Mclaren dutch?

[Ardiles]

The point missing from your post, though, is that the reduction in top flight berths available for English players reduces competition for places in the International squad.

The players challenging Hoddle and Waddle for a place in the England line up in the 1980s were also playing top flight football.  They were visible and had the opportunity to pitch themselves against England players domestically.

By your own argument, the players who might challenge Lampard and Gerrard are, to a large extent, being shunted in to the Championship by the influx of players from abroad.  They are much less visible.  And no England manager has given serious consideration to selecting players from outside the top division anyway.

There is no question in my mind that, while the Premiership is a commercial success, it is hampering the England team.  And I'm not just talking about players either.  When the 'Big Four' are managed by a Brazilian, a Scot, a Frenchman and a Spaniard, it's no surprise that English players are less likely to consider a career in club management.  As Reg says, McLaren was deemed to be the best English candidate for the England job a few years back.  Does that not really prove the point?

[Colin Todd]

Ummm no not really. Your point about players challenging Gerrard and Lampard simply isnt true.  There are plenty of good to half decent English central midfielders playing in the premier league. Of the top of my head:  Barry, Hargreaves, Carrick, Jenas, Reo cocker, Noble, Nolan, micheal Johnson, Tom Huddlestone, Joey Barton,  I dont personally rate some of those but you get my point. They are there.

To be honest if an English player cant convince even the worst group of premiership teams to buy them ie Bolton, Wigan etc then they are of a total irrellevance to the National team because they simpy are not any good. If they play well in the championship they'll end up in the premier league one way or another within a year or 2 anyway.

As for the point about Maclaren, its not a recent phenomenon that there are not any top class English managers. The only one I can think of who has a top class reputation in the last 20 years is Bobby Robson.

There are plenty of things to blame the premier league for, but you cant blame the premier league for a problem that existed before it was even formed.

[Lumps]

Ardiles

Of the top of my head English central midfielders currently playing in the Prem include:

Jenas
Hargreaves
Cole
Carrick
Barry
Sidwell
Reo-Coker
David Dunn
Matty Taylor

That's 9 or 10 players. They're probably the next best England CM players after the current shirt holders, (although you can argue the toss over whether one or two of them should actually be starting in front of Lamps or Gerrard). What's clear is that anyone else that might have been in the top-flight in the past but is now playing in the Championship is NOT AS GOOD as the players in that list. What possible fucking benefit to the England team would it be to have another dozen mediocre players playing in the top flight in addition to them?

So instead of Lampard lining up against Diop, Mendes, Diarra et al on Saturday he'd be facing the likes of Lee Hendrie, John Harley and Jamie Scowcroft. I'm sure that'd really improve his game

[Colin Todd]

lumps and colin todd in identical post within 2 minutes shocker

[Bogus Dave]

To be fair to mclaren in this interview, its probably a better way to be understood than speaking loudly and slowly

[Reg Smeeton]

There are plenty of things to blame the premier league for, but you cant blame the premier league for a problem that existed before it was even formed.

 One of stated aims for the Premier League, was to improve the quality of the national team....I think you could argue in the early years that it started to do this.

  But it can be no coincidence that the last two winners of both the WC and Euros, contained no more than the odd then PL player. Probably Torres with Fabregas on the bench.  Even the AC of N crammed with PL players was won by Egypt with none.
 

[Lumps]

One of stated aims for the Premier League, was to improve the quality of the national team....I think you could argue in the early years that it started to do this.

  But it can be no coincidence that the last two winners of both the WC and Euros, contained no more than the odd then PL player. Probably Torres with Fabregas on the bench.  Even the AC of N crammed with PL players was won by Egypt with none.
 

I think that is a coincidence actually. It's a coincidence that the current holders of the two major international trophies are Italy and Spain, the two strongest domestic leagues alongside the PL. It's no suprise that most of their players play in their own domestic leagues. When France, with a tinpot domestic set up were cup holders most of their players played either here, in Spain or in Italy as well.

[Lumps]

lumps and colin todd in identical post within 2 minutes shocker

Shit that's not something that happens too often! If we ever agree about anything political I'll really start to worry.

[Reg Smeeton]

I think that is a coincidence actually. It's a coincidence that the current holders of the two major international trophies are Italy and Spain, the two strongest domestic leagues alongside the PL. It's no suprise that most of their players play in their own domestic leagues. When France, with a tinpot domestic set up were cup holders most of their players played either here, in Spain or in Italy as well.

 Think when France won it, there were only a couple of PL based players, probably Franck Leboeuf and Manu Petit....

[Lumps]

I can't be bothered looking up the dates but off the top of my head the players that were playing in the PL, had recently played in the PL or were about to play in the PL in that squad were:

Bartez
Deschamps
Petit
Desailly
Pirez
Viera
Djorkaeff
Pires
and LeBeouf

Which is pretty much the whole team bar Trezuget and Zidane who were in Italy. That's my point really, the best players in Europe end up here, in Series A or La Liga. But most of the Spaniards are in Spain, most of the Italians are in Italy, and most Brits are here, because they're all strong leagues that pay good money. Why's that a suprise and why should it say anything about the relative strengths of the leagues?

The only real measure of a league's strength is the performace of its teams in competition, and the line-up for the semi-finals of the CL makes it fairly clear the the PL is doing alright at the moment.

[Colin Todd]

You can add Henry and Blanc to that list as well

[Lumps]

You can add Henry and Blanc to that list as well

They were a bit later and Henry didn't play in that WC winning side from what I remember.

[Colin Todd]

I think Henry was in the Sqaud then. if not he played in their euro 200 winning side.

And blanc was propoerly shit by the time he played for united

[Lumps]

Look, can someone at least acknowledge my, admittedly very subtle, but witty play on the title of this thread to reference the genius piece of 80's pop nonsense by the self important git that is Malcolm Maclaren.

Linky Linky:

[Reg Smeeton]

 I forgot about Viera, but this is what the Prem does...hoovers up the talent after something like a WC or a Euro...that players arrived in the Prem after winning something, doesn't undermine my basic argument that since the formation of the Prem, very few major winners have been playing in it.