the numbers. Shame really because the team really need people to get behind them. There were a few chants but it all drifted away quickly. I think the big problem is that the team are not giving anything back with their lack of drive and creativity. I excpected it to be buzzing yesterday but it's almost as if everyone has simply given up now.

The team did play a big part in this. A prime example was around half way through the second half when Grella had just missed a chance, we had loads of momentum and a throw in right in the corner with the town end singing the usual "Come On You Reeeds". Then guess what happened? Straight from the throw in one of our players miss controlled it and it went straight back our for a throw for Walsall. Just like that the atmosphere and momentum disappeared.

Well when the shit happens the fans need to step up and rasie the players with a few chants.

Look what happens when other teams score agasint us. Most clubs fans have no answer and just sit down and wallow in saddes for abit. Where as what do we do.......FUCK OFF!

Our home support is shit, nothing new.

Id say the support from the stands is more important in a relegation scrap than at any other time.

You are down at the bottom, the team is going to kick the ball out of play for no reason. Thats why you are down there, you're crap.

But its the forgiveness and the encouragement from the fans that can keep you up. I would say 2000-01 would be a great example. Our team was dogshit. But when Danny Invincible scored against Peterborough in the 2nd to last game, Alan Reeves and Bart Griemink ran to the Town End and embraced the fans.

Its that sort of romance that can make special things happen. Im not sure our younger fans realise this. Everything is good or shit, with nothing in between. Maybe they are right, football is more cynical now. Too much about money, and not enough about sport.

I think the season ticket promotion in the TE has had a negative effect, some people have bought tickets in there because it's cheap, but aren't vocal at games. So the ones that stroll up on the day end up spread out down in TE2 / 3 and we never get any noise generated.

With the prices closer next season I think some will move back to the side stands. Too many atmospheric sponges rather than people contributing to the support.

I have plenty of mates who remind me of this often. But the fact is you can only live in the present.

If you are intelligent I think you can make the best of football now and still have some great days.

I like to compare and contrast to the past, but I will never write off football just because it isnt as good as it was, it always has the capacity to suprise.

I post on here because I believe in the power of ideas to make things better (corny but true).

The total decline of football as a whole in England can be entirely blamed on sky

Yeh, and then silence again.

Fans make noise when they have something to get excited about. It started well yesterday then died out because the team showed no real desire to win the game. Walsall were crap and hardly even threatened our goal, but despite us controlling the game their keeper only made one or two saves himself. There was no creativity, no courage and no real desire, just a lot of neat passing.

I'm not trying to write off football, nor am I saying we can't improve the atmosphere. Merely that our fans are no better or worse than the majority of other clubs fans.

I guess I disagree with the "our fans are shit" sentiment that frequents the forum. Well I suppose its not incorrect, but its not just our fans- its becoming the norm.

But how to change it? There are a few in the DRS who would quite like a vocal support from there. But most are happy to clap along whenever the ever annoying "barmy army" is wheeled out. You can't make them sing if they don't want to. So I have no idea other than hoping the Town End engine room is noisy enough to entice the dormant vocal element of the DRS.

In some respects the abandonment of the Stratton Bank due to insufficient away following has lead to the demise of Chav corner, which in turn has lessened the atmosphere.

I agree with this completely.  I can understand Spence's frustration.  Don't know you personally, but you strike me as someone who probably 'leads the charge' from the stands and, clearly, becomes quickly irritated when others don't follow.  A few points to make there though.

1.  Everyone shows their support in their own way.  Our most passionate fans aren't necessarily the loudest in the stands.  We're all different.  I understand the argument that the team really needs vocal support, but maybe that's not completely realistic at the moment.  Fans love the club, but we've also now gone a whole ¼ season without seeing a win.  Despondency will take its toll.

2.  Did you see the size of yesterday's crowd?  OK - a fair number were only there because it cost them nothing, but even still you cannot escape the general point that  - given the shocking (and, by most, unexpected) season we've had to put up with - we are still one of the best supported sides in this division.  Yes - crowds are going to fall next season when fewer season ticket holders renew, but we're doing OK on that score.  Think back 5 or 6 years to crowds of 4,500 on a Saturday.  Most of us remember that.  We've come a long way.

