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Author Topic: Northampton v Swindon pre match chat and matchday thread  (Read 11135 times)
Red Frog
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« Reply #30 on: Wednesday, September 15, 2021, 14:24:03 »

Agree with the doubters here. There nothing regressive about the "get it forward fast" argument - it's what most successful Prem sides do: break quickly while the the oppo is out of shape, pass accurately and find players moving into space. You need a) ball-playing skill and b) pace to make it work, but I'd say we have more of that than most in this division. And other teams would press us less high and less hard if they knew we had that option.

It just feels as if they're getting wise to the consistently slow build, as Vale showed so effectively, and if we don't develop another option then we really will have to expect the same outcome as a Luke Williams side.

Still, will give Garner time to see this and act before writing his style off. As FH says, he's still more or less training in pre-season habits right now.
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Pookemon

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« Reply #31 on: Wednesday, September 15, 2021, 14:25:40 »

Starting better would also be a big step forward.  It's only really Stevenage that we've had a decent 1st half display and could have been behind there too.  

1 goal in 6 first halves says it all.
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DiV
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« Reply #32 on: Wednesday, September 15, 2021, 14:44:50 »

Agree with the doubters here. There nothing regressive about the "get it forward fast" argument - it's what most successful Prem sides do: break quickly while the the oppo is out of shape, pass accurately and find players moving into space. You need a) ball-playing skill and b) pace to make it work, but I'd say we have more of that than most in this division. And other teams would press us less high and less hard if they knew we had that option.

It just feels as if they're getting wise to the consistently slow build, as Vale showed so effectively, and if we don't develop another option then we really will have to expect the same outcome as a Luke Williams side.

Still, will give Garner time to see this and act before writing his style off. As FH says, he's still more or less training in pre-season habits right now.

Agree with all of this.

There always has & always will be a difference between aimless hoof ball (And sometimes those are needed) and passing longer/more direct/playing off a targetman.
This modern day notion that trying to emulate 2010 Barcelona is the only way to play football is a crap one at best.

We have to hope Garner is working on a plan b because if he isnít then heís being very naive and weíll probably lose more than we win on account of shooting ourselves in the foot at the back & having no attacking impetus
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« Reply #33 on: Wednesday, September 15, 2021, 14:49:14 »

This modern day notion that trying to emulate 2010 Barcelona is the only way to play football is a crap one at best.


Not really if you have the players with the mind and skills to play it, however, the players with the mind and skills to play it are not going to be knocking about in the English 4th tier going to a club with limited wage resources.

In the main the system seems to be very dependent upon having a couple of centre halves comfortable on the ball and at this level such players are like rocking horse shit!
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Flashheart

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« Reply #34 on: Wednesday, September 15, 2021, 14:51:27 »

I don't think it's the style - more the execution. And I do see intent to get the ball forward quicker but it's not coming off for whatever reason.
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DiV
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« Reply #35 on: Wednesday, September 15, 2021, 15:01:09 »

Not really if you have the players with the mind and skills to play it, however, the players with the mind and skills to play it are not going to be knocking about in the English 4th tier going to a club with limited wage resources.

In the main the system seems to be very dependent upon having a couple of centre halves comfortable on the ball and at this level such players are like rocking horse shit!

If you have the players to do it great. Not many clubs will have the team that Barca had in that period though full stop.

The system is obviously helped by having comfortable on the ball centre backs but falls down if all they are going to do is pass it sideways or at best in the holding midfielders who will probably give it back to them.

The system hinges on midfielder players who can get the ball and keep possession whilst progressing forwards. Thatís what we donít seem to have.

Defence
|
Midfield
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|
|
|
|
|
Attack


...is how we seemingly play and passing around the defence and midfield 25 yards from our own goals is going to beef up our passing/possession stats and nothing else
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Frigby Daser

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« Reply #36 on: Wednesday, September 15, 2021, 15:32:47 »

Iím a get it forward quickly man - preferably on the deck. But for that to work we need our forward players in the box - not just Simpson with the others hanging around just outside the box waiting for a chance recycle the ball after going backwards. That stat about the low number of times we get into the opponentsí box should be a wake up call for Garner.

We never seem able to get up a head of steam against the other team and get the crowd whipped up. Itís all slow it down and start again. Some may like it - I donít. Itís boring.

I think the fact that weíve had 8 or 9k plus crowds and not once generated at atmosphere yet says a lot. Itís flat because the football has been boring. I hope this isnít read as us being ungrateful for the clubís recovery. Not in the slightest. Itís just a bit of a missed opportunity if we donít correct these things.
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RobertT

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« Reply #37 on: Wednesday, September 15, 2021, 16:07:27 »

This all depends on viewpoint about what we are trying to achieve.

If you think we are trying to achieve immediate results and a promotion challenge, then we look a bit short right now.

If you think this is a plan to build a style and structure in the club suited to importing youth talent (either produced by us or farmed from higher up the food chain), with a view to being a success in 18-24 months time given immediate budget challenges and minimal pre-season prep, then I think it has legs.

