Scunthorpes new ground - possibly

[Reg Smeeton]

I think the rough rule of thumb for the cost of building a new stadium is around £1,000 per seat.

Yeah....or a mill per thousand.

[jonny72]

Take 2 sides who historically are a bit smaller than us, but not by much, Bormuff and Roverum.....both have either a new ground or a re-development and get about 10,000 or a bit less in the Championship....I'd imagine we could get something similar if promoted.

What about Brighton and Reading? Think both had similar or lower crowds prior to moving to their new grounds.

With a new ground and additional revenue streams, if you keep the ticket prices down the attendances could increase dramatically.

[Not that Nice If I'm Honest]

Looking at the "satellite view", there's an alarming lack of pubs in the walk-able area.

I'm out

[red sheldon]

Take 2 sides who historically are a bit smaller than us, but not by much, Bormuff and Roverum.....both have either a new ground or a re-development and get about 10,000 or a bit less in the Championship....I'd imagine we could get something similar if promoted.

Surely this shows the need for a larger capacity, Rotherham's new stadium has a 12,000 capacity and this year despite being near the bottom of the league they have averaged 10,259.  Also Bmuff with a 12,000 capacity with 9945 average.  this means that they are operating at 85% capacity.  Bmuff with only up to 2,000 away fans will be missing out on lots of extra tickets from all those Leeds fans wanting to reminisce about trips down on bank holidays to trash the town!  As well as Wolves, Wednesday, Forest, Brighton, Norwich etc.

My thoughts have always been because of the limited size for redeveloping the bank, that this should be given to the home fans and give the new and larger Town End to the away fans when they are replaced to allow all the away fans in one place and have more seats on the side for home fans where they want them  

[Reg Smeeton]

What about Brighton and Reading? Think both had similar or lower crowds prior to moving to their new grounds.

With a new ground and additional revenue streams, if you keep the ticket prices down the attendances could increase dramatically.

Brighton used to get decent crowds at the Goldstone, when things were going OK for them. Reading catchment population is twice that of the Borough of Swindon.

[Ardiles]

As a purely theoretical exercise potential ground capacity is interesting....there really is no evidence from the last 20 odd years to suggest we'd need any more than 15K tops, and even that might be an over estimate.  Space would be better used in facilities rather than capacity.

Take 2 sides who historically are a bit smaller than us, but not by much, Bormuff and Roverum.....both have either a new ground or a re-development and get about 10,000 or a bit less in the Championship....I'd imagine we could get something similar if promoted.

Neither was there for Wigan, or Reading, or Swansea, or Cardiff, or any other club that moved up to the next level via good off field management and promotion.

I'm sure we rehearse these same arguments every six months or so.

[horlock07]

Neither was there for Wigan, or Reading, or Swansea, or Cardiff, or any other club that moved up to the next level via good off field management and promotion.

I'm sure we rehearse these same arguments every six months or so.

We do, and are split between possibly the pessimists and the 'build it and they will come' believers, I suspect reality will be somewhere in the middle.

However can we please take Wigan out of the equation, rugby league town that has no and will never have much interest in football - their crowds for what they were in the premiership were always swelled by the fact that if you lived in the NW and wanted to see a premier game you could always be guaranteed to get in at Wigan - plus its on the west coast main line - I worked in Wigan for 4+ years and no one I knew supported the football team!

[horlock07]

BTW I haven't read any of the link that started this thread, but why the bloody hell do Scunthorpe need another new ground?

I am doing a project just outside Scunthorpe at the moment and it is nowhere near bloody anywhere - site meetings are essentially a bloody day out - although if you do go there, there is a massive Rainham Steel factory - who must be one of the biggest supporters of football in this country over the years considering the advertising hoardings they seem to have at most grounds - have they ever been at the County Ground!

[Reg Smeeton]

Neither was there for Wigan, or Reading, or Swansea, or Cardiff, or any other club that moved up to the next level via good off field management and promotion.

I'm sure we rehearse these same arguments every six months or so.

Yes and I never tire of pointing out the bleeding obvious, like Swansea and Wigan get used for rugby, arguably... certainly in the case of Wigan the bigger sport in the Town.  When Ospreys play Scarlets in the egg chasing local derby, they get just about 20,000.

[Matt71]

Brighton used to get decent crowds at the Goldstone, when things were going OK for them. Reading catchment population is twice that of the Borough of Swindon.

You use readings catchment area as an example but not Swindons catchment area!! Are you trying to say that all town fans come from the Swindon borough.we have a huge catchment area as far as Gloucester to the north west and right down into whiltshire to the south.

[Ardiles]

Yes and I never tire of pointing out the bleeding obvious, like Swansea and Wigan get used for rugby, arguably... certainly in the case of Wigan the bigger sport in the Town.  When Ospreys play Scarlets in the egg chasing local derby, they get just about 20,000.

...all of which has no bearing whatsoever on the average attendances of the football clubs playing on those stadia.

The graph below (bizarrely, back to front) shows Swansea's average attendances over the last 100 years.



