Israel, getting away with it again...

[dell boy]

oooh good find.

David Vance - Biased BBC - I agree with every word of it.

Just like this conflict Ironside, you need to find middle ground otherwise your arguments do not hold water.

Take two steps back before you take one forward, and then start negotiating all over again.

[Lumps]

Tel-Aviv is more densly populated than Gaza.

And? You quote my comment that £800m per annum is probably the minimum it would cost to provide basic services to Gaza and the West Bank, and then start providing population density figures for random middle eastern cities? What relevance is that FFS?

[Simon Pieman]

I blame Michael Buffer.

[Lumps]

I see the BBC is relentlessly quoting "500 deaths" without any effort to tell us how many of those killed are Hamas terrorists or, how many others were killed because of Hamas.

Just one big bite-sized media friendly number that cannott be independently verified and has come directly from...Hamas.

The BBC, terrorist propoganda peddler.

It's quite difficult to indepedently verify casualty figures on either side in this conflict what with the massive restrictions on independent reporting that have been put in place by the Israelis.

The whole fucking world is quoting a figure of about 500, and that's hardly unlikely considering the amount of ordanence that's been chucked into Gaza in the last week.

One thing we do know is that one fucking Israeli shell killed an entire family of 14 yesterday morning, at one stroke outstripping the declared death toll on the other side of the border from the "year long rocket terror" that the supposedly biased BBC tells us about every 30 minutes or so.

And the BBC did manage to interview a trauma surgeon in one of the Gaza hospitals who said quite clearly that at least 45% of the injured he'd treated had been women and children, and that he could count the number of Hamas combatants that had gone through his unit on the fingers of one hand.

He was a bleeding heart liberal, I think from Sweden or Norway, so obviously you can't trust a word he says, not compared to the trite opinions of some middle aged neo-nazi posting on a football website from his spare room.

[Lumps]

Actually I withdraw that last comment. This whole conflict must be difficult for your lot, Muslims on one side and Jews on the other.

It's not suprising you're sounding a bit confused.

[Ironside]

Alright Lumpy, I might have quoted the wrong wrong post, calm down.  You were going on somewhere about if being densly populated.  There are plenty of places on earth with a higher population density that Gaza, one of which is Tel-Aviv.  The point was that you can't use it and axcuse to lob rockets at your neighbours.

Let's have a look at the financial stats though:

The PA says it needs some $170 million per month to meet its financial obligations, including $115 million to pay the salaries of thousands of government employees. These include teachers, police, and members of the bloated Palestinian security forces, which have been plagued by cronyism and corruption. The PA collects only about $34 million per month from taxes and other charges.

How much aid came from the EU?

The EU is withholding more than $600 million it used to give annually to the PA. This included:

    * $262 in donations from member states;
    * $85 million distributed through the World Bank;
    * $72 million for infrastructure;
    * $35 million for food aid;
    * $33 for humanitarian aid;
    * $24 for special projects; and
    * $12 million for Israeli-Palestinian integration.

How much aid came from the United States?

    * $160 million in current or planned projects;
    * $130 in infrastructure projects, including road and building construction;
    * $45 million in direct assistance to the PA;
    * $20 million for private enterprise development;
    * $17 million in political support programs;
    * $13 in civil society development;
    * $10 million in judicial reform programs;
    * $7 million in vocational training; and
    * $4 million for community policing.

I make $929m + in donations

+ $408m in taxes collected
=$1337m just from what I found with a quick search (2006 figures)

http://www.cfr.org/publication/10499/

Population of Gaza 406k (2006) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaza

Population of Sheffield 502k (2005) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/People_of_Sheffield

If they weren't busy lobbing rockets at Israel and generally pissing of the Gypo's on the other side, they might actually be able to build the country up instead of spunking other people's taxes up the wall

[Ironside]

Actually I withdraw that last comment. This whole conflict must be difficult for your lot, Muslims on one side and Jews on the other.

It's not suprising you're sounding a bit confused.

I'm not confused Lumpy, I know exactly where I stand on this whole situation.

