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Author Topic: Financial Spread Betting  (Read 2197 times)
Dazzza

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« on: Tuesday, March 17, 2009, 16:00:08 »

Anyone bet or tried betting on the markets?

Just had my account approved from Natwest and itching to get started.  Fortunately I have a few decent mates in the financial sector who are making a mint themselves and good for advice but I've always been wary of spread betting as a whole.

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Colin Todd

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« Reply #1 on: Tuesday, March 17, 2009, 16:03:52 »

I mate of mine does this

i dont really understand it

hope that helps.
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Simon Pieman
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« Reply #2 on: Tuesday, March 17, 2009, 23:56:34 »

Just be careful. Spread betting can really fuck your bank balance up, doesn't matter what you're betting on.
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Barry Scott

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« Reply #3 on: Wednesday, March 18, 2009, 00:28:56 »

Did it for several years with IG Index, finspreads, capital spreads and Cantor. Capital used to have the best spreads and IG the best service.

Emotionally it's very hard, if you get in on some extremely liquid stocks, the spread is high (especially with a guaranteed stop-loss), but so is the movement. I remember one day having swings on £5 (Buy to open) on Rio Tinto at about +/-£200.

The toughest thing, apparenetly, is learning to cut yor losses, for me it was staying in them and not closing the position before nice profits. Also, with some of the more inviting stocks, Inchcape to name one i remember, i got stopped out several times because i wasn't prepared to take the swings needed, so merely gambled, on a lower-low and hoped it'd be good. It eventually climbed like a rocket (i wasn't aboard), but i soon learned there are certain volatile stocks you steer clear of. IG for instance used to let you trade at £2 min on some of the bigger boys, but if you wanted in on a lesser stock, you had minimum of £5, sometimes £10.

Derwent Valley Holdings was one i remember, i needed to pay at £5 a point and with spread i was about -£200 before it had even moved. That is why it's tough on the emotions, £1 per point at say Capital Spreads is great, and to be fair their spreads are amazing, but you stick that £1 a point on a currency pair with someone and fuck me, you'll wish you weren't born! Smiley

Some of the easiest trades, both emotionally and financially, i found, were using Fibonacci retracements on inter hourly binaries within the Dow 30 and Ftse 100. Oh and stay away from US stocks and currencies, you will honestly lose everything in minutes if your stop-loss is tight.

It's also a bit of a myth about losing more than you have, they'll let you deposit what you want, and you can lose everything in the account in seconds if your stupid. There are plenty of safeguards in place, to prevent you owing them, because that's something that used to happen quite a bit. Now, i think this is across the board, you can only trade with a guaranteed stop, positioned at a maximum amount of points, +/-, the number of multiples of your position size remaining in the account.

If you only deposit £1k or something many trades will be off the radar from the word go, either that or one position will take up your entire balance, until your stop loss is moved up or down accordingly. Try binaries, do it with £1, there's only a 1 or 2 point spread and they either close at 100 or 0, but that's a whole other animal.

Also, for any intra day stuff, get live software, Reuters Trader used to be one of the best, but it's pretty pricey. Sharescope Pro was pretty good and well priced, but don't buy any delayed software, it's near pointless imo. I think e-signal works out pretty good as well, from recollection, but we're talking 3-4 years ago or seomthing. Smiley

Good luck and hold tight.
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nevillew
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« Reply #4 on: Wednesday, March 18, 2009, 07:42:30 »

I see Barry - isn't there a football match you need to get to ? Smiley
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Paolo Di Canio, it's Paolo Di Canio
Samdy Gray
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« Reply #5 on: Wednesday, March 18, 2009, 08:02:13 »

I won't lie to you Barry, absolutely none of that made sense to me.
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Lumps

« Reply #6 on: Wednesday, March 18, 2009, 09:49:39 »

I won't lie to you Barry, absolutely none of that made sense to me.

Not just me then.....
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Talk Talk

« Reply #7 on: Wednesday, March 18, 2009, 10:23:44 »

Completely baffled as well.

And I thought IT jargon was bad.
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Barry Scott

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« Reply #8 on: Wednesday, March 18, 2009, 11:13:13 »

Sorry, once started on that subject i'm kinda hard to stop. That post was edited to fuck before i posted it [as was this!]... Cheesy

Glossary:

Spread: The difference between the buy and sell prices.

Stoploss: A point at which your position is closed regardless. Say you have bought September FTSE, which you purchased at 3800 and you either can't afford for the market to drop below a certain price, or would want to sell if it hit a certain price, then you'd place a stop-loss. If you bought at £3 per point and you have £500 in your account the stop would have to be at max 166.67 points away, so your max stop would be 3633.33.

If the market hit this point you're stopped out. This ends the deal/position no matter what. You could also decide the stop could be closer, and actually placed it at say 3750 (requiring a deposit of 50x£3). The trouble with this, is the range the index moves during the day, can hit a stop/limit just with normal movement and close your trade, when later, either that day/week/month, it could have recovered. Also, many platforms, won't allow you to place a stop too close, always tying up certain amounts of your capital.