We were hamstrung for this season and we have some holes in the plan if it was for immediate success - a lack of a good left back (unless it's Critchlow, but Centre Back depth is hampering that), youth talent that is not quite ready, forward talent that has potential but not yet determined where each players best position may be, younger and less experienced centre forward option and so on.

This to me looks like a season where we may be close to the promotion chasers, but without a January  intake we will be a bit short (regardless of style).  So, the style and structure looks designed to ensure the younger players are attracted and develop the way they are used to.

Also, anyone thinking we got promoted under Di Canio thanks to style of play must be a bit nuts.  Yes, he drove them to perform, but the biggest plus point was an endless supply of players and budget until we got the right mix.  Imagine him being told he could only sign a squad of 24 or so, couldn't offer decent wages, and only had a few weeks to make final decisions after which he was stuck with the squad.
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Bob's Orange

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« Reply #38 on: Wednesday, September 15, 2021, 16:20:40 »

This all depends on viewpoint about what we are trying to achieve.

If you think we are trying to achieve immediate results and a promotion challenge, then we look a bit short right now.

If you think this is a plan to build a style and structure in the club suited to importing youth talent (either produced by us or farmed from higher up the food chain), with a view to being a success in 18-24 months time given immediate budget challenges and minimal pre-season prep, then I think it has legs.

We were hamstrung for this season and we have some holes in the plan if it was for immediate success - a lack of a good left back (unless it's Critchlow, but Centre Back depth is hampering that), youth talent that is not quite ready, forward talent that has potential but not yet determined where each players best position may be, younger and less experienced centre forward option and so on.

This to me looks like a season where we may be close to the promotion chasers, but without a January  intake we will be a bit short (regardless of style).  So, the style and structure looks designed to ensure the younger players are attracted and develop the way they are used to.

Also, anyone thinking we got promoted under Di Canio thanks to style of play must be a bit nuts.  Yes, he drove them to perform, but the biggest plus point was an endless supply of players and budget until we got the right mix.  Imagine him being told he could only sign a squad of 24 or so, couldn't offer decent wages, and only had a few weeks to make final decisions after which he was stuck with the squad.

Talking of Left Backs, is it time we tried Iandolo in that position for a sustained period? I know Hunt can play there but could Iandolo be a better option with Hunt as back up?

I was listening to the pre-match presser for Port Vale (I know i'm a bit behind) and Ben Garner was  asked to pinpoint where he saw Iandolo's best position. Garner replied and said that he recognised where his best position was for the club and Iandolo himself, but negated to actually specifically say what the position was.
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« Reply #39 on: Wednesday, September 15, 2021, 17:25:57 »

Talking of Left Backs, is it time we tried Iandolo in that position for a sustained period? I know Hunt can play there but could Iandolo be a better option with Hunt as back up?

I was listening to the pre-match presser for Port Vale (I know i'm a bit behind) and Ben Garner was  asked to pinpoint where he saw Iandolo's best position. Garner replied and said that he recognised where his best position was for the club and Iandolo himself, but negated to actually specifically say what the position was.
Nope, heís definitely not a left as he canít defend. Heís too weak to play in a defensive position both ability wise and physically constantly bottling strong or 50/50 tackles. Iím not sure where his best position is but this season must be make or break as he doesnít seem to be progressing any further and he canít just be a utility player forever.
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Bob's Orange

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« Reply #40 on: Wednesday, September 15, 2021, 17:27:32 »

Nope, heís definitely not a left as he canít defend. Heís too weak to play in a defensive position both ability wise and physically constantly bottling strong or 50/50 tackles. Iím not sure where his best position is but this season must be make or break as he doesnít seem to be progressing any further and he canít just be a utility player forever.

7 seasons he's been at STFC now!
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« Reply #41 on: Wednesday, September 15, 2021, 17:39:13 »

Nope, heís definitely not a left as he canít defend. Heís too weak to play in a defensive position both ability wise and physically constantly bottling strong or 50/50 tackles. Iím not sure where his best position is but this season must be make or break as he doesnít seem to be progressing any further and he canít just be a utility player forever.

Personally I thought he played well in midfield at Scunthorpe, albeit they were not very good
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RobertT

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« Reply #42 on: Wednesday, September 15, 2021, 18:06:45 »

I think Garner wants him to be a central midfielder, but he is still a problem there because he drifts left.  Maybe that positional sense will come with games, but he is running out of time to nail a position down.
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Shrivvy Road

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« Reply #43 on: Wednesday, September 15, 2021, 18:12:37 »

We have lost 1 game in 6 and people are saying things are not working

Madness
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Arriba

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« Reply #44 on: Wednesday, September 15, 2021, 18:14:56 »

We have lost 1 game in 6 and people are saying things are not working

Madness

Agree.

The match day threads have been ridiculous this season even when we've won.
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