Israel, getting away with it again...

[dell boy]

TEF wars will now continue on The General Discussion threads ... merry christmas.

[leefer]

As someone who seems to lean towards the israelis on this one are you one of these hardliners who for some reason refuses to believe the attrocitys of WW2...its not an agresive questin just wondered what your stance is,as from what ie seen you seem very right wing...i know its an old story but its something that i study and read about alot...as i said its not meant to be antagonistic and certainly not personal.

[Ironside]

As someone who seems to lean towards the israelis on this one are you one of these hardliners who for some reason refuses to believe the attrocitys of WW2...its not an agresive questin just wondered what your stance is,as from what ie seen you seem very right wing...i know its an old story but its something that i study and read about alot...as i said its not meant to be antagonistic and certainly not personal.

Fair enough, I'll explain. I am more RW in my political views, that's a fact.

Did the holocaust happen? of course it fucking did and anyone who says otherwise is deluded.

Do I support Israel? Yes. They're doing what I would expect any government to do. They defend their citizens, jew, christian muslim and the rest, they defend their nations territorial integrity by whatever means are necessary.  I would expect our government to do the same in those circumstances.  Israel isn't perfect but now they have a formally recognised (UN) Nation State, they've got as much right as anyone to call it their homeland and defend it by whatever means thay have to.

Like I said earlier, I don't know what the fix is but people have been fighting over that land since the dawn of civilization and probably before.

Edit: I should also add that some people's perceptions of Nationalist politics is stuck in their 1970's student haircuts.

[leefer]

Thanks...refreshingly honest  anyway as ive said its all old hat,but for millions it isnt...lets just hope the new president of the US will show both sides that he can help sort out a solution....because its a problem that pretty soon may effect us all.

[Reg Smeeton]

I should also add that some people's perceptions of Nationalist politics is stuck in their 1970's student haircuts.

 I had some ace student haircuts in the 70's....a particular favourite, being the spiky, semi mullet, cut using a mirror, difficult to get round the back.
 
 My perceptions of the Nationalist politics in the 70's was of a group of people who didn't like foreigners very much, either inside or outside of Britain....I'm glad it's changed.

 It now seems you like the Jews..

[dell boy]

Haircuts, what haircuts ... my hair went past my bum, the continental girls use to love guys with long hair.

I should have kept the off-cuts when it was all shaven off in the late 70s and stuck it back on in the 90s and thereafter.

[Bennett]

Name one conflict that has been fought like that. The strong usually win. I say usually because when Israel was attacked by virtually the whole of the arab world, who were much stronger militarily, the Israelis defended their new Homeland and actually gained land.

It's like fucking Grounhog Day with you Bennett, I'm sure we've had this debate before!

Let's just agree to disagree.

i was only mucking about with that bit....

i'll get you a kosher pint tomorrow babes xx

[leefer]

I had a feather cut...remember them.

[jonny72]

Do I support Israel? Yes. They're doing what I would expect any government to do. They defend their citizens, jew, christian muslim and the rest, they defend their nations territorial integrity by whatever means are necessary.  I would expect our government to do the same in those circumstances.  Israel isn't perfect but now they have a formally recognised (UN) Nation State, they've got as much right as anyone to call it their homeland and defend it by whatever means thay have to.

Lets put the Israeli actions in to context. They fire missiles at terrorists knowing that there will be civilian casualties - would you have accepted this from the British government during the Northern Ireland conflicts? For example, there is a car with four terrorists in it driving down a busy street, the British government launch a missile from a helicopter at the car taking it out and killing the occupants along with 10 innocent civilians walking down the same street. Would that have been ok? Of course not, yet the Israeli's do it on a regular basis.

Your point about Israel being a formally recognised country by the UN (and the rest of the world) is important and interesting as well. Because Palestine isn't and as far as I'm aware about the only body that does recognise it is FIFA. How do you think that makes Palestinians feel? If it was me, I'd be pissed.

Again though, I'm not saying either side is worse but you cannot defend the actions of Israel which are on a level with all of the other rogue, undemocratic and illegal states around the world. Given what they went through in WW2 you'd have thought the Israeli's would be a peaceful and tolerant state but they're not, they're just as bad as all the others and commit unlawful murder on a regular basis.

[leefer]

Johny i was aware there was a fairly well observed truce untill a few days back...can you remind us who called that off...i seem to recall it was Hamas who incidently are not the face off all palestinians these days...most of them want peace.

[Don Rogers Shop]

Leave them to it. Worry only about what you can directly influence.

[billy the fish]

Leave them to it. Worry only about what you can directly influence.

the main worry is other middle east countries joining in, that will being problems to all of us

[Ironside]

Lets put the Israeli actions in to context. They fire missiles at terrorists knowing that there will be civilian casualties - would you have accepted this from the British government during the Northern Ireland conflicts? For example, there is a car with four terrorists in it driving down a busy street, the British government launch a missile from a helicopter at the car taking it out and killing the occupants along with 10 innocent civilians walking down the same street. Would that have been ok? Of course not, yet the Israeli's do it on a regular basis.


The difference being of course that NI was an internal insurgency, this middle east problem isn't. I don't get this attitude some people have who moan about the Israeli's having better weapons. So fucking what? That show how restrained they really are because they could obliterate the west bank and gaza if they wanted to, along with most of their neighbouring countries.  The fact is that the two sides signed a ceasefire which wach was consistenly broken by Palistinians firing rockets at Israeli civilian and military targets.  Why shouldn't the Israeli's retaliate?

Your point about Israel being a formally recognised country by the UN (and the rest of the world) is important and interesting as well. Because Palestine isn't and as far as I'm aware about the only body that does recognise it is FIFA. How do you think that makes Palestinians feel? If it was me, I'd be pissed.

You do know that 80% of the territory known as "Palestine" prior to the creation of the State of Israel is still in Arab hands? The "Palestinians don't exist other than in propoganda. They're Arab's, same as the Iraqi's, Jordanese, Lebanese and Gypo's.

Again though, I'm not saying either side is worse but you cannot defend the actions of Israel which are on a level with all of the other rogue, undemocratic and illegal states around the world. Given what they went through in WW2 you'd have thought the Israeli's would be a peaceful and tolerant state but they're not, they're just as bad as all the others and commit unlawful murder on a regular basis.

So Israel is a rogue state now is it? On a par with North korea now is it? Do you work for the BBC or just believe the shite it serves up as news? 

[Gazza's Fat Mate]

Didn't have all these problems when the british emprie was around cos then everyone hated one force, US BRITS! The worst thing that happened was the clopase of empire most former british enpire contry's are now fucked so it's there are fault just let them all die

[Ironside]

Didn't have all these problems when the british emprie was around cos then everyone hated one force, US BRITS! The worst thing that happened was the clopase of empire most former british enpire contry's are now fucked so it's there are fault just let them all die

Shut up you fucking goon.