How Angry?

[leefer]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/defence/10178631/Two-soldiers-die-in-heat-while-training-in-Brecon-Beacons.html

Does a headline like this make you feel,personally it makes me want to ask the idiots who organise these idiotic exercises what planet they really are on.

These lads were not even regular soldiers.

Our year has many days that are suited to training of this nature......the people who took the decision to put these lads through there paces in todays heat need to be brought to book.

Fucking disgusting.

[joteddyred]

Totally agree Lee. This was completely and utterly avoidable.  Surely a degree of common sense from those in charge should have prevailed?

[Flashheart]

Are military exercises supposed to be easy or something?

It's very unfortunate but I can't find myself feeling angry in the slightest.

[DMR]

Completely pointless preparation for those frosty temperatures in Iraq and Afghanistan.

I agree with FH. Blimey.

[Notts red]

Totally agree, A lot of people are struggling with the heat which we're just not used to in this country without doing exercises like that. On a smaller scale there was youth football tournaments this and last weekend when the kids where playing football out in the sun for 4/5 hours, not blaming the organisers for this but any managers/parents expecting the kids to run around in this heat need to have a serious think.

[Flashheart]

Totally agree, A lot of people are struggling with the heat which we're just not used to in this country without doing exercises like that.

Politics aside, should we not send troops overseas on the basis that we're not used to the heat?

The TA aren't just some glorified scout movement. They are a real army reserve that are paid and do get posted overseas. A greater crime would be to send them overseas without the rigorous training.

[Arriba]

Preperation for battles etc has always had death victims. They Dday landing practice exercise at slapton sands had more dead than the actual D day landings themself. More soldiers have killed themselves after Afghan tours than those who have died there in combat.

[Notts red]

Politics aside, should we not send troops overseas on the basis that we're not used to the heat?

The TA aren't just some glorified scout movement. They are a real army reserve that are paid and do get posted overseas. A greater crime would be to send them overseas without the rigorous training.

Yes agree with having them trained up, just seems a waste of young lives clearly pushing them that hard on the hottest day of the year, if it was essential then fair enough but it sounds like no allowance was made for the heat. If they've never served in places like Afgan it will take them weeks to acclimatise wearing full kit but you'll find they don't rush around out there in the mid day sun unless absolutely necessary.

[Batch]

On a smaller scale there was youth football tournaments this and last weekend when the kids where playing football out in the sun for 4/5 hours, not blaming the organisers for this but any managers/parents expecting the kids to run around in this heat need to have a serious think.

Couldn't agree more. We were in Southampton for one last weekend, fairly poorly organised as it happens and were there from 10 until 3.30. But at lest there were long gaps. The mercury tipped 29C! No idea how the kids kept going I was knackered from the sidelines
-----------------------------------------------

Something went pretty wrong with this exercise given two are dead and a third is in a bad way. But its a bit early to point the finger at negligence.

[Flashheart]

Yes agree with having them trained up, just seems a waste of young lives clearly pushing them that hard on the hottest day of the year, if it was essential then fair enough but it sounds like no allowance was made for the heat. If they've never served in places like Afgan it will take them weeks to acclimatise wearing full kit but you'll find they don't rush around out there in the mid day sun unless absolutely necessary.

And you'll find that from time to time it is absolutely necessary. Quite literally a matter of life and death in fact. Not just for those individuals but also for those around them.

[Notts red]

And you'll find that from time to time it is absolutely necessary. Quite literally a matter of life and death in fact. Not just for those individuals but also for those around them.

Yes your right. We'll see what the inquest comes up with.

[Flashheart]

We'll see what the inquest comes up with.

Yep

If it is a case of negligence then it has to be dealt with. It is way too early to be getting angry though.

[Notts red]

Yep

If it is a case of negligence then it has to be dealt with. It is way too early to be getting angry though.

It's more the fact that the Army & Police are saying a full investigation will take place to make sure it doesn't happen again.

[Berniman]

My brother died in an army training accident in 1993, not his fault, somebody else was to blame, but he joined the army knowing that he would be putting his life at risk.  No point in him training in a non realistic environment and then turning up in a conflict and not being prepared.  I would rather they have risked his safety getting him in the best possible shape to be able to survive conflict than send him out there unprepared.  We are always quick to moan when they aren't prepared or don't have the right equipment etc.  Can't have it both ways.  Joining the army is a risky job, don't know the details of this case but sometimes accidents will happen.

[Honkytonk]

As others have said, exercises have to be realistic, or they won't work. Family friend went for five tours in Afghan/Iraq, and was hugely disappointed and angered by the poor training/discipline of certain other nations involved in the coalition. That is all traceable back to their lack of effort in training exercises. It's not exactly arctic in the middle east. As the percentage of part-time professionals in the army increases over the next few years because of cutbacks, it'll be even more important to make sure training is as realistic and useful as possible.

But it is still an exercise - any death has to be taken seriously, as someone was at fault somewhere. Training exercises are so meticulously planned now it's inconceivable that there isn't someone to blame. 'Usual' tactic for training on hot days is to limit water usage, to try and get recruits used to a situation where they have nothing other than what they're carrying. This is important training,and can mean the difference between life and death, but if the right person with the right training or the right judgment isn't in charge, it can be dangerous on extremely hot (for Britain) days like we've had recently. Training like this is generally set for 'normal' temperatures as opposed to the extreme ones we've been having, so the calibration for water intake/limits of heat exhaustion can be set wrong.

So basically- you join the army, possibility of death is always there, no matter where you are, what you're doing. But for it to happen on a training exercise in Britain in the modern era is cause for concern and investigation.