I agree Ardiles. One of my bugbears about TEF is the constant slating our support gets. OK, it's maybe not the best but it sure as hell is not as bad as it's made out to be. As you say, the support has been pretty amazing this season considering how utterly shit it's been.

That's because there are 5,600 ST holders. Trust me if we didn't have that many we'd only be getting 6,000.

We have far too many fans who are just happy that the club is in existance.

There was a post on here the other day that I found pathetic. I quote 'As far as I am concerned I'm dead happy even if we get relegated. At least we will be in business next season.' Unbelievable.

I'm inclined to agree with you but one of the reasons I stopped going frequently is the cost of it and moving away. The recession made football a more expensive luxury even when working.

I don't think it has changed much though, more or less everyone I got to know a few years ago can still be spotted around the County Ground. I remember when I first started going in 02/03 and the difference in atmosphere is noticeably different.

I try and never show my frustration at our own fans because it is counterproductive. Ive got a few mates who do it almost every game, and it is cringeworthy, even with a few pints inside of you. I always try and be the last to stop singing, but its difficult nowadays with the kids speeding it all up. It does annoy me that fans now look like they would go down without a fight, and a bit of desperation, that message gets onto the pitch quick.

On point 2, yes it was good, but not great. League 1 is always mainly lower league sides, with a few fallen giants, and we are still well short of the attendances of the bigger teams in this league. Besides which, wanking over attendances of around 9000 is something the scum do, and it looks absolutely pathetic to fans of other clubs. Its a big gap to the support 2nd tier clubs get nowadays, and that is the league we are aiming to compete in. Come back when we are getting 15000+.

On point 1, unless you are contributing financially in an outstanding way (as in over £3000 a year) then for me there is only 1 way to support.

Back when we got 4500 home fans we had the best home end for support in the 3rd tier (2000-2004).

We need to do something about the fast singing/clapping.

How the hell did that start?!

Agreed.  It's a curse.  Reminds me of the thread we had a week or two back about terrace anthems...rousing tunes you could belt out and make the hair stand up on the back of your neck.  The fast clap is the polar opposite of that.

Fast clappers should be neutered.

It really does my nut.

A song starts up, you join in and before you know it half the stand are about 2 lines ahead.

We can't have that many new followers and surely we still have enough of the old guard to remember how the fuck we sing our songs?

The number of French, American, italian or other foreigners I've taken to town games in league 2 and league 1 over the past few years suggest the atmosphere is better than you get at similar sporting events in those countries.

I don't sing generally, I don't give subbed players a standing ovation unless they deserve it. I don't stand up when pricks demand I do at away games (hate Oxford/love town whatever).

I get really annoyed by people that think singing is the only way to show support especially when they spend more time goading fellow supporters for not singing rather than watching the fucking game.

I think a lot of the old guard gave up when Fitton took over. The last L2 season was their last hurrah. There was a sense of relief, that we were handing over the club to someone proper and it was safe, but also a dismay at the Malpas appointment. I remmember beating Cheltenham 3-0 midweek in absolute silence from the fans. Out of that silence the kids started doing their own thing, which was fast chanting. But there are others who do it who should know better.

When did you start watching Town?

As for the foreigners, it isnt saying a lot. Germany is the only other country that has 3rd tier pro football. The Yanks dont sing, but the excitement of the crowds at their sports events is second to none. Excited and vocal. As you say there is other ways to support than singing, but vocal support is the only real support.

I know there will always be miserable boring gits like you at football and thats why we need standing areas to separate us because we both hate each other.

I liked it when there was a section of support up in the Arkell's right in the face of the away fans... sure there were some idiots, but there was atmosphere up there and was quite entertaining when the games were a little on the shit side.

perfect example of how the CG is outdated, the away fans should not be that near the corporate/dignitaries seats.

I enjoyed a few cup games up there, but it was never going to last. The Arkells grandads cant take that sort of excitement and it was embaressing for the club having things so lively near the corporate seats.

Well then as someone who's too young to be "old guard" and too old to be a fast clapper. I feel duty bound to carry on where they left off. In theory I would love to try and orchestrate some singing but I get so involved in the game, so nervous and analytical that I some times barely notice the singing around me.

This Spencer guy is a cunt.


