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Flashheart

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« Reply #555 on: Wednesday, March 24, 2021, 12:13:39 »

Yeah I think this is the case. So intwined in their culture that guns will always be around. But quite why people see the need to own an Uzi or whatever is the automatic weapon of choice (AR-15) is beyond me.

This dude was talking about anti-tank missiles and the like. PROPER heavy gear.

It's obviously a ridiculous thing to suggest but was the only rebuttal they had to the flaw in their *logic*. (The flaw being that civilians with assault rifles alone cannot beat the army). They'll just use ANY argument, no matter how poor, in favor of people having guns.
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« Reply #556 on: Wednesday, March 24, 2021, 12:16:17 »

There's no point getting upset about it because it's never going to change.
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pauld
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« Reply #557 on: Wednesday, March 24, 2021, 12:29:39 »

There's no point getting upset about it because it's never going to change.
Perhaps not, but worth keeping an eye on because the links between the "libertarian" right in the US and in the UK are extensive, including with links to the gun lobby. Given the recent acceleration of importing trends from the hard right in the US to the UK, it's well worth us being aware of what the consequences of a "libertarian" approach to gun laws are

https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/18086052.boris-johnson-compared-gun-crackdown-dunblane-nanny-confiscating-toys/
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RobertT

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« Reply #558 on: Wednesday, March 24, 2021, 13:24:27 »

This is a tough one - the Constitutional aspect makes it near impossible to move too far on the matter, and while there is certainly plenty of room for debate about what the Framers meant (they added the 2nd Amendment during a time when Arms meant a Musket) you won;t convince the Country to do away with it.  They do have limits imposed on types of weaponry - you can't just purchase a Nuclear weapon for example, so you would think that with public support they could restrict guns like the AR15.  BY and large the public do support such measures.

You really have to live here to appreciate the way the Constitution frames the culture here though - in bad ways, but also in some great ways that creates the type of Country that could become a Super Power and put a Man on the Moon.

I am optimistic that they may get some movement this time - the Democrats have control of all three Houses, which they didn't have in 2013 when trying to get something done (the first real time the public showed it's agreement).  We shall see.
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Berniman
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« Reply #559 on: Wednesday, March 24, 2021, 14:28:12 »

They won't agree with it but the consitution needs ammending to match the times we live in now.  Those that say the constitution cannot be ammended should ask themselves why they are called ammendments.

It will never happen though, well not for anything that they feel so strongly about.  I lived there, and work with and are friends with a lot of Americans - if there is one subject that you can be assured will get an energetic reaction is taking their guns away.  Really level headed great mates turn into absolute nuts if you even dare to breath about the subject.
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« Reply #560 on: Wednesday, March 24, 2021, 18:58:21 »

"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

Definitely outdated, I'm glad there aren't as many militia types in the USA as there could be (i assume they can't read)
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RobertT

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« Reply #561 on: Wednesday, March 24, 2021, 19:21:19 »

It gets very nuanced - Militia here is not what people now describe as Militia for example.  This was prior to the establishment of an Army - there are some that argue that the Army fits the description here and you could actually take everyone else's guns away from them.

Other people take the view that the Militia is simply the civilian population - who would be called up in the event of need, and as such, they should all be able to carry arms just incase they are needed.

It's written with the King in mind - they had just overthrown an oppressive "Government" via armed conflict, they wanted to enshrine something in law that prevented any future Govt. from thinking it was above its Civilians.  That was written before we developed fancy new Arms and technology that essentially pushed the Govt's arsenal well beyond anything you'd expect the common folk to be able to over throw these days.

As with most things described as a Right - taking it away is tough once you have it.  Imagine the NHS being enshrined as a Human Right in UK law, then trying to replace it with Private Healthcare - that gets bad enough press when it isn't a right.

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pauld
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« Reply #562 on: Wednesday, March 24, 2021, 21:28:53 »

And apparently the Court of Appeal in the 9th Circuit (who he?) has just ruled there is no "right to carry" in the US, notwithstanding the 2nd Amendment (because the 2nd Amendment gives citizens the right to bear arms when part of a standing militia, not to take a fucking machine gun to do their shopping)

https://twitter.com/NRA/status/1374768895408680962
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« Reply #563 on: Wednesday, March 24, 2021, 21:39:22 »

And apparently the Court of Appeal in the 9th Circuit (who he?) has just ruled there is no "right to carry" in the US, notwithstanding the 2nd Amendment (because the 2nd Amendment gives citizens the right to bear arms when part of a standing militia, not to take a fucking machine gun to do their shopping)

https://twitter.com/NRA/status/1374768895408680962

That makes it quite awkward when you can pick up a Machine Gun in Trader Joe's   Wink
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« Reply #564 on: Wednesday, March 24, 2021, 23:23:06 »

https://www.facebook.com/roguekite/videos/guntown/1339028342799498/
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« Reply #565 on: Thursday, March 25, 2021, 00:08:03 »


Pretty much knob on!
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