The 'Sit Down' Pantomime

[Amir]

I think I saw that Amir, do you or your mate have long hair? I was stood 4/5 rows back more towards the middle. Luckily I'm far enough back and in the middle of a "block" so I dont get any shit for standing up.

Mate has, yeah.  I suffer from your problem.

Thinking of trying that thing Graeme Gooch advertises in the paper

[Amir]

Ash, they have been banning people for standing in the Town End - if they're worried about doing something on the night, sometimes they just wait till the next game to give you a warning letter, then ban you if you "reoffend". Although as I understand it they can ban you outright (ie without a warning letter) if they feel you've been especially abusive/violent towards them.

Cheers, Paul.  Was careful with my language, though they took a real disliking to us so I'll keep my head down on Saturday.

On the general point, it's not the club who want no standing in the Town End, it's the Safety Advisory Group who keep reducing the capacity of the Town End cos of standing and threatening to close it all together. They came very close to closing it last December because of people standing in the aisles, but were persuaded to let us (Trust/SC) try giving out leaflets asking people not to block the aisles. It worked and they backed down that time, but it's an ever-present threat.

I understand the reason behind it, I just can't understand why the stewards are so into it when I've never seen them get everyone to sit down.

Has a club ever had a part of their ground shut for standing anyway?  Sheff Utd. maybe? although think that was for hooliganism more than standing, and even then it was just one block.

[richiestfc]

It's utter bollocks!lets face it and im always at the front due to season ticket reasons so always get one of those pointless letters blabbing on about aload of crap!and last night it was an exciting moment when i think in the end it resulted in a corner and the bastard steward kept saying sit down or i will eject you blabla but didn't the say that for exciting moments your allowd to stand???i told him to shuve it were the sun don't shine and got a nice evil look but it really pissed me off! :evil:

[Piemonte]

The stewards and the saftey advisory comitee are jobsworth cunts.

The reality of the situation is that standing may be an offence, but fans up and down the country get away with it week in week out without being threatened to be thrown out , banned or arse raped by pat butcher with a strap on

[Piemonte]

and fatbury..... banning smoking?  :wanker:

Theres a non smoking section in the nationwide if it makes you cry that much

[STFCBird]

The stewards and the saftey advisory comitee are jobsworth cunts.

The reality of the situation is that standing may be an offence, but fans up and down the country get away with it week in week out without being threatened to be thrown out , banned or arse raped by pat butcher with a strap on

    or worse dot cotton

[McLovin]

I have to say, i'm not a fan of second hand smoke be it at football or elsewhere, when its blowing in your face, its fucking horrible, so i can understand where Fatters is coming from.

[sonicyouth]

and fatbury..... banning smoking?  :wanker:

Theres a non smoking section in the nationwide if it makes you cry that much

people still smoke up there though, i used to sit up there with my old man.

i couldn't smoke during the game yesterday as i was sat in the pressbox and it drove me insane, especially when it was so tense for the last 10-15 minutes.

db - i'm going to blow smoke in your face next time i see you

[McLovin]

Booooo...  :x

[BrightonRed]

On the general point, it's not the club who want no standing in the Town End, it's the Safety Advisory Group who keep reducing the capacity of the Town End cos of standing and threatening to close it all together. They came very close to closing it last December because of people standing in the aisles, but were persuaded to let us (Trust/SC) try giving out leaflets asking people not to block the aisles. It worked and they backed down that time, but it's an ever-present threat.

Firstly, I understand fully why the stewards ask people to sit down (because of the threats from the Safety Advisory Group) and I accept that they are employed to do it.

What I don't understand are the safety reasons that are behind the recommendations of the Safety Advisory Group. I don't understand how standing during a match in front of your allocated seat causes a safety issue. If anything a constant sit-down / stand-up routine would be more dangerous.

I would also understand the need to sit-down if it was restricting other people's views but this is obviously not the case in the townend and generally, if you want to stand up you head towards the back of the stand.

If the Stewards could give a legitimate safety reason for not standing then I'm sure a few less people would get irritated by their actions, but they can't.. because there isn't one.

(By the way this isn't a stab at your post Paul.. it's just a follow up)

[pauld]

Realised you weren't having a go Brighton, and I agree with most of what you have to say. Sadly there is no real rationale for the SAG insisting people sit down other than that it's part of the conditions laid down by the FLA (Football Licensing Authority) that people are not allowed to stand in a seated section. And yes you're right, it's a complete nonsense - as you say, having people constantly standing up and sitting down is probably more of a safety issue (although even then it's not exactly dangling over a pit of live crocodiles, is it?). So that's a national requirement which applies to everyone.

But as others have pointed out, whereas other Safety Committees (which are local groups) are a bit more laid back about it, our SAG seems to get peculiarly exercised about it. As to why that should be, well, maybe they don't get out much? Or possibly subliminal revenge for being bullied at school? Christ knows, but as you say, it results in a pointless running confrontation between stewards and perfectly well-behaved fans who just want to watch their team play for no discernible benefit to anyone. And as you rightly say because no-one can really explain how it helps anyone, the explanation as to why fans must sit down ends up boiling down to "Because they say so" which is always going to p**s people off.

Bear in mind these are the same bunch of beaurocrats who are worried about letting kids on the Stratton Bank without a roof in case they get exposed to anything dangerous such as fresh air or weather. And who asked for a risk assessment when the Loud and Proud guys wanted to let off streamers as the players came out of the tunnel. So common sense isn't really a strong point. But ticking boxes, oh, now that they're good at.

[BrightonRed]

Info from the FLA on standing in seated areas..
http://www.flaweb.org.uk/docs/specsafe/pubs/stndinst.php
I'm just reading through..

I like this point already!

"This paper concentrates, however, on persistent standing during the course of the match unrelated to events on the field of play. Spectators may stand persistently for different reasons, some involuntary, some deliberate, for example:
•   they are demonstrating their opposition to the policies of the club or the Government. "


They're clearly on the right train of thought already then...

I didn't realise the townend was such a melting pot of political rebellion.

[BrightonRed]

•   Moreover, spectators standing side by side will, if they can, tend to occupy a greater lateral space (typically 550mm) than those who remain seated (typically 460mm). If the stand is full, standing spectators are likely to spill out into the gangways and vomitories, which become blocked

 :shock:  :?

[Batch]

I've only ever been injured when celebrating a goal. And I am sure that is allowed under SAG rules.

Ban goals I say.

[RobertT]

The FLA refused to accept any arguments for the case for Safe Standing.

The basic safety issue they raise is the amount of space you take-up and thecascading effect of people lurching forward and falling over a seat (knocking the next person down etc), which as yet has never been seen to actually happen.

The remedies they use are to reduce the capacity if they feel a club cannot get it's fans to sit down (which is what has happened at STFC - 1400ish off capacity in 5 years I think).  They can also close down entire rows of seats up to closing a whole stand.

As for what happens to other clubs - if ask around you'll see this happens all over the country.  Many Prem teams have had away allocations slashed because their fans stand at away grounds - Liverpool and Man Utd the main culprits.

Amazingly, the same saftey rules do not apply to any other spectator function, even when using the same ground - note the fact standing was allowed in the Elton John concert.

The FLA has only one reason for this, and that is the old chestnut of football fans being a violent bunch by design.  They refuse to back away from this assertion and have refused to look at the situation despite several requests to do so.

So ultimately, the stewards are only diong what they've been told to do, as are the club (who I think would be pro safe standing).

Clubs that have spoken out against the rules have found the FLA come down hard on any future infringements.