Is Fitton Incompetent?

[gasha1]

"I'd say that too. But that is a long way from being incompetent."

Batch I never said the board was incompetent. I put the (yes, provocative) question, is the current board incompetent? But that was to encourage discussion more than anything.

This is quite an interesting debate actually, about how much responsibility ultimately the board of a football
club has for its on field performance.

My actual view is that one couldn't possibly judge the competence, business or football wise, of a group of football club owners after a year, but on the other hand, football club owners are accountable to not just their shareholders but to a group of very passionate customers, ie us. I wonder if this is one of the lessons AF and co are learning.

[Bogus Dave]

We have been dissapointing on the field since they took over, thats a given. If it takes one step backwards to take two forwards though then i'm all for it.

[gasha1]

leefer

excellent post.

This is the crux of the matter.

Lets just say for the sake of argument that without Fitton there would be no STFC, we don't know that for sure but its pretty likely.

Question is, should we therefore be happy if we plunge in to the Blue Square Premier?

Or should we want the best for this football club, which means getting back to the Premier. Which a lot of us saw, so whats wrong with wanting the best.

Discuss.

[reeves4england]

Should the board be above criticism? No, of course not. They came in and saved the club which was (and is) great for the fans and for the town, but any rich twat could have done the same and then sent us down the pan a year later. We have to judge on what they have done since then, and I'd say Fitton has done a good job.

Is this another false dawn? No. It's not false, as the board are running the club properly, and it's not a dawn - it's going to take a lot longer than an hour! Unfortunately some fans think that shrewd business sense means splashing the cash in return for 'guaranteed' success which will help us break even in the long run. Teams like Leicester, Leeds, and a little club called Swindon have all done that in the past and ended up much worse off for it.

Should the board be blamed for the decline on the pitch? To some extent, yes. They appointed Malpas and he turned out not to be the man for the job. However, every club has had managers who've done a poor job, and this time next year we could be sitting here thinking what a great appointment Malpas' successor has been! In terms of playing staff, it has been frustrating to see a lack of top notch players materialising in Town shirts, but we are still running on a strict budget and the squad we have now is, in my opinion, perfectly capable of reaching a perfectly acceptable mid-table finish. We've made it hard for ourselves so far but I'm still hopeful that it can be turned around.

[DiV]

Fitton is a good business man but as time goes by I am starting to wonder if he is a football man.

Just a few things I will highlight that, in truth probably arent all down to Fitton but maybe the board as a whole.

Contracts - I am really a bit miffed with this. Comminges was playing well this time last season but we waited till March when other clubs were interested to finally offer him a new deal. Too late, if he had been offered one 3/4 months earlier he would have signed.

This season we have Sean Morrison and yes that kid again I like to talk up Lloyd Macklin. Apart from Simon Cox two of our most sellable assests. They both have decent potential and are very young. Macklin has made some serious impressions at youth level, even to have all the top scouts come and watch him. Morrison has made a decent go of being a first team player. New contracts? nothing, time left to run 6months? too late. Better clubs will offer them contracts, agents will turn their heads and they'll end up going for tribunal pittance.

Agents - Whilst I admire Fittons stance on these its dog eat dog. Even if we agree not to pay an agent for a certain transfers you can bet your house on the fact that another club will. The no dealing with agents rule would only work is every other club had the same stance as us. They dont, so we're not even starting on level pegging.

Backroom staff - Malpas should have been able to bring some of his own men in.

New Manager - Its been nearly 6 weeks and we've gone from 50 to 30 to 4 to 3 to 2 to 1 back up to 50 again. If Byrne was getting results I could understand Fitton taking his time but Byrne isnt.

Next month could really be the month will tells us the most about Fitton. The new manager and the transfer window is vitally important to us. We need to sign the young players with potential on long term deals, we need to refuse bids for our main players (well, just Cox) and we have to get the right manager in.

Lets see what Fitton does in January but I must admit, a bit foolish or even knee-jerkish but each day this manager search goes on I lose a little bit of faith in Fitton.

