who are you voting in the euro elections?

[pauld]

I heard that and didn't understand it. I guess he's trying to argue that whilst the BNP is an all white party, sacking someone for being a member discriminates against white people as only a white person can be sacked for it. It seems a new argument as I hadn't heard of it before, let alone it being successful.

No he was trying to gliss the fact that the BNP is a racist party by clouding the issue with nonsense

[Doore]

The thing is it's all very well arguing that they should be exposed by the likes of Dimbleby or the excellent savaging he got from John Humphries on Radio 4 the other day, but the people who vote for them do not, by and large, watch or listen to these programs. I got excoriated on here for "banging on" about the BNP being Nazis by people who said I shouldn't get so het up about it because they were going nowhere. So we should all sit back and stop worrying about it. And hey-ho, now we as a nation are sending two Nazis to represent us in Europe. When exactly do we start worrying about it then? When they have two MPs? Three, thirty-three?

Jonny's (and chalkie in a previous thread) is right that the root causes are in the abandonment of the white working class by all parties, but especially New Labour, but that does not mean that the BNP do not represent a significant evil in their own right. They should be stopped and opposed at every opportunity and by every means available

I agree with almost everything you've said here.  My big problem with the incident is it puts a dent in the reputation of the anti-BNP campaign.  It seems a bit like saying we can't beat you with logical argument (which we can.  Easily.) so we will resort to egg throwing.

I'm not arguing at all that the BNP voice should be legitimated in mainstream politics.  It should be heard and dismissed as the digusting, ignorant tripe that it is.

I think you make a great point though - the problem is not enough people in this country take an interest in politics anymore.  If your only point of reference is The Sun, you are dangerously close to falling in to the clutches of the likes of the BNP.  Voter apathy is a real danger.

[blinkpip]

I was just around the corner, when it happened today. Seen many protesters, but missed the egg throwing. boo.

[jonny72]

Jonny's (and chalkie in a previous thread) is right that the root causes are in the abandonment of the white working class by all parties, but especially New Labour, but that does not mean that the BNP do not represent a significant evil in their own right. They should be stopped and opposed at every opportunity and by every means available

Not sure I put it like that but I'd pretty much agree as regards the cause of the BNP support. Except the abandonment is of the white "native" class as a whole and primarily the males, I'm male / white / English and often feel I'm the one in the minority nowadays (not enough to vote BNP though). Its not just Labour either, its all of the major parties and has been going on for years.

But as I said before, stopping the BNP is not the solution. Resolving the underlying causes is the solution and then the BNP will disappear off the radar again.

[chalkies_shorts]

I'm not arguing at all that the BNP voice should be legitimated in mainstream politics.  It should be heard and dismissed as the digusting, ignorant tripe that it is.

Exactly, but with reasoning not eggs. The fact the 3 main parties were behind this discredits them. They've allowed the BNP to be in this position and now they resort to childish tricks to beat them. No wonder the BNP are gaining popularity when our 3 main parties play into their hands.
As for being a legitimate party then its better in the open than driving it underground.

[pauld]

Exactly, but with reasoning not eggs. The fact the 3 main parties were behind this discredits them.

Erm, they weren't. That was just what Griffin said to add to his martyr complex, the demo was organised by UAF, not the Tories, Lib Dems and UKIP

[jonny72]

Erm, they weren't. That was just what Griffin said to add to his martyr complex, the demo was organised by UAF, not the Tories, Lib Dems and UKIP

I doubt they had anything to do with it. But they have admitted to having meetings and co-ordinating plans of action against the BNP, especially in an attempt to prevent them from winning any MEP seats. Which I reckon was a pretty stupid thing to do (or to admit to) as again it just gives the BNP more ammunition.

[Bennett]

The egg story made my day.  Play in to the BNP's hands?  I don't think so.  Seeing them scurrying back in to their cars was a beautiful sight to behold.

Loved it so much, I damn near went and changed my avatar.

i was going to do that, i saved a picture onto my desktop and called it "scum"

[Bennett]

on a slightly related note to all this eggy goodness- i flicked through the sun whilst bored (yes that bored) at lunch and noted that they were not aligning themselves with the BNP, despite hating immigrants. what a clever change of stance

and they ran a piece of how peter andre felt a "shadow of a man" after katie price, does that sound like something you'd hear come from his lips? the answer is only just, but he'd be reading a queue card

[Phil_S]

I don't think the BNP did do particularly well out of it. The egg throwers didn't do them selves any favours but nor did Griffins "Minders" who were filmed knocking a woman over in the rush to save their "Leader".
People who voted BNP have given many different reasons, & whilst some are undoubtably racist more are to do with no other party appealing to them. (as in Germany in the 30's).
I think that the problem is exacerbated by new labour in particular refusing even to debate the issue of immigration let alone do anything to controll it. Most EU countries opted out of initially allowing uncontrolled migration tob work from the old Eastern Bloc, we didn't.
Also is the complete lack of controll of illegal immigration & failed asylum seekers from places outside of the EU. (eg when they are found they are asked nicely to report to an office rather than being deported.)
The other thing behind some of the votes is the policy of "positive" discrimination in some areas (eg some police forces) where preference is given to people based on the colour of their skin or sex.
My belief is that if the main parties were to not be scared of & start discussing this properly & come up withy some reasonable sensible policies, then the BNP would actually die & just go back to being a party of nazi thugs.
Problem is that if a party does start talking about the issues then the PC brigade then start calling THEM facists.

[Don Rogers Shop]

By saying anyone who votes Bnp is racist plays into the Bnp's hands.Deluded thick as shit etc yes but to say everyone is racist if they vote is just stupid.

[pauld]

By saying anyone who votes Bnp is racist plays into the Bnp's hands.Deluded thick as shit etc yes but to say everyone is racist if they vote is just stupid.

Erm, I don't think anyone here has said all BNP voters are racist have they? The party's racist, its leaders are racists, and some of their voters are undeniably racist, but I don't think anyone's said "anyone who votes BNP is racist". Although, it would be legitimate to ask such people if they're not racists, why they're voting for a party that is

[Arriba]

those far left lobbing loonies are as bad as the bnp.

[pauld]

those far left lobbing loonies are as bad as the bnp.

And again: chucking eggs < burning mosques

[Phil_S]

Well without a doubt Stalin was as bad as Hitler. The Chinese & North Korean regimes are both repressive as is Zimbabwee & Amin's Uganda.
I guess that should the BNP ever come to Power this country would resemble the two African examples mentioned.
They all have one thing in common though. A lack of free & fair elections & a political elite who dictate to the masses. (bit like europe some would say).
They also all came to power as a result of a reaction to the status quo. ie people were disillusioned with the situation & allowed it to happen. There was no mederate alternative, so the extremists won through.
I'm convinced that in the case of the BNP the answer is for the main political parties to address the issues (They have been reluctant to do so for fear of being branded racist by the PC brigade).
Most who voted for the BNP would not do so (I'm sure) if for example one party adopted a policy of controlled imigration like Australia.
I also wonder was Enoch Powell wrong to talk about the subject in the 60's ? He has been vilified ever since for stating what he saw as the truth. Was he right or wrong? (I don't know the full text so can't make up my mind on that)
Getting back to the BNP the answer is definitely NOT to ban them. By all means jail them if they break the law, but a ban would only give them a stange form of Kudos, as with the Muslim extremists.  After all this country went to war with Hitler partly to defend the right of free speech.