QPR possible points deduction friday

[mrverve]

Have you not met the FA before?

They're fecking useless.

I mean QPR signed the player back in the summer 2009. They're taking the piss.

One theory is that the FA are waiting until after the game on Saturday so they can deduct as many points as possible without affecting QPR's promotion.  The play-offs havent been postponed so I wouldn't think it would be too much of a points deduction.

[Ardiles]

If they were to deduct enough points from QPR to take them out of the top 2, the resulting legal battle would be so messy that I doubt the FA have the bottle to pursue this.  Tackling us in 1990 was one thing; taking on Ecclestone and Mittal in 2011 is quite another.

I would very surprised if QPR were not lining up in the Prem next season.  From Cardiff's perspective, it's a stinker as well...a nasty distraction as they try to prepare for the play offs.

[thepeoplesgame]

If they were to deduct enough points from QPR to take them out of the top 2, the resulting legal battle would be so messy that I doubt the FA have the bottle to pursue this.  Tackling us in 1990 was one thing; taking on Ecclestone and Mittal in 2011 is quite another.

I would very surprised if QPR were not lining up in the Prem next season.  From Cardiff's perspective, it's a stinker as well...a nasty distraction as they try to prepare for the play offs.

Don't lose too much sleep over Cardiff, Ossie...

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2011/may/05/cardiff-city-qpr-third-party-ownership

[pauld]

If they were to deduct enough points from QPR to take them out of the top 2, the resulting legal battle would be so messy that I doubt the FA have the bottle to pursue this.  Tackling us in 1990 was one thing; taking on Ecclestone and Mittal in 2011 is quite another.

Yep, been saying this all along. I think DRS might be near the money - as big a points deduction as they can do without actually changing anything this season and start next season on -5 or something. Can't see it being as big as -10, again for same reason

[pauld]

Don't lose too much sleep over Cardiff, Ossie...

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2011/may/05/cardiff-city-qpr-third-party-ownership

That's completely the wrong way round. Instead of bringing them under FA jurisdiction to solve the English League/Welsh FA split, they should keep them under FAW and make them play mouthwatering derbies against Llanridstod in the Welsh Prem

[Summerof69]

I had a thought last night, once the FL said that the PO's will go on as normal,that instead of taking points off QPR is that they will 'demote' them like they did to us in 1990, and instead of promoting one of the other Championship sides, they'll keep up the side that finishes 18th in the Prem.

Probably the less messy scenario in regards to appeals, etc.

[Nemo]

I had a thought last night, once the FL said that the PO's will go on as normal,that instead of taking points off QPR is that they will 'demote' them like they did to us in 1990, and instead of promoting one of the other Championship sides, they'll keep up the side that finishes 18th in the Prem.

Probably the less messy scenario in regards to appeals, etc.

If the team that finished 18th were West Ham, that would be sensationally funny and send Warnock into full on unhinged rant mode.

[Brian_Rice_no1]

Hey fellas, I'm a Forest supporter and came to read your views on this and you all seem to be split on it, a bit like us, not knowing what the FA will do is becoming a bit tiresome with all the conjecture out there, after what happened to you in 1990 I personally feel QPR need to lube up and expect a shafting.

This has been found and might give some of you more of a perspective of what they may face.

QPR Points Deduction Research

It seems* to me that the whole QPR points deduction scenario is* one coloured by uncertainty about what the implications* would if a points deduction were imposed and to that* end, depending on which camp you're in, whether* you're an optimist or pessimist, or whether you are* prone to clutching at straws will determine how you* view the scenario.

Most people, I think sensibly, have* adopted the bury the head in the sand philosophy and* will wait and see with everyone committing to* "getting as many points as we can".

Before* our game with QPR on Saturday the BBC were reporting* that they "understood" that QPR will* ultimately be fined and not face a points deduction,* and indeed the QPR spin machine has been engaging in a* full on assault since the charges were brought to push* the message that they would not be getting a points* deduction.

I must confess to have only taking a* passing interest in the QPR story when it broke in* March, but as we reach the climax of the season my* interest was piqued and I have spent several hours* researching the allegations, reading the FA website,* reading news reports and reading blog reports of* several fan websites including our own, QPR's and* Crystal Palace's who's fans have taken great* interest in the plight of their local rivals,* particularly after their own points deduction last* season.

My conclusions should give QPR fans real* concern and should only lead to one possible outcome,* and are as follows:

1. The charges faced by QPR are extremely serious and* are fundamentally two-fold. That they broke third party* player ownership rules that were clearly established* and made clear to all clubs after the Tevez affair, and* that (in my view more seriously) they then attempted to* cover up this breach in October 2010 by submitting* falsified documents to the FA.

2. Alot of people* compare the QPR situation to West Ham's with Tevez,* however when charged West Ham held their hands up* immediately and many feel this helped them avoid a* points deduction, plus there was never any real* suggestion of attempted fraud, ultimately it was found* that they had broken the rules but, lets say, they had* perhaps been naive of the rules. QPR on the other hand* have refuted the claims the FA have brought (which as* we have seen with Rooney recently doesn't go down* well with the FA), and we have the added issue of an* attempted fraud.

3. This fraud element moves this (in* my view) into a very different scenario and one which* people haven't suggested as a comparison, but here* goes 1990 Swindon Town. If you're not old enough to* remember Swindon won promotion from what became the* Championship to what would become the Premier League* via the play-offs but were found guilty of making* illegal payments to players and a few weeks later were* relegated two divisions by the FA this was later* reduced to a one division relegation and they found* themselves back in the Championship.