Neither side is doing anything to help themselves.
Hamas is provoking Israel and the people proclaims to be representing are the ones who suffer.
Israel is within its rights to do what its doing - defending itself.
The media seems to be peddling propoganda and not reporting facts.
I don't hate anyone..except moron's like your good-self.

i hope that is simple enough for you to understand.

[Lumps]

You've just posted the population of Gaza city, not the entire Gaza strip which is over 1.5m. The source you've referenced clearly states that the wider urban area of Gaza city has a population of 1.4m, so I can't help but think you're being a bit disengenuous.

You've also quoted the budgets for the PA, which you'll know administers the West Bank with its population of between 2 and 2.5 million as well as the Gaza strip.

All in all that means you've understated the population served by a factor of about 10. And you moan about the BBC not being sure enough of its figures.

Dear oh dear.

More to the point the whole fucking isssue around funds is irrelevant as I posted fucking pages back. The fundamental issue is that the Israeli blockade has prevented any significant import of materials and supplies into an urban conurbation of around 1.5m people for the best part of a year. They bombed the fuck out of the place about a year ago and have not allowed anything in to rebuild since.

All the fucking money in the world doesn't solve that one.

So those people live in slums and refugee camps and are a bit pissed off. Who can blame them.

 

[sheepshagger]

And you are SERIOUSLY

I'm not confused Lumpy, I know exactly where I stand on this whole situation.

Neither side is doing anything to help themselves.
Hamas is provoking Israel and the people proclaims to be representing are the ones who suffer.
Israel is within its rights to do what its doing - defending itself.
The media seems to be peddling propoganda and not reporting facts.
I don't hate anyone..except moron's like your good-self.

i hope that is simple enough for you to understand.

And you are seriously going to defend Israel for 'defending itself"

what a load of horse shit !

I think the official Israel death toll figure published today was 8 - 4 of which were killed by their own soldiers !

So what do they do ?  Go and bomb a fucking UN run school - and kill untold amounts of INNOCENT kids....

Anyone who can seriously defend them after this - using the "we are only defending ourselves" argument has a fucking screw loose in my opinion....

[Ironside]

Lumps, I get bored reading your rants so skip through them I dan't actually give a fuck anymore.

Sheepshagger, I defend Israel's right to defend itself so fuck off.

Bored...

[sheepshagger]

prick - you cannot defend anyones right to kill innocent kids .....

If you can you are some sort of weirdo !

[Ironside]

Tell that to victims of Islamic terrorist you fucking womble.

"A chat with you and somehow death loses it's sting"
Edmund Blackadder

[sheepshagger]

you bloody fool !

Those "islamic terrorists" were in the UN run school today were they ?

If you had half a fucking brain and actually read some of my earlier posts on this subject you wouldn't think I was just having a dig at you - in fact there are big problems on BOTH sides which is obvious to anyone with an ounce of intelligence....

But no-one can defend bombing a school and killing innocent kids - in the name of "defending my country" - it is the biggest bollocks argument that is being spouted by the Israelies to hide behind some of the attrocities that they are carrying out !

[Ironside]

you bloody fool !

Those "islamic terrorists" were in the UN run school today were they ?

If you had half a fucking brain and actually read some of my earlier posts on this subject you wouldn't think I was just having a dig at you - in fact there are big problems on BOTH sides which is obvious to anyone with an ounce of intelligence....

But no-one can defend bombing a school and killing innocent kids - in the name of "defending my country" - it is the biggest bollocks argument that is being spouted by the Israelies to hide behind some of the attrocities that they are carrying out !

 

I tend not read your posts either Sheepshagger because you come across as an aggressive lout with the intelligence of a four-year-old, and the sexual sophistication of a donkey.  Please fuck off.

[spacey]

Tell that to victims of Islamic terrorist you fucking womble.

So the victims of Islamic terrorists can defend the right to kill innocent children? I'd like to hear that argument.

This is all depressing stuff. I saw Iggy Pop on the telly earlier selling insurance. We're all going to hell in a handcart, not in my name etc, etc

I bet you read my posts, because I'm great.