[gasha1]

ok reevesforengland.

Perhaps ultimately what you are saying is that, yes, we've made huge strides off the pitch, but its taking time to get it right on the pitch. So lets be a little more patient.

This is a rookie board as far as football is concerned, and they are intelligent enough to learn from their mistakes.

So not incompetent, more learner drivers.

"Backroom staff - Malpas should have been able to bring some of his own men in."

This is one of the serious mistakes AF and co need to learn from.

[flammableBen]

"This board is the best we've had for years."


Mr Bhaji, I wonder if you are confusing "best" with "richest".

A group of very rich dudes have saved STFC from oblivion, yes, but the two questions that spring to mind are a)  should we always be happy whatever the results on the field because "we nearly went bust", and b) does that make the board above criticism?

My guess is the current owners themselves would say no) and no)

Not only have they saved the club from oblivion, but they've undertaken a restructuring of the mess that was left, into a viable business that hopefully at some point in the future can sustain it's position in the football league.

To me that's a good job on Priority 1 or A or Alpha or whatever you want to call it. The most important stuff.

The downside of this stability; the aim of a club which mostly supports itself (completely self-sufficiant may be an unachievable dream), is that we have to accept that the paying above our means for success route is no longer going to be open to us.

Should we criticise Fitton and co for not going for the money bags approach? They've obviously got the money to sustain it in the short term if they wished, but I don't think we should.

I didn't want Diagrecunt out because he wasn't paying millions for players, I wanted him out because he was running the club into the ground. I welcomed Fitton with his plan for stability, and I still agree with that plan. Paying above a clubs means for success always ends up badly.

The problem with the stability plan is that it's meant that the "new dawn" of the Fitton era wasn't guaranteed (and hasn't) coincided with a good period on the pitch. It was always a risk. Fitton took over with the club in fucking great giant mess, remember that we couldn't actually afford Sturrock. Must have been a difficult time to appoint a manager.

Looking back a year ago, at the time I thought the reasons behind the Malpas appointment were fairly sound. Hindsight is wonderful, but hindsight bias is a dangerous thing.

[DiV]

Should we criticise Fitton and co for not going for the money bags approach?

No we shouldnt but alot of our fans expect it.

[gasha1]

thank you for your points ben.


"Should we criticise Fitton and co for not going for the money bags approach? They've obviously got the money to sustain it in the short term if they wished, but I don't think we should."

I don't think anyone on this thread is criticising AF for not spending enough money on team building although there are probably people who think that way. If that's their view fine, let's discuss it. Thats what this thread is about.



"Looking back a year ago, at the time I thought the reasons behind the Malpas appointment were fairly sound. Hindsight is wonderful, but hindsight bias is a dangerous thing."

I agree, its easy to be wise after the event, although there were plenty of people who thought from his record at Motherwell that MM would be a disaster. Although being lumbered with DB can't have helped.

Again, the question is, how much should the huge strides off the field make us suppress our criticism of football related decisions?

Lets face it, there is a certain "sun shines out of Fitton's arse" sentiment kicking around. Is this a good thing?
Does it matter?

[STFC_Gazza]

Football is a game of ups and downs. Take the rough with the smooth, Fitton and his consortium have done a stirling job off the field. Time will tell if they can sort it on, personally I think it is too early. If we go down and dont compete to come straight back up and slip down the table then clearly they are above their heads if we stay up, he's chosen a good new manager etc etc.. Too early to tell IMO so far off the pitch 10 out of 10, On the pitch I will wait and see. I think Fitton would happily sit down and chat to fans with any "concerns" etc. Whenever I have spoken to Nick Watkins he has always had a reasoned debate

[Arch Stanton]

The only mistakes that Fitton has made was appointing Malpas and taking forever to appoint his successor...... hardly grounds to label him incompetent in my opinion.

I know we're not calling him that here, as we're merely playing devils advocate and encouraging debate blah blah blah

But I feel if I had made some bad calls during my working career (like we all have done) I would feel a tad enraged if shareholders were branding me incompetent.

