Professional Fouls

[jonny72]

I have this vague recollection that in the not too distant past a professional foul (cynical, no intent to play the ball, deliberately taking a player out and similar sort of stuff) would warrant a red card no matter where it was on the pitch, or how many defenders were in the way.

Did I imagine this?

[reeves4england]

I have this vague recollection that in the not too distant past a professional foul (cynical, no intent to play the ball, deliberately taking a player out and similar sort of stuff) would warrant a red card no matter where it was on the pitch, or how many defenders were in the way.

Did I imagine this?

Yes, you did.

[pauld]

No you didn't

The concept was introduced in association football after an infamous incident in the 1980 FA Cup Final when Willie Young of Arsenal committed a deliberate foul on Paul Allen of West Ham, when Allen had a clear run at goal. As the laws of the game stood, the referee (George Courtney) could only award West Ham a free kick, which he did. This provoked a national debate on deliberate fouls that denied opponents the chance to score a goal. At the time, the English game was suffering a downturn in attendances and the chairmen of the Football League clubs decided to consider ways in which the game could be made exciting. A subcommittee was appointed to produce some suggestions, chaired by Jimmy Hill and including Matt Busby and Bobby Charlton.

The sub-committee produced several suggestions, including making the professional foul a mandatory red card offense, which they submitted to the IFAB for consideration. All the suggestions were defeated. However, the Football League was determined to have their way, and instructed its referees that professional fouls (including deliberate handball to stop a goal being scored) should be deemed serious foul play, which was and is a mandatory red card offense. The new interpretation was first issued to referees prior to the 1982-83 season, and the first player (probably) to be sent off for a professional foul was Lawrie Sanchez in the Football League Trophy.

[jonny72]

I just had a read of that Wikipedia article (the English "professional foul" interpretation is now in the rules as "denying an obvious goal-scoring opportunity").

Wasn't the original interpretation wider ranging, with the result you'd see red cards for offences that wouldn't be today due to them not being a clear enough goal scoring opportunity?

[reeves4england]

No you didn't

That quote only seems to be talking about when the player is through on goal though

[donkey]

Professional fouls are great when your team gets away with one.  Luc Nijholt was very good at this.

[Nemo]

Professional fouls are great when your team gets away with one.  Luc Nijholt was very good at this.

So are you. My fondest memory of Leeds is a guy going past you, you trying to catch him and realizing that the legs aren't going to help and just kicking him instead.

[Barry Scott]

See this is where we need richtheref@hotmail.com or whatever he's called. It's just dawned upon me that I think i queued for tickets with him for Charlton away.

[Nijholts Nuts]

Professional fouls are great when your team gets away with one.  Luc Nijholt was very good at this.

I love that man and his horrible challenges. I refer you to the following instances in the video clip

2m4s - His first goal in English football
3m19s - A crunching tackle on Roy Keane tackle and subsequent goading, he would smashed          Roy Keane all over IMHO

[Batch]

Luc Luc Luc Nijholt. One of my favourite Town players ever.

[Div]

'There is no such thing as a 'professional foul' -  i don't care what soccer saturday says ' would be my non-sharing wisdom answer. but, professional fouls are just fouls that 'Deny an Obvious goal scoring opportunity to an opponent' - which is self explanatory really. It doesn't matter if it's cynical or not; whether it was full of intent for the ball or for the man - if its any form of foul (a little push in the back, or a full on hug and grope of the bollocks, or a tackle which up-ends the attacker) and it obviously denies the chance of a shot at goal, then its a 'professional foul'. There are a number of things that a referee needs to look at before deciding whether it was an obvious goal scoring opportunity - distance from goal, defenders covering, ball position in relation to players are the main ones - i'll also add to that that any 'last-man' rule does not exist - just because a player could be seen to be covering, it doesn't mean that he would actually stop any obvious effort on goal.

There are 3 types of tackle in football, a careless one, a reckless one and a tackle that uses excessive force. Careless is just as it sounds, free-kick only. Reckless is said to be a tackle which disregards the safety of the opponent and warrants a yellow, whilst a tackle using excessive force is a tackle which uses too much force for the challenge, which disregards the safety of the opponent and could leave them seriously injured - these are the two footed lunges, the greer type challenges etc etc, and are classed as SFP, a red card.

Tackles with 'studs up' are reckless, even if its an innocuous challenge and most don't think it's a foul!

[Simon Pieman]

What about a fair tackle?

[Bogus Dave]

No such thing as a fair tackle. It MUST be a free kick to one side or tjhe other

[santasdead]

What about a fair tackle?

I can't wait for any sort of reply you might get.

Fair play to div for explaining something on a forum where obviously everbody thinks they are two years old so they can pick a cyberfight.

I hope Jonny has found his answer somewhere in this thread.

[Simon Pieman]

I can't wait for any sort of reply you might get.

Fair play to div for explaining something on a forum where obviously everbody thinks they are two years old so they can pick a cyberfight.

I hope Jonny has found his answer somewhere in this thread.

Nah just having a bit of a joke at an obvious error. I knew what Div really meant due to the context of the thread, but the post amused me because it was so factual yet that last paragraph missed the obvious fact there could be a fair challenge. In turn I'd hope my post wouldn't be taken too seriously.

It wasn't picking a fight at all and it certainly wasn't as bad as Div's post the other night (which actually made me laugh). Clearly the two of you know each other though and something's put your noses out of joint.