Dorset Red
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« Reply #315 on: Wednesday, May 25, 2011, 15:56:42 » |
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He's never made any anti semetic remark. Why does he have to distance himself from it?
Anti-semitism is part of the very fabric of the Italian fascist movement (read a history book and look at laws passed in 1938 which banned all Jewish people from holding public office). Di Canio is a self-proclaimed fascist. You do the maths!
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Nemo
Shit Bacon
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« Reply #316 on: Wednesday, May 25, 2011, 15:58:44 » |
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To play (slight) devil's advocate, not every supporter of the Labour party agrees with everything the party did in 1938.
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adje
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« Reply #317 on: Wednesday, May 25, 2011, 16:01:29 » |
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As a Town fan I'm worried I wont be welcome at any more Men They Couldn't Hang gigs.
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quot;Molten memories splashing down upon the rooves of Swindon Town"
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herthab
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« Reply #318 on: Wednesday, May 25, 2011, 16:01:42 » |
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Anti-semitism is part of the very fabric of the Italian fascist movement (read a history book and look at laws passed in 1938 which banned all Jewish people from holding public office). Di Canio is a self-proclaimed fascist. You do the maths! No. Anti-semitism was part of the facist movement in Italy. 1938 was a while ago, I don't think di Canio was around then, was he? The man finds some things to admire in Italian facism. I find some things to admire in socialism, but it doesn't make me a communist, or a pro gulag adherent! You can find certain things appealing yet still be repulsed by others, the world isn't made up of black and white. Your math seems to be 2 + 2 = 5.
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adje
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« Reply #319 on: Wednesday, May 25, 2011, 16:04:24 » |
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Agree with that Herthab.Dont want to appear picky though,but could you say "maths" in future?
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quot;Molten memories splashing down upon the rooves of Swindon Town"
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herthab
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« Reply #320 on: Wednesday, May 25, 2011, 16:06:41 » |
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Agree with that Herthab.Dont want to appear picky though,but could you say "maths" in future?
No. One sum is math. Lots of sums are maths.
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Dorset Red
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« Reply #321 on: Wednesday, May 25, 2011, 16:06:50 » |
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No. Anti-semitism was part of the facist movement in Italy. ...and still is. I find some things to admire in socialism,
So do you have a tattoo of Stalin on your back? So if, as you maintain, Di Canio only finds certain things to admire in fascism, would it be too big a deal for him to say that he opposes anti-Semitism? Let him publicly distance himself from those parts of fascism he finds repulsive, we can stop arguing, and I can renew my season ticket.
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« Last Edit: Wednesday, May 25, 2011, 16:10:07 by Dorset Red »
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Dorset Red
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« Reply #322 on: Wednesday, May 25, 2011, 16:12:05 » |
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To play (slight) devil's advocate, not every supporter of the Labour party agrees with everything the party did in 1938.
True. Your point being? (incidentally when exactly was it that the Labour party, or any other modern British government passed anti-Semitic legislation?)
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herthab
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« Reply #323 on: Wednesday, May 25, 2011, 16:14:11 » |
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...and still is. So do you have a tattoo of Stalin on your back?
Show me where di Canio has stated he is anti-semetic? I think you need to delve a lot deeper before considering yourself an expert on Italian facism: Italian Fascism's position on the Jews was much more complicated than this would suggest. Until 1938, when Mussolini bowed to German pressure and enacted an Italian version of the infamous Nuremberg laws, Fascist ideology was free of any elements of anti-Semitism, and the party's membership rolls were open to Jews, who joined in roughly the same proportion to their numbers as non-Jews. More than 200 Jews participated in the 1922 march on Rome, which installed Mussolini in power. Jews who achieved prominence under Fascism included Aldo Finzi, a member of the first Fascist Grand Council; Guido Jung, Minister of Finance from 1932 to 1935; and Maurizio Rava, Governor of Italian Somaliland and a general in the Fascist militia. In World War II, Mussolini steadfastly refused to surrender Italian Jews to the Germans for deportation, and it was only after his overthrow in July 1943 and the subsequent German occupation of Italy that mass roundups began. In the Italian-occupied areas in Southern France and Croatia, as Goebbels bitterly noted in his diaries, the local Jews enjoyed military protection against Nazi efforts to deport them. the Jewish survival rate in Italy in World War II was among Europe's highest.
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Dorset Red
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« Reply #324 on: Wednesday, May 25, 2011, 16:22:35 » |
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Show me where di Canio has stated he is anti-semetic?
At a meeting with survivors of the German death camps whilst a Lazio player, Di Canio (and others) heard what happened to the Jews during the war. At no point did he dennounce the actions of German Nazis or their Italian allies and collaborators. His bland statement that all sides did bad things served only to deflect attention away from his position. When asked about his politics on Five Live the other day, he again dodged the question. The man is tainted by his own refusal to distance himself from anti-Semitism. With regard to your "research" on fascism, try reading something other than the first New York Times article you find. Maybe you start with Tobias Jones' book "The Dark Heart of Italy" which is very telling about the current state of politics in Italy, and particularly revealing about the modern Italian fascist movement.