I've been watching town awhile.

I don't need to spend the whole match taunting Oxford.

I don't need to sing.

I support the town, just quietly.

I'd rather we sang more supportive songs, but the odd Pox chant doesn't do any harm. Trouble is we'll reel off 3 songs in a row that have nothing to do with supporting the team/player..

You like the atmosphere, you like showing your foreign friends the passion, but you dont like contributing yourself because you're above all that. Thats fine. As for taunting Oxford, we put the odd chant in there, but at their place 'we hate Swindon' is their second chant.

There should be standing areas for the fans (supporters), and seats for spectators like yourself. I dont want to be near you, and you dont want to be near me.

Indeed, the very same poster that left the ground with 15 minutes still on the clock yesterday

I think the whole 'fans have to sing or they needn't bother coming' viewpoint is tiresome and needless. All it does is fuel pointless animosity between fans. Its stupid, and has no effect on anything

I've been going since the early 90's. Normally the home games arn't the best for atmosphere, but I think that's the case with a lot of football league clubs nowadays. There are lots of reasons why this is the case. Nowadays what you tend to find is that football fans, generally, are far less patient with their teams/ players/ managers. It's funny looking back at the King days when this club didn't have a penny to its name, had clueless people running behind the scenes, the atmosphere was better then that what it is now. I think a lot of people are disillusioned with football today.

Town End? I was on me own yesterday and a group of about 5 middle aged blokes were stood around me... and 2 or 3 of them left to go to the pub and I was thinking wtf?! One of the dude who stayed was very angry and shouty the whole game...

no mate

DRS

Oh... well I had some similar splitters next to me! They just fucking gave up! Perhaps a wise move in hindsight...

That's a more reasoned response than I expected from your previous posts.

I shout and swear and get vocal. Just don't feel the need to constantly chant.

One of my foreign friends says away at saints last season was better than the azteca for atmosphere.  

It was a special evening.

Fair enough if you get behind the team.

Cant see the point in comparing one game to a stadium though. Must have been a better atmosphere than the WC final in 86 then.

She just said that the antagonism between English fans was nothing like she sees at games in Mexico. It might just be that she'd never seen a thousand odd people jump up and start shouting wanker with associated hand gestures all at once before.

I second this.

I don't know where anyone sits anymore

And Sonic inadvertantly hits the nail on the fucking head.

In the old days Spence would have stood on a terrace, PF sat in the stands with the old men, and everyone would have been content.

But terraces were swept away in what I've always believed was more of an ideological attack than a move based on crowd safetly. Heysel and Hillsborough were the excuse, but all seater stadia were about turning crowds into a collection of individuals. And it's worked brilliantly.

In the old days if you stood on the bank and you wanted to sing you moved down slightly to the left of the goal about halfways down. Your mates knew to meet you there. Now.... unless you all book your tickets together, and with 5-6000 season ticket holders that's pretty unlikely, you're fucked.

The Town End is empty enough for enough of us to get together I think. I sit over in T2 and there's usually enough space around me.

i love away games more than home games because of the atmosphere, but thats hardly saying much considering i sit in the arkells, i'd love to stand in the town end but then that involves sacrificing the view for atmosphere, which isn't always there. Also, i've always sat in the arkells because thats where my dad always took me, and like someone posted recently (Constanza/Rich?) i'm not massively fond of change! I am however considering moving my season ticket to the town end for next season, but then for the same price is it really worth it?  :hmmm:


If i could i'd go to more away games, but most of the time i'm on my pleb because my dad hardly ever comes and all my mates are either rovers fans or not football fans, feel a bit of a loser going on my own!  Should really try and meet some of you lot!!

I stopped singing when I got old.Then I stopped going cos it wasnt much fun anymore and no one I know seems to bother going.Wrong I know and not exactly hardcore but thats the way it is.

Hahahaha.

Unless I cough up a minimum of 3 grand I have no choice but to stand there shouting and screaming.

Well done Spencer.

from someome who has been to league games in mexico, she is talking out of her arse. i have been to plenty and watched rival fans lob fireworks at each other over massive fences.

So its just like going to Orient then?  ???