If I continued making bad errors of judgement and showed a complete lack of business nous for, lets say, five years, I would thoroughly deserve being labelled 'incompetent'

Fittons error in appointing Malpas only proved a mistake as the season unwinded, who knows, with a bit more luck he could have hit on the right chemistry and things could've been different. Ardiles was a superb manager for Swindon, but complete driveling shite at Newcastle  - so despite Malpas previous poor record, things could've turned out ok.

In fact, I ate a chicken pasanda in Dundee the other week, seemed a good idea at the time... proved a punishing mistake at about 4.32am...... so we all make bad calls of judgement.

Fittons 'error' in not appointing a new manager quickly is very frustrating, he's used to making executive appointments which do drag on for months, so I think he's applying the 'carefully does it' approach, he wants to recruit right this time, so he doesnt end up paying for his haste in six months time.

This principle is alien in the football world, it's alien to me, I'm boiling with fury about it all but I've been scolded on this forum many times before for being a 'negative fan' so I've decided to give the benefit of the doubt to Fitton. But if he does end up with say, Dave Hockaday in another 5 weeks time I'll being effin' furious with it all and I'll be calling Fitton all the names under the sun, but somehow I still think I'll get nowhere near calling him incompetent.......

[gasha1]

Ok less than impressive though the football related judgement may have been, ultimately isn't it true that these guys have so much at stake financially that they simply can't afford to fail?

[flammableBen]

Again, the question is, how much should the huge strides off the field make us suppress our criticism of football related decisions?

Of course we shouldn't suppress the criticism of on the field matters. I'm saying this doesn't make him incompetent, which you may have noticed is the title of your thread.

And what do you mean by "Again"? That questions be answered by numerous posts on the 4 pages of this thread. You seem to be more intent on stirring than actually responding to people who have answered your criticisms. This may be why your getting some angry responses.

Yes this forum is pretty pro-fitton at times, but the more well written responses, many of which you've seemed to ignored, have put across why, and pretty well. I don't even include my drunken ramblings on this.

I get the impression that you're more interested in stirring than you are for a real discussion about Fitton's tenure so far.

I agree, its easy to be wise after the event, although there were plenty of people who thought from his record at Motherwell that MM would be a disaster. Although being lumbered with DB can't have helped.

Wooot. Good for them. However, they're not the ones having to deal with the realities of taking over a club which is fully in the shit. Malpas was always a risk. Was it a risk worth taking at the time? One of those questions which we'll probably never be able to answer.

Was it a bad appointment? With hindsight obviously. If at the time it was the best fit with the restructuring of the club then possibly not.

[axs]

yes we're all grateful to AF for saving the club, etc etc. blah blah blah

However, as i see it, the honeymoon period is now well and truly over.

Since the take over we've had:

1) Malpas
2) The "delusions of grandeur" outburst
3) losing out on all our summer signings
4) the new manager fiasco.


Is this board fit to run a football club...?

You ask for serious debate but you start by dismissing what Fitton has done with 'blah blah blah'. Aside from that I think it is a good debate to have. Not only will it show up the board's 'improvement opportunities' but it also serves to highlight their achievements.

We have come on leaps and bounds off the pitch. Not so on the pitch which is unfortunate but hopefully easier to remedy. A lot of people's opinions, whether they be justfied or not, will hinge on the managerial appointment. Not just in the short term, as in 'who the hell is he?' but also in the longer term when we get to see what the new guy can do for the remainder of this term and next season.

I don't believe there is a honeymoon period as I don't believe the board have done anything heinous. The only notable downside has been Malpas and appointing a replacement. But to anyone who would suggest the board are incompetant I would say give them a chance, it's a steep learning curve no doubt and I'm sure they will have learned from last time.

[gasha1]

" but the more well written responses, many of which you've seemed to ignored,"

Ben, I apologise if I have not responded to specific points; I assure you it was not intentional.

Which particular arguments do you think I should answer ?(sorry I can't really be bothered to trawl back through all the posts).