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« Last Edit: Wednesday, May 25, 2011, 16:25:39 by Dorset Red »
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sheepshagger
Suburban Capitalist........
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« Reply #325 on: Wednesday, May 25, 2011, 16:23:12 » |
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Dorset - it's YOUR point that has stopped making sense I am afraid !!
Why should PDC distance himself from anything ? Why should he come out with a political statement just to make a very small (minded) number of people happy ?
He made a couple of salutes to 50,000 Lazio fans that were doing it to him - get over it !!
He said his political leanings were towards fascism - get over it !!
He never said however that he hates jews, blacks, gays, Indians, Arabs, Welsh, Scottish or Uncle Tom Cobbley - had he openly said that I would say you have a point - for me you just don't
He also never said that he thought Mussolini was right - he said he admired certain things about the man - I admire certain things about Hitler - does that make me a Nazi ? Of course it doesn't - that would be a fundamentally stupid thing to say !!
When someone has NOT said something it doesn't mean he thinks yes or no on that particular subject - the fact is we do not know what he thinks about a lot of things - and that is the way it should be !
Unfortunately you are taking this and saying he should say something about it - why should he ? It's none of your business to know what he privately thinks. His statements about politics have not been clear cut at all - but as Herta said you are taking 2+2 and making up random numbers to try and support your argument....
Sorry - for me you are just plain wrong on this one - you can and have made up your mind and that's fair enough - but every time you try to justify it you sound more desperate
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Wise men say........
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BANGKOK RED
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« Reply #326 on: Wednesday, May 25, 2011, 16:29:20 » |
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At a meeting with survivors of the German death camps whilst a Lazio player, Di Canio (and others) heard what happened to the Jews during the war. At no point did he dennounce the actions of German Nazis or their Italian allies and collaborators. His bland statement that all sides did bad things served only to deflect attention away from his position.
When asked about his politics on Five Live the other day, he again dodged the question. The man is tainted by his own refusal to distance himself from anti-Semitism.
He has publicly stated in his autobiography that he found the actions of Mussolini vile. What's that? Deja vu?
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herthab
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« Reply #327 on: Wednesday, May 25, 2011, 16:34:04 » |
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At a meeting with survivors of the German death camps whilst a Lazio player, Di Canio (and others) heard what happened to the Jews during the war. At no point did he dennounce the actions of German Nazis or their Italian allies and collaborators. His bland statement that all sides did bad things served only to deflect attention away from his position.
When asked about his politics on Five Live the other day, he again dodged the question. The man is tainted by his own refusal to distance himself from anti-Semitism.
With regard to your "research" on fascism, try reading something other than the first New York Times article you find. Maybe you start with Tobias Jones' book "The Dark Heart of Italy" which is very telling about the current state of politics in Italy, and particularly revealing about the modern Italian fascist movement.
Yes, the internet is a wonderful place, you can find lots of research to help you prove, or disprove anything! The point isn't what happen in 1938, or 1943. It's whether a person should be vilified for what he may, or may not, agree with. He has facist sympathies, that he admits. He has never openly espoused racist, or anti semetic views, that is your interpretation. Until he does, he's not really done anything, has he? Judge the man, not your blinkered view of him.
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Dorset Red
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« Reply #328 on: Wednesday, May 25, 2011, 16:35:54 » |
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Dorset - it's YOUR point that has stopped making sense I am afraid !!
Why should PDC distance himself from anything ? Why should he come out with a political statement just to make a very small (minded) number of people happy ? If it is small minded to appose fascism then I am guilty as charged. He never said however that he hates jews... But the Italian fascist movement has form in this regard. If you choose to stand in poo you end up smelling. He also never said that he thought Mussolini was right - he said he admired certain things about the man - I admire certain things about Hitler - does that make me a Nazi ? Of course it doesn't - that would be a fundamentally stupid thing to say !! So he just had the MASSIVE tatto of Il Duce put on his back becasue he sort of quite likes a few things he did? Get real, or are you off to get and Adolf Hitler tattoo this weekend? When someone has NOT said something it doesn't mean he thinks yes or no on that particular subject - the fact is we do not know what he thinks about a lot of things - and that is the way it should be ! Normally I would agree with you, but Di Canio HIMSELF made politics an issue when he brought it onto the pitch by giving the fascist salute on at least three occasions that I know of. By very publicly associating himself with an organisation that is known to have anti-Semitic elements, he owes it to Jewish supporters (and anybody else who claims to despise anti-Semitism) to make his position clear. Why do you find this so difficult?
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sheepshagger
Suburban Capitalist........
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« Reply #329 on: Wednesday, May 25, 2011, 16:39:26 » |
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I have to go out now - but I am dumbfounded by your post - I will reply later....
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Wise men say........
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