The flip side is you can "trail" the price with a stop. Therefore locking in profit, so if it does hit a stop, it will close your position, but leave a profit.

Buy to open: [The opposite is Sell to close] - Meaning i'm expecting the price to rise (Also called going long - years ago you could pretty much only deal by phone and they would only deal with you if you used the correct terms - Buy/Sell to Open/Close - to avoid confusion and potential loss. The specifics were crazy, you'd never request a "price" if you wanted to know a current level, you'd ask for "an indication on the september FTSE", then ask for a price if you wanted to deal).

You also, when opening or closing a position, pick a time period, (current month, far month, near quarter, far quarter, annual and a few others) so you may say, "Buy to open on September FTSE at £3 per point" which means i expect the price of the FTSE index to rise against your current September price. When you want out, you'd request a "price on the September FTSE" then once received say, "I'd like to Sell To Close at £3 per point".

Sell to Open: like above but reversed. So you'll sell to open a position, and buy to close. This means you expect the stock to go short/down over a given time. Stops are then on the high side of the position. If you wanted to get clever when you had an open short position, and thought that when you wer about to close (Buy to close) you fancied the market now rising, you could chose to buy at £10, therefore closing the £3 short "down" and opening a £7 long "up".

Fuck i'm gonna open up so many cans of worms if i'm not careful, it's not even feasible to start getting into Fibonacci and charts! Cheesy I just love talking about this shit - although i am infact typing about it - but i really should learn when to shut the fuck up.

On a completely and utterly unrelated note, i've decided to fast for 36 hours.
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nochee

« Reply #9 on: Wednesday, March 18, 2009, 11:36:55 »

I think that would be an equinimical matter!
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jayohaitchenn
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« Reply #10 on: Wednesday, March 18, 2009, 14:08:17 »

Sorry, once started on that subject i'm kinda hard to stop. That post was edited to fuck before i posted it [as was this!]... Cheesy

Glossary:

Spread: The difference between the buy and sell prices.

Stoploss: A point at which your position is closed regardless. Say you have bought September FTSE, which you purchased at 3800 and you either can't afford for the market to drop below a certain price, or would want to sell if it hit a certain price, then you'd place a stop-loss. If you bought at £3 per point and you have £500 in your account the stop would have to be at max 166.67 points away, so your max stop would be 3633.33.

If the market hit this point you're stopped out. This ends the deal/position no matter what. You could also decide the stop could be closer, and actually placed it at say 3750 (requiring a deposit of 50x£3). The trouble with this, is the range the index moves during the day, can hit a stop/limit just with normal movement and close your trade, when later, either that day/week/month, it could have recovered. Also, many platforms, won't allow you to place a stop too close, always tying up certain amounts of your capital.

The flip side is you can "trail" the price with a stop. Therefore locking in profit, so if it does hit a stop, it will close your position, but leave a profit.

Buy to open: [The opposite is Sell to close] - Meaning i'm expecting the price to rise (Also called going long - years ago you could pretty much only deal by phone and they would only deal with you if you used the correct terms - Buy/Sell to Open/Close - to avoid confusion and potential loss. The specifics were crazy, you'd never request a "price" if you wanted to know a current level, you'd ask for "an indication on the september FTSE", then ask for a price if you wanted to deal).

You also, when opening or closing a position, pick a time period, (current month, far month, near quarter, far quarter, annual and a few others) so you may say, "Buy to open on September FTSE at £3 per point" which means i expect the price of the FTSE index to rise against your current September price. When you want out, you'd request a "price on the September FTSE" then once received say, "I'd like to Sell To Close at £3 per point".

Sell to Open: like above but reversed. So you'll sell to open a position, and buy to close. This means you expect the stock to go short/down over a given time. Stops are then on the high side of the position. If you wanted to get clever when you had an open short position, and thought that when you wer about to close (Buy to close) you fancied the market now rising, you could chose to buy at £10, therefore closing the £3 short "down" and opening a £7 long "up".

Fuck i'm gonna open up so many cans of worms if i'm not careful, it's not even feasible to start getting into Fibonacci and charts! Cheesy I just love talking about this shit - although i am infact typing about it - but i really should learn when to shut the fuck up.

On a completely and utterly unrelated note, i've decided to fast for 36 hours.


Thanks Baz that makes much more sense???
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Dazzza

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« Reply #11 on: Wednesday, March 18, 2009, 14:54:11 »

Cheers Barry, I got most of that.

Why the fast?
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Barry Scott

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« Reply #12 on: Wednesday, March 18, 2009, 15:09:17 »

Cheers Barry, I got most of that.

Why the fast?

I like to test myself, to prove that i have will power. Sounds a bit strange i know, but it's quite a cool experience; i've done it before you see! It's merely to fight that side of your brain that breaks your will. It gives me momentum with work to know i can tell my brain to fuck off if it's telling me it's nice outside, work sucks, so go to the pub and have a nice cold beer.

Oh i dunno, it's nice to teach yourself every once in a while that you can make a choice i suppose? It's like giving up smoking, you don't have to, but our heads give us excuses that are really inviting and we don't last long. Cheesy
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