Brian Cox

[Batch]

Oh yes, the age old religion vs. science debate. I don't think even the might of TEF is up for solving this one.

I'll solve it.

Religion is irrelevant in the grand scheme of things, though clearly not to an individual. Given the tertiary nature of evidence of religion, it can only be relied on as at best providing guiding principles. Lets pretend its true. On the day of reckoning how will we be judged at the pearly gates? Given the reliability of evidence available, God only knows, quite literally.  So why bother to second guess, live by your own morals and see what happens.

Science is good, mostly.

In summary: Being religious is akin to being an English literature undergraduate. Lots of people get enjoyment/worth out of it, but its all guesswork unless the author is alive and talking.

Now that's solved has anyone wrapped their heads around the universe dissolving into nothingness yet?

[BANGKOK RED]

Now that's solved has anyone wrapped their heads around the universe dissolving into nothingness yet?

Define nothingness

[Batch]

Define nothingness

The absence of something

[jayohaitchenn]

What if the something is impossible to directly detect? ie, Higgs field, dark matter, dark energy.

[Batch]

What if the something is impossible to directly detect? ie, Higgs field, dark matter, dark energy.

I don't know. Its too difficult.

[london_red]

Religion is irrelevant in the grand scheme of things, though clearly not to an individual. Given the tertiary nature of evidence of religion, it can only be relied on as at best providing guiding principles. Lets pretend its true. On the day of reckoning how will we be judged at the pearly gates? Given the reliability of evidence available, God only knows, quite literally.  So why bother to second guess, live by your own morals and see what happens.

Like that, basically a reworking of Pascal's Wager. Richard Dawkins makes a similar point in The God Delusion

"Suppose we grant that there is indeed some small chance that God exists. Nevertheless, it could be said that you will lead a better, fuller life if you bet on his not existing, than if you bet on his existing and therefore squander your precious time on worshiping him, sacrificing to him, fighting and dying for him, etc."

[Batch]

Like that, basically a reworking of Pascal's Wager. Richard Dawkins makes a similar point in The God Delusion

Yeah, that's exactly the look I was going for (and definitely not based of the sentiments of James' song God Only Knows. Erm..er.).

I'm off to google Pascal's Wager.

[sonicyouth]

On the subject of anti-religious songs, XTC's Dear God is by far the best.

[Batch]

On the subject of anti-religious songs, XTC's Dear God is by far the best.

Depeche Mode's Blasphemous Rumours would be mine.

Sorry for derailing the thread.
--------------------------------------------------------
Back on topic, I found the Brian Cox thing on BBC2 very interesting. I think the theory behind what he said was a bit beyond my understanding. But if I take it as "fact" (which it may not be) without understanding then it pretty engaging stuff.

My favourite bit was when he emphasised how much of a particle of dust on the time-line of the universe we really are. We are used to thinking in century's and millennium when taking of humanities history. A small period of all life on Earth.

But against the backdrop of the creation and demise of the universe, well its beyond normal thinking. We really are 'lucky' to be right here and right now.

OK its all obvious stuff, irrelevant to day to day life. But its stuff I don't normally think about except maybe when looking out to space on a clear night.

[Benzel]

On the subject of anti-religious songs, XTC's Dear God is by far the best.

Mine is Godpuppet by The Haunted.

"Look who he left in charge: the ill-conceived bastard son..."

Space is something I've been fascinated by since I was kid. It boggles my mind and reading BC the other day in the paper talking about how one day in some inconceivable amount of time the Universe is going to just vanish blew my mind. Ok it's not 100% fact but the thought of it is just incredible. I just don't get how the components that eventually led to the creation of planets, suns etc got there in the first place..

[Saxondale]

I wasn't going to join in with this cos I really am not a scientist, and could never get beyond arithmetic in Maths!  But with GKN's wind up, I now can't resist.....  All I would say is don't just discount or poo hoo the religious stuff.  Whatever may be argued about specific belief systems and teachings of various religious traditions, the fact is that human beings have had the religious instinct within their make-up since for ever.  It may just be some wild, uncontrollable gene which desperately searches for an answer to everything even to the point of irrationality...but it may not.  You might be surprised (or not) at how many of our premier scientists worldwide not only retain their faith but actually find it strengthened by their scientific exploration...on the basis that the more knowledge that is gained, the more remarkable and mysterious the world/universe becomes.

You know it was a joke, right?

[Highland Robin]

Yea...but why not stir them all up...there have been good debates on here before!!!  And i really don't like cox or most religious people (whatever my occupation may be)!!

[Lumps]

What are you waffling on about?

However, I agree there are weak similarities between science and religion.
Take the Large Hardon Collider for example, billions have been spent to create this fucking thing to search for something (Higgs Boson, or the aptly named God Particle) that may or may not exist.
In the same vein, people who are religious believe in god, and live their life by him, and he may or may not exist.

Of course people are searching for answers all the time, about their existence and origin, but this has fuck all to do with religion.

I think you've described the massive difference between science and religion and completely failed to notice it. CERN has built the LHC specifically to test to destruction the Standard Model of particle physics.

It's the model that all particle physicists now working believe to be true, and it's largely derived from mathematical modelling, tested through experimentation and observation.

For the model to work, (and there still be mass in the universe, which clearly there is), there has to be a Higgs field, and therefore a Higgs particle. They've built this huge fucking thing to accelerate particles with sufficient energy to one and for all demonstrate the existence of the thing.

The difference is that if they don't identify one, then the model will fail, they'll screw it up and start again.
So whilst the existence of the HB particle is open to question, it is disprovable, and the people that believe in it are going to a lot of trouble to do that disproving, and if disproved, they'll stop believing it.

Try that with a theist some day and see how far you get.

[BANGKOK RED]

Wonders of the universe episodes now on youtube

[leefer]

http://dundalk.patch.com/articles/rare-super-moon-rising-tonight

Just looked,does look rather magnificent.

Should look even better later on.