4. It is this* precedent that I feel will mean that QPR will face a* points deduction at least. Many people have said that the FA have screwed up by* delaying the decision until the last week of the* season, I think this is entirely deliberate and is* ultimately the right way to have handled this -* consider the Swindon example from 1990. The charges* against Swindon were identified well before the end of* season playoffs but the FA sensibly allowed the season* to run its course with all teams trying their best.* Some might say it was cruel to Swindon fans to let them* experience promotion however had they lost the playoffs* presumably they would have been relegated to what* became League One, instead of back to the Championship* i.e the faced a one division relegation as their* penalty regardless of how they finished up. I think the* FA are using this as a precedent, to give no indication* of a points deduction so that all teams play to their* potential without bringing the integrity of this* Championship season into question. QPR may need to gain* promotion to the Premier League in order that they are* relegated back to the Championship and not League One* as with the Swindon case.

5. Consider if QPR had been* given a 10 point, 30 point or even a relegation as a* punishment announced in March. How would this have* affected their own players approach to remaining* matches and what impact would that have had on the* points earned by the teams they later played who could* have had an unfair advantage playing against a team* that had psychologically imploded. Far more sensible to* delay any announcement so that everyone assumes no* points will be deducted, so the chasing pack give it* their all and assume that 3rd place misses* auto-promotion, and 7th place misses the play-offs.* This would ensure that no one can have any complaints* of unfair advantage when a decision is made.

6. Also if a relegation is the penalty imposed then if* this had been announced in March it would have meant* QPR would have had to gain promotion to the Premier* League to ensure they stayed in the Championship. This* would clearly be an intolerable position to put them in* at that time or indeed for the other clubs so the FA,* by delaying the decision, have ensured the integrity of* the season, and also giving a massive hidden clue that* a points deduction at least is guaranteed. Consider the* alternative, if it was just a fine then impose it now,* why wait?

7. Points deductions are imposed for far less* serious offences. A club going into administration,* which mostly happens due to mismanagement and not fraud* guarantees a 10 point deduction. Luton Town were* deducted 10 points for illegal agent payments and a* further 20 points for issues around their* administration status. This effectively relegated them* out of the Football League! QPR should be looking at a* minimum 10 point penalty plus an additional penalty for* attempting to deceive the FA. The treatment of Luton* Town demonstrates that the FA will impose the rules* ruthlessly regardless of the implications to the* punished club. Hereford and Torquay were deducted 3* points and 1 point respectively for each fielding an* illegible player in their match on 1st February. This* was the day after the transfer window closed and* basically resulted from clerical errors in the form* filling process of players signed in the last few hours* of the transfer window. So a @#$% up, not fraud, but* resulted in points being docked. If QPR don't get a* points deduction for what they have done then it will* fly in the face of the precedent set down to all other* clubs.

8. In summary then I believe QPR will face something* like a 30 point penalty deduction, as that is the scale* of the seriousness of the offences, which assuming they* fill one of the top two slots will equate to a* relegation. All this talk of legal cases are a smoke* screen. The FA have QPR bang to rights and determining* the penalty is all that needs to be agreed. They are* going to take a very dim view of the attempt to deceive* them, as they did with Luton Town.

A 30 point* deduction would place QPR out of even the play off mix,* allowing for the playoffs to proceed unhindered.

[mrverve]

I had a thought last night, once the FL said that the PO's will go on as normal,that instead of taking points off QPR is that they will 'demote' them like they did to us in 1990, and instead of promoting one of the other Championship sides, they'll keep up the side that finishes 18th in the Prem.

Probably the less messy scenario in regards to appeals, etc.

I don't think the FA would do that. They're going to deduct points I reckon.

Worst case scenario for QPR would be losing the title and starting next season on -5 or -10.

[pauld]

Good article that. You're a star *

[Ardiles]

That's an interesting theory.  Hadn't thought of that.  Time will tell.

[mrverve]

Good read that.

It would be interesting to see if they were deducted 30 points how the whole play-off thing would work, with what teams etc. Would all the clubs under QPR just jump up a place meaning Leeds Utd would get into the play-offs and Cardiff getting the 2nd automatic place? Or like Summerof69 said and just have the 2 teams promoted from the Championship. Intriguing...

[Batch]

Good read that.

It would be interesting to see if they were deducted 30 points how the whole play-off thing would work, with what teams etc. Would all the clubs under QPR just jump up a place meaning Leeds Utd would get into the play-offs and Cardiff getting the 2nd automatic place? Or like Summerof69 said and just have the 2 teams promoted from the Championship. Intriguing...

Nah, 30 points means just that. Take off 30 points and re-adjust the league accordingly. In that case Milwall and Burnley would still have outside chances of pipping Leeds.

The interesting one is if they were to be relegated as direct punishment, not through points deduction. Like we were in 90. Won't happen though.

[dell returns]

Good post Brian Rice, will print that out and post it to a couple of my mates who are smug QPR fans.

[ghanimah]

Nah, 30 points means just that. Take off 30 points and re-adjust the league accordingly. In that case Milwall and Burnley would still have outside chances of pipping Leeds.

The interesting one is if they were to be relegated as direct punishment, not through points deduction. Like we were in 90. Won't happen though.

If they get relegated instead of a points deduction can we still call you Susan?