Consistently in the 4,000 to 5,000 range from the mid 1980s to the early 2000s.  And then they trebled.

A similar effect was seen in Reading a few years before that.

There is no reason at all why our own attendances would also not see a step change if the fortunes of the club were also to take an upturn.

Edit:
Should have added that the graph is now a few years out of date, and that they're now averaging over 20,000.  Yes, they're in the Prem and, no, I doubt we'll be there ourselves any time soon.  But nevertheless it does illustrate that even a club like Swansea - who were nothing other than a bog standard lower league side for years with crowds well below ours - can transform themselves with a little effort and a little luck.  There is nothing to suggest that Swindon is uniquely incapable of doing this also.  Nothing.

[Reg Smeeton]

...all of which has no bearing whatsoever on the average attendances of the football clubs playing on those stadia.

The graph below (bizarrely, back to front) shows Swansea's average attendances over the last 100 years.



Consistently in the 4,000 to 5,000 range from the mid 1980s to the early 2000s.  And then they trebled.

A similar effect was seen in Reading a few years before that.

There is no reason at all why our own attendances would also not see a step change if the fortunes of the club were also to take an upturn.

No doubt if the CG facilities were upgraded to a 15,000 capacity, then there would be plenty of room for an increase on the current 8,000.

[@mwooly63]

The proposed Scunthorpe stadium is designed upgradable to 18k from the initial 12k

Their current home holds 9183

Average Attendance:
2013-2014: 4,013 (League Two)
2012-2013: 3,465 (League One)
2011-2012: 4,339 (League One)

According to http://www.footballgroundguide.com/scunthorpe_united/

[dalumpimunki]

Take 2 sides who historically are a bit smaller than us, but not by much, Bormuff and Roverum.....both have either a new ground or a re-development and get about 10,000 or a bit less in the Championship....I'd imagine we could get something similar if promoted.

I'm not sure that "historically" either of those two clubs are only "a little smaller than us". I'm pretty sure if you compared our average attendances since say 1960, we'd look significantly bigger.

I don't think either has ever had a period like that Swindon went throught in the60's and early 70's where we regularly had crowds of 15k - 20k.

Compare for example the 1969 season. Swindon vs Rotherham at the CG attracted a crowd of over 23k. The Millmoor away game less than 10k. Swindon vs Bmouth that season a similar story.

OK I'll grant you that was one of our most successful season ever, but the previous season our home game against Bmouth had over 11k while the corresponding fixture had less than 7.5k there. The season before that more than 14.5 thousand at the CG, whereas that lot from Boscombe could drag in a poxy 6.3k. Similar story in 65/66. In the 64/65 season for some reason the home and away games against Rotherham were played on Good Friday, and three days later on Easter Monday. Over 17k turned out at our end, less than 6k at theirs.

Neither of those two have ever played in the top flight, neither have ever won a major trophy. Bournemouth have barely moved out of the third tier in their entire history other than 2/3 season in the 90's in the second division, and their current run.

On the subject of which, they're top of the Championship and they can still barely scrape 10k to 11k. Even for their League Cup quarter final against Liverpool.

I'm pretty sure we'd be attracting more support in that position.


 

[Reg Smeeton]

I'm not sure that "historically" either of those two clubs are only "a little smaller than us". I'm pretty sure if you compared our average attendances since say 1960, we'd look significantly bigger.

I don't think either has ever had a period like that Swindon went throught in the60's and early 70's where we regularly had crowds of 15k - 20k.

Compare for example the 1969 season. Swindon vs Rotherham at the CG attracted a crowd of over 23k. The Millmoor away game less than 10k. Swindon vs Bmouth that season a similar story.

OK I'll grant you that was one of our most successful season ever, but the previous season our home game against Bmouth had over 11k while the corresponding fixture had less than 7.5k there. The season before that more than 14.5 thousand at the CG, whereas that lot from Boscombe could drag in a poxy 6.3k. Similar story in 65/66. In the 64/65 season for some reason the home and away games against Rotherham were played on Good Friday, and three days later on Easter Monday. Over 17k turned out at our end, less than 6k at theirs.

Neither of those two have ever played in the top flight, neither have ever won a major trophy. Bournemouth have barely moved out of the third tier in their entire history other than 2/3 season in the 90's in the second division, and their current run.

On the subject of which, they're top of the Championship and they can still barely scrape 10k to 11k. Even for their League Cup quarter final against Liverpool.

I'm pretty sure we'd be attracting more support in that position.

I'm fully aware of our history 50. 40, 30 years ago, but times change and for a number of reasons our historic support has dwindled....so that you can take a season like 02/03 and find us averaging 5,400 and Bormuff a division below 5,800 and Roverum 7,500.

It's factoring in the our ancient history, which makes me suggest we may be a little bigger than Bormuff and Roverum, this of course has no impact on the modern history which suggest otherwise.

I'm not sure there is some latent pool of fans out there, who are waiting to return, but rather new people who might be attracted...so called plastics.