dave mackay

[alanmayes]

An interview with Danny and the fact that it's the 40th anniversary of our Wembley win would be most
appropriate.Danny certainly had a good eye for a talented player.

Although i was a young fan at the time and at that age still impressionable about STFC and certain players,
i do remember Tommy Jenkins and a standout game against Blackpool in 74.It was near the end of the season
and although we'd already been relegated,he simply tore them apart that day.Blackpool had players such as
Ainscow,Tommy Burns,Suddaby and in goal John Burridge.They tried kicking him off the pitch,one got sent
off,but still they couldn't stop him.Burridge saved them from a cricket score.

Jenkins scored the only goal - beating about 4 players and lashing it into the top of the goal,from what i
remember.Danny described him as the most skillfull player at the club,even outdoing the likes of Eastoe,
Anderson and Moss.But he was wildly inconsistent.He left us and tried his luck in the emerging US league,
along with Terry Hubbard?

What on earth was Bobby Smith thinking of in spending the cup money on the likes of Peach and Rollings?
Ultimately it cost him his job.One month after he arrived,he was dropped making way for Andy Ford to
return at left back.

My last memory of Peach was the Cup match at home to Taunton,when Peach gifted them a goal,with a
suicidal back pass to Jimmy Allan.

[chalkies_shorts]

We went for Mickey Channon at £250k and settled for Peach at £200k. We were a collection of old crocks - literally in the case of Colin Barrett.
I felt sorry for Bobby Smith - we played cracking football in 78/79 I think it was but just ran out of steam. Sheer bollocks the year after.
Taunton was an interesting game as thier fans were supplemented by a few Slave Traders.

[alanmayes]

We went for Mickey Channon at £250k and settled for Peach at £200k. We were a collection of old crocks - literally in the case of Colin Barrett.
I felt sorry for Bobby Smith - we played cracking football in 78/79 I think it was but just ran out of steam. Sheer bollocks the year after.
Taunton was an interesting game as thier fans were supplemented by a few Slave Traders.

We went for Channon one year before signing Peach.The story goes that when Bobby Smith
approached McMenemy about Peach,he was told that "You can't afford him" meaning wages
plus transfer fee.Smith was determined to sign him,so all of the cup money went on Peach.

Managers live and die by their decisions,Bobby Smith although going on to work at Newport
and Swansea,never really recovered in the managerial stakes, from his dismissal at STFC.

Looking back,i was annoyed at the time when Smith was sacked,but i feel that the loss of
Wilf Tranter as coach in the summer,was key.Although we had signed Cockerill in late 79,
McHale was the lynchpin to the side.We needed to sign a commanding centre half,but a
slow and injury prone Andy Rollings was never going to be the answer.

[Reg Smeeton]

this thread has taught me a bit.i never knew the details of the history of mackay here.just heard it didn't go too well.thanks 4 enlightening me chaps.

You want to be a bit careful with some of these reminiscences Arriba, because they're either factually wrong, or a prejudiced view of the reality.

Mackay wasn't a particularly poor manager, he did make a mistake in selling Stan Harland, but Mackay had been signed as a player/coach during Fred Ford's time...Fred  decided to play Stan in midfield to accommodate Mackay, which pissed Harland off...an opinionated man, once Mackay became manager it was one or the other.

 Don was sold, because as is usual at STFC we were in financial meltdown, the Board were alarmed at falling gates, a 70's thing at STFC, not solely, but partly driven by hooliganism.

The Board put the whole squad up for sale...they hoped to maybe keep their prize asset, and sell other players, but there were no takers.

Mackay, was given some of the money to spend, buying the enigmatic Jenkins, but quit soon afterwards.

Again as is often the case, when things are driven by finance, Mackay was replaced by Les Allen, youth team boss.

The Board were concerned by the cost of the new North Stand, and so a further round of player departures was necessary, and their replacements, overseen by the hapless Allen, largely comical.

 In total Mackay did the equivalent an old Div 2...42 game season, his 42 points gained easily a comfortable mid table finish....which is more or less how the 2 incomplete seasons he did ended up.

[alanmayes]

Reg,that's a very fair and critical resume of the Mackay period at STFC.My Dad told me pretty much
the same,in that the board thought that there would be a rush of clubs wanting Rod Thomas,rather
than Rogers.Also,it wasn't Fred Ford's decision to sign Mackay,but a whim by Wilf Castle (Club President)

It destabilised the team and i'm sure that there were probably other areas,that could have been
strengthened.Harland went to Birmingham and had a great time there,along with the likes of a young
Trevor Francis,Bob Latchford and Bob Hatton.

[Crozzer]

Reg,that's a very fair and critical resume of the Mackay period at STFC.My Dad told me pretty much
the same,in that the board thought that there would be a rush of clubs wanting Rod Thomas,rather
than Rogers.Also,it wasn't Fred Ford's decision to sign Mackay,but a whim by Wilf Castle (Club President)

It destabilised the team and i'm sure that there were probably other areas,that could have been
strengthened.Harland went to Birmingham and had a great time there,along with the likes of a young
Trevor Francis,Bob Latchford and Bob Hatton.

