New Town Boss to be Announced Next Wednesday

[pauld]

The problem is that when certain individuals think of Fascism they immediately think it's the same as Racism and Nazsim.

It all comes down to knowing how to distinguish between the two.

Not anyone on here. Unless you're talking about the Italian neo's who do seem to blur the two quite a bit, which was kind of the point, if you'd read what was posted properly

[jonny72]

Not anyone on here. Unless you're talking about the Italian neo's who do seem to blur the two quite a bit, which was kind of the point, if you'd read what was posted properly

Maybe you need to read what's been posted properly. Even if it hasn't been said explicitly (and I think it has) there has been a very strong suggestion that Fascism is the same thing as Nazism and everything that entails and that Di Canio is a Nazi and racist by implication. The arm salute being referred to as a Nazi symbol for example.

[leftside]

Maybe you need to read what's been posted properly. Even if it hasn't been said explicitly (and I think it has) there has been a very strong suggestion that Fascism is the same thing as Nazism and everything that entails and that Di Canio is a Nazi and racist by implication. The arm salute being referred to as a Nazi symbol for example.

According to the OED:

One of a body of Italian nationalists, which was organized in 1919 to oppose communism in Italy, and, as the partito nazionale fascista, under the leadership of Benito Mussolini (1883–1945), controlled that country from 1922 to 1943; also transf. applied to the members of similar organizations in other countries. Also, a person having Fascist sympathies or convictions; (loosely) a person of right-wing authoritarian views. Hence as adj., of, pertaining to, or characteristic of Fascism or Fascists.

Nazism was the German/ic form of fascism espoused by the NSDAP and specific to German/ic. The BUF was similarly primarliy concerned with British issues.

Any 'extreme', nationalist, authoritarian regime that is successful tends to become totalitarian and undemocratic, spreads fear and creates divisions within society in order to strengthen its own position. It therefore becomes difficult to displace democratically and without social upheaval. The totalitarian nature of the regime means that the views of 'others' officially become 'anti' views and are therefore subject to ridicule, censure and prohibition. All aspects of society become politicised - the arts, education, law, local government, health - becomes infected with the ideology of the regime. Liberalism, free speech and thought, rationalism, and the mechanisms to voice them, are supressed.

I'm not into fascism and I'm not into fascists. Even if they might bring a bit of passion to the football team I support.

[BANGKOK RED]

Leftside

This discussion so much about what fascism means per say. Rather, as johnny post that you have quoted specifically states, it is about a fascist must also be a Nazi/racist.

The text you added here has no mention of either, so I'm not quite sure what you are trying to achieve.

[pauld]

Rather, as johnny post that you have quoted specifically states, it is about a fascist must also be a Nazi/racist.

Which is redefining the debate. I've not argued that, nor has Lumps. We've suggested that the Lazio Ultras are demonstrably Nazi/racist, and the question is whether Di Canio, an acknowledged fascist from the Lazio Ultra tradition, also endorses this. You and others feel he hasn't, Lumps and I others feel it stretches the bounds of credibility.

EDIT: and tbh I also find the idea that he's "only" someone who openly espouses fascism fairly obnoxious but it's not where the discussion's been centred

[BANGKOK RED]

Actually Paul

I think that myself and other people are just trying to say that there is not enough to condemn the man. Which does not stretch the boundaries of credibility in the slightest.

It's those who seem so opposed to a political belief that is different from theirs that are claiming the man is definitely a racist, despite there being evidence to the contrary.

[pauld]

Actually Paul

I think that myself and other people are just trying to say that there is not enough to condemn the man. Which does not stretch the boundaries of credibility in the slightest.

That's fair enough. My apologies for having misrepresented you, I didn't intend to, was primarily objecting to jonny/mrverve recasting the debate in a way that did misrepresent what the Di Canio nay-sayers have been mainly arguing. Oh, the irony

[jonny72]

Which is redefining the debate. I've not argued that, nor has Lumps. We've suggested that the Lazio Ultras are demonstrably Nazi/racist, and the question is whether Di Canio, an acknowledged fascist from the Lazio Ultra tradition, also endorses this. You and others feel he hasn't, Lumps and I others feel it stretches the bounds of credibility.

Whether intended or not, certain posts on this thread read that Di Canio is a Fascist and that that is the same as being a Nazi. It's making some jumps in logic which simply aren't there, or at least connections which I haven't seen. He has stated he's a Fascist, but exactly what that means in general and especially to him is open to debate.

Whilst Di Canio has a strong association with the Lazio Ultra's I haven't seen anything to suggest he fully supports their Fascist ideologies, rather the opposite as he has condemned the extremes. For me the question is the nature of the association, is it due to him growing up with them and viewing them as family or because he agrees with their ideology?

[pauld]

Whilst Di Canio has a strong association with the Lazio Ultra's I haven't seen anything to suggest he fully supports their Fascist ideologies, rather the opposite as he has condemned the extremes. For me the question is the nature of the association, is it due to him growing up with them and viewing them as family or because he agrees with their ideology?

He went on record after the second salute photo as saying "I am a fascist, not a racist". I don't think you could find a clearer statement than that that he supports fascist ideology? There's no debate as to whether he's a fascist, he's repeatedly said so himself, the only question is whether he also lines up with the neo-Nazis he was saluting.

[jonny72]

I'm not disagreeing with that. I think we're saying the same thing, is he a Fascist or a Lazio Ultras Fascist?

They're two different things for me, though some people seem to think they are one and the same.

[Reg Smeeton]

I'm not disagreeing with that. I think we're saying the same thing, is he a Fascist or a Lazio Ultras Fascist?

They're two different things for me, though some people seem to think they are one and the same.

So when they come knocking on your day, will you have a debate..."excuse me are you a Fascist or a Nazi?" 

[Simon Pieman]

So when they come knocking on your day, will you have a debate..."excuse me are you a Fascist or a Nazi?" 

That reminds me of those bastard Jehovah Witnesses that knock on your door. A couple of weeks ago I stood there arguing with the patronising cunt for 45 minutes.

[otanswell]

That reminds me of those bastard Jehovah Witnesses that knock on your door. A couple of weeks ago I stood there arguing with the patronising babe for 45 minutes.

Do what i do and ask them if they want a blood transfusion for christmas, they always bite

[melksham_exile]

I like turtles

[BANGKOK RED]

I prefer tortoises.