Paris - terrorist attack

[Ironside]

So the media refer to the terrorists as Muslim. What exactly does that achieve? other than encouraging fuckwits like the EDL to roll around in pork fat and jizz on each other, or whatever it is they do.

Those saying the perpetrators are not representative of Islam doesn't mean they're shirking any possible connections.

No. The media and Politicians say they're not NOT Muslim when clearly they are. They say so themselves.

Are you suggesting this is a case of cultural appropriation?

[Ells]

This guy explains it better then I can: http://imgur.com/gallery/aFxN4ut

Having extensively studied cults and the psychology of them that's all that reads like to me.

Marginalised and or naive + someone offering a potential 'solution' + some form of scripture to back it up. (Third part only works if the first 2 are firmly enough in place.)

Could be the Koran, could be the Bible, could be something conjured out of the "bearded guys" (his words) own head.

[Ells]

No. The media and Politicians say they're not NOT Muslim when clearly they are. They say so themselves.

Are you suggesting this is a case of cultural appropriation?

No, I'm asking what you think it would achieve if they did refer to them as Muslim.

[Ironside]

One that that irks me about the debate is that some might choose to affiliate me with certain others in this thread. Fuck that, I'm out.

Don't worry, your points have been noted and have merit and nobody would associate you with anything than being an atheist.

I'm not having a go at Muslims. I'm having a go at the narrative that that the Islamic terrorists are not Muslims.

They are, whether Muslims like it or not.

[Dostoyevsky]

God bless Ironside

We're not all witting or unwitting dopes to the prescribed system.

Thetownend.com has become a coterie of self-defeating blatherers.

No matter what, sense shall prevail.

Consider this, this time last week 128 people were going about their business upon the point of murder, and the narrative in shithole UK is that we need to be tolerant and accepting of our fate. Fuck that, we, ourselves, family and friends need to stand as one diametrically opposed to the plague of Islam. The adherents of the faith are not our companions.

[Flashheart]

No, I'm asking what you think it would achieve if they did refer to them as Muslim.

I can answer that (getting dragged back in again).

The biggest threat to Islamic extremism isn't bomb's and guns, it's moderate Islam. The problem when people say 'they're not true Muslims' is that it is absolving all Muslims, or more importantly Islam, of any responsibility whatsoever. Of course, individual Muslims are not culpable for the fuckwits but Islam itself is at least, partly, to blame.

Allow me to elaborate: In 13 Islamic states the penalty for apostasy is death. This is a STATE SANCTIONED penalty. A penalty which comes from sharia law, which in turn comes from the Quran and the Hadiths. The children there are growing up with the indoctrination that is is OK, even legal, to kill people if they leave the faith. That's setting the bar a tad low where value of human life is concerned, and it's not difficult to see how they might then take the next step and begin dishing out justice themselves. It's not just the killing either, there are other religiously inspired atrocities carried out through much of the Islam world.

Moderate Islam needs to step up and begin to address this problem en mass. Some have tried and been punished severely (see Raif Badawi). It's too big a task, and far too risky, for individuals. It will be difficult, and it will take a long time but until the Islamic community stands up and says 'this shit needs fixing', rather than, 'they're not Muslims, nowt to do with us' then the process wont even begin.

[Ells]

Fair points FH. I'd like to put it on record that I am an anti-theist myself.

That said, Dossy, seeking to understand why people do things is not the same as condoning their actions.. In fact it's vital in that the more you understand, the more likely you are to prevent things from happening again.

It's basically my job

[herthab]

People are fucked up.

[Pete]

It's 2015. In the Islamic calendar it's 1437.

Maybe we could send El Cid or Henry V to sort it out?

[Reg Smeeton]

It's 2015. In the Islamic calendar it's 1437.

Maybe we could send El Cid or Henry V to sort it out?

John Sobieski is yer man, he was King of Poland and Archduke of Lithuania when the Polish Lithuanian Commonwealth held a good chunk of Central Europe.  This Alliance defeated the Musselmen at the gates of Vienna in 1683....just as well really otherwise we could have ended up with Sharia Courts here....oh

[4D]

Shows how feeble the brain really is.

[Boy About Town]

This.

.

[Skinny Pete]

Or this

http://metro.co.uk/2015/11/17/muslim-scholar-tells-isis-terrorist-to-fck-off-and-leave-the-west-alone-5508450/

[Ironside]

I can answer that (getting dragged back in again).

The biggest threat to Islamic extremism isn't bomb's and guns, it's moderate Islam. The problem when people say 'they're not true Muslims' is that it is absolving all Muslims, or more importantly Islam, of any responsibility whatsoever. Of course, individual Muslims are not culpable for the fuckwits, but Islam itself is at least, in part, to blame.

Allow me to elaborate: In 13 Islamic states the penalty for apostasy is death. This is a STATE SANCTIONED penalty. A penalty which comes from sharia law which in turn comes from the Quran and the Hadiths. The children there are growing up with the indoctrination that is is OK, even legal, to kill people because they leave the faith. That's setting the bar a tad low where value of human life is concerned, it's not difficult to see how they might then take the next step and begin doing it themselves. It's not just the killing either, there are other religiously inspired atrocities carried out through much of the Islam world.

Moderate Islam needs to step up and begin to address this problem in mass. Some have tried and been punished severely (see Raif Badawi). It's too big a task for individuals, and far too risky. It will be difficult, and it will take a long time but until the Islamic community stands up and says 'this shit needs fixing', rather than, 'they're not Muslims, nowt to do with us' then the process wont even begin.

So you don't dispute the fact that they are actually Muslims then?

[Dostoyevsky]

Hi Reg,

You are a clearly informed individual and someone who has a comprehensive knowledge of Swindon and its proud history.

Acknowlege me, as someone at the coalface in Croatia, and tell me that my upfront experience of these 'asylum seekers' is misguided. No matter of sympathy will make an iota of difference. They are overwhelmingly deviants who have seen their chance.