Honestly, Im not asking a lot. If you look back to the start of my post (thanks for ignoring what Ive been posting), I said well done to the fans in the DRS who caused a bit of a fuss when their player put in a naughty challenge. Makes a change from 90% of the DRS fans sitting in total silence for the entire 90 minutes. Thats setting the bar fairly low?

As for what I said about £3000+, the financial side of football is now almost completely removed from the normal fan. Our ticket prices are subsidised by the board, Im grateful for my £199 season ticket, but I cant say it adds up to much financial support for the club. Id prefer it if clubs could be self sufficient on gate money from the fans, and pay the players less, but I dont want STFC to be like Stockport either.

You could scream and shout all you like, but you would have to get yourself to a Swindon game first?  ;)

I agree with the all seater stadium effect. When I was a lad, my dad used to take me on the Bank, get me a good position at the front so I could see, then bugger off to the back to stand with his mates. I suspect he wasn't the sort to sing and chant all the way through the game, but as many other dads were doing exactly the same, there were obviously a large contingent of middle aged men who could do what they wanted, sing, shout abuse, call each other cunts etc without worrying about their behaviour in front of their kids.
Nowadays, you cant exactly drop your kids off in the family enclosure and go and be "blokes" in the town end, but at the same time, you want to take your kids to get them brainwashed interested in the town and hopefully follow them in the future. There is no compromise as there was 20 years ago.

I like a good shout as the next bloke, but we've got to face facts - football has changed since the 70s/80s, but so has society in general. Football is just mirroring life.

i remember blokes screaming in the faces of others to join in the singing when i was a kid in the shrivvy road stand.
this was at a time when the atmosphere was superb in the ground.

all seater stands has deffo had an effect on the current atmosphere,but so has the awful football dished up.
personally i dont sing anymore.i did last season at away games but not in the arkells at home games.

Unfortunately I Had to go to work !
And you may of misunderstood my original post. I won't be happy with relegation, but I'd rather that than be out of business which was the alternative with that bastard Diamandis in charge.

You need to let it go a bit Phil, otherwise it will eat away at you and you will become even more bitter

or you may just die or something.

Just saying

Nail, head and hit.

I think there was the potential for a half decent atmos saturday, there seemed to be a little bit of a buzz around and the TE seemed pretty busy. But then there was that spell in the first half when we had about 90% possession but it was pretty much all amongst the back four.

I really think this passage of play sucked/sapped all the life out of the crowd and the game never really got going again, hence neither did the crowd.

Its ok to say, well the crowd need to initiate it, but that would take a monumental effort, or some fucker prepared to stand at the front and conduct. There used to be a guy who would do that, I havent seen him for a while mind.

I started going around the mid 80s and the atmos back then in the terraced town end as a 14/15 year old stays with you, believe me.

Finally, saturday I had the (mis)fortune to be stood in front of STFC Gazza and his mates, who managed to make the joke that Grella-grella-grella sound a little like the famous Rhianna song last pretty much the full 90.

I maintain there are for more enjoyable activites for a young man to be doing on a Saturday, especially this season :D

The dawning of a new era!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=24gG9ZweyPc

but they're not in charge anymore. stop living in the past. those days are gone.
we should be building on the now and be aiming higher up the league and not just content with being in business

Not everyone likes wanking as much as you though.

Agree. Come on Phil those days have gone now thankfully. No point in dwelling on them. After all Fitton has been in charge for over 3 years now.

This is so obvious as to be ridiculous. None of us would take winding up over relegation, but it's now pretty irrelevant.

I haven't been to CG for about 5 years now. Living away just means that I don't get so many chances these days. Started going in '89 and was blown away at how good the atmosphere was.... used to stand in the Shrivvy right up close to the away fans - I loved it. Seemed to be loads of different chants being sung in those days - especially used to like the "We are Ossie's/Hoddle's Red and White Army" reverberating between the Shriv and the TE. The "Roger Malone is a wanker song"! was one of my fav's too.
I still remember times when we were shite (?91-92?) and relegation loomed but the vocal support was great. I remember games like ST 5 V 2 Leicester when we really needed the win to avoid relegation. Also when we were really in the doldrums and were losing at home to Cambridge Utd 2 or 3 nil, the crowd in the Shrivvy had such good gallows humour and we still chanted.... ahh the nostalgia...