Harland was captain at Birmingham and looked the part in the top flight.  Peter Noble was sold for 40,000 quid to Burnley again a team in the top flight.  He was a revelation at right full back, and praise was constant on MoTD.  I recall a comment that if Peter had joined Burnley years earlier he would have probably been in the England squad.  Ask older Burnley supporters about Peter Noble and they just go on about what a great player he was.  Peter may have a sports shop, or some other business in Burnley, I think I was told that. 

Looking at the 69 League Cup winning side, Noble, Rogers, Harland and Thomas played at the highest level, and John Trollope would have waltzed into many of the then Div. 1 sides.  Half that team were first rate players in their time.

The Les Allen tenure was a disaster, only the emergence of David Moss was the bright spot at that time.

[Reg Smeeton]

The Les Allen tenure was a disaster, only the emergence of David Moss was the bright spot at that time.

In an earlier post castigating Mackay, you imply that it took Danny Williams to clean up his mess..had you forgotten about dear old Les?

Of course Les wasn't dealt much of a hand, but you're right that he was a disaster....Mossy had been introduced to the side by Mackay...he got a more regular game under Allen because of the sale of Rogers and Steve Peplow.

[alanmayes]

The treatment of Peter Downsborough was scandalous.I'm told that he only wanted a small
payrise,but he was uncremoniously dumped on,loaned to Brighton and then sold to Bradford.
Not the way to have treated a STFC great and loyal man.

The reception that Peter got on his return to the CG with Bradford back in 77 was amazing.
Typically,he had a fantastic game that night.Danny had tried to get him back several times,
but Peter was settled back into life in his native Yorkshire.

[Reg Smeeton]

The treatment of Peter Downsborough was scandalous.I'm told that he only wanted a small
payrise,but he was uncremoniously dumped on,loaned to Brighton and then sold to Bradford.
Not the way to have treated a STFC great and loyal man.

The reception that Peter got on his return to the CG with Bradford back in 77 was amazing.
Typically,he had a fantastic game that night.Danny had tried to get him back several times,
but Peter was settled back into life in his native Yorkshire.

It was Les Allen, who dropped Downsborough, and then sold him.

I worry with this thread, that these crimes are by insinuation being placed at Mackay's door.

It was the Board, who were telling Allen to reduce the wage bill, and get in cut price players.

To be fair to the Board, they were responding to the fact that our average home gate had dropped by 50%, a lose of just about 10,000 fans per game in approx 3 seasons at the beginning of the 70's.

It's my belief that this was largely due to hooliganism....large numbers of my father's generation just stopped going as it became a game they could no longer understand or enjoy.

[alanmayes]

It's a very interesting point that 70's hooliganism played a large part in us losing the older generation of
supporters.I imagine that they would have been the most loyal of all of our fanbase at that time?
Even with the breakup of the 69 side,you would have thought that those fans would have stayed.

I suppose that the club lost a bit of it's soul and identity at this time,with Mackay and Allen and the
change to a red and black strip.Factor in the economic depression of that time,3 day week,oil crisis
and miners strike,it was a depressing time all around.I can remember bunking off school, to watch a
midweek afternoon game at home to Luton.

[Reg Smeeton]

 All good points AM....crowds went down across the country...England's failure to qualify for 2 World Cups in the 70's, also didn't help the perception of the game in the eyes of the general public.

[Bob's Orange]

Dave Mackay was a Hearts playing legend. I didn't even know he managed us!!

[Anteater]

As a snotty nosed imp in my very early days as a Town fan me and a couple of mates in our school summer holidays decided to go to the old Shrivvy Road training ground for the Towns first training session the first season under the new tutorage of Mackay. The idea was to get as many autographs as we could. Mackay was one of the first to turn up but gave me and a few other toerags short shrift basically telling us no autographs until after training.We managed to get every player that showed that morning except Mackay. After waiting patiently for him (he was virtually last to leave) and asking again as he went to his car he told me and the two or three others that had bothered waiting to 'bugger off I haven't got time !'.
Needless to say from that point onwards my view of Mr Mackay was slightly tainted, and he did manage to not only pursue several unpopular ideas in his tenure but then 'Buggered off' in the self same fashion leaving the club in a worse state than when he arrived. The bloke was a twat !

[Reg Smeeton]

.Needless to say from that point onwards my view of Mr Mackay was slightly tainted, and he did manage to not only pursue several unpopular ideas in his tenure but then 'Buggered off' in the self same fashion leaving the club in a worse state than when he arrived. The bloke was a twat !

 When Mackay started as boss, we were 14th in the second tier, when he quit 17th. We certainly didn't progress during his tenure, more stood still....but I just don't see him as the antichrist of urban myth.

 Incidentally Dave Mackay Ties....the business he set up when at Spurs, is still going strong today.

 Think I've got a Mackay somewhere in my collection of tasteless ties.

[Anteater]

When Mackay started as boss, we were 14th in the second tier, when he quit 17th. We certainly didn't progress during his tenure, more stood still....but I just don't see him as the antichrist of urban myth.

 Incidentally Dave Mackay Ties....the business he set up when at Spurs, is still going strong today.

 Think I've got a Mackay somewhere in my collection of tasteless ties.

OK not the Antichrist maybe, just a tiewat !