STFC Transfer Rumours

[Jimmy Quinn]

Late bloomers, and the money they can make from loan fees

That's a lot of late bloomers and makes you realise how good the likes of Wayne Rooney was at 17 at Everton

[Geoff the Ref]

Why do they have under 23's surely if a player isn't in the first team by 23 he needs to move on for the good of his own career as the chances are he's not going to make it in the first team. Under 21's seems more appropriate and something that crept in over recent years

It does seem a bit ridiculous.  
Town sign a 20-odd year old and he’s described as a “youngster” who’s not ready for first team football whilst we’re seeing teenagers playing in Premier League first teams.  
I agree that Under 21 would seem to be far more relevant, but I’m not totally with you when you say that a 23 year old player probably isn’t going to make it in the first team.  Benda is a good example of a player that potentially has a golden future ahead of him, and similar things are being said about Jerry Yates.

[Jimmy Quinn]

It does seem a bit ridiculous.  
Town sign a 20-odd year old and he’s described as a “youngster” who’s not ready for first team football whilst we’re seeing teenagers playing in Premier League first teams.  
I agree that Under 21 would seem to be far more relevant, but I’m not totally with you when you say that a 23 year old player probably isn’t going to make it in the first team.  Benda is a good example of a player that potentially has a golden future ahead of him, and similar things are being said about Jerry Yates.

Good points you make. Benda is slightly different as goalkeepers seem to develop later and play at a good level into their mid 30's. Yates is an interesting one as he could go on to better things but at 23 Rotherham didn't seem to rate him last season in league one and he's still unproven at that level. It does happen though as Ian Wright was a late developer and had a great scoring record in the Premiership

[Geoff the Ref]

Good points you make. Benda is slightly different as goalkeepers seem to develop later and play at a good level into their mid 30's. Yates is an interesting one as he could go on to better things but at 23 Rotherham didn't seem to rate him last season in league one and he's still unproven at that level. It does happen though as Ian Wright was a late developer and had a great scoring record in the Premiership

Yes, indeed, about Benda and goalkeepers.  What Rotherham’s view of Yates was is unclear, as they obviously realised that he was marketable.  So often in the current circumstances, clubs are unwilling to invest time and effort in particular players simply because they don’t feature in the current manager’s current thinking.  That means they stay as bench warmers or they move on.  Some clubs see things differently - Southampton is a good example of a club that grows players and often sees them as a longer-term investment.  Not many other top-flight clubs do that.  Liverpool, maybe.

[McGurk's Missus]

Surely PL2 (which hosts most of the U23 sides) is just the reserves? Academy culture has seen the rise in numbers of "Stars of Tomorrow" so it's pretty likely that many get "stuck" in the reserves/u23s or if lucky get loaned out.

Town don't really have the set up or infrastructure (yet) for a modern style reserves/u23s/u21s. It's academy graduate potentially with the chance of a pro deal after 2 years. They basically have to be good enough as soon as they leave the academy with no bridging, unless they also go on loan, if lucky enough to get a deal or they literally are binned. Was certain Ralph Graham (the CGP) had received good plaudits from Wellens and had been involved in 1st team training. Can't say if it was due to covid or not but was surprised at seeing him gone.

I couldn't say what works best long term for players individually, having zero bridge so having to work a bid harder or having a complete structure with several safety nets along the way. The latter to me whilst great could create a sense of security that hasn't really been earnt by the player Yet most of the bigger clubs do seem to have the latter.

Also, some of these clubs do sign a player at about 16 on a 5yr deal yet they never even sniff the 1st team bench, let alone sit on it.

[Jimmy Quinn]

Surely PL2 (which hosts most of the U23 sides) is just the reserves? Academy culture has seen the rise in numbers of "Stars of Tomorrow" so it's pretty likely that many get "stuck" in the reserves/u23s or if lucky get loaned out.

Town don't really have the set up or infrastructure (yet) for a modern style reserves/u23s/u21s. It's academy graduate potentially with the chance of a pro deal after 2 years. They basically have to be good enough as soon as they leave the academy with no bridging, unless they also go on loan, if lucky enough to get a deal or they literally are binned. Was certain Ralph Graham (the CGP) had received good plaudits from Wellens and had been involved in 1st team training. Can't say if it was due to covid or not but was surprised at seeing him gone.

I couldn't say what works best long term for players individually, having zero bridge so having to work a bid harder or having a complete structure with several safety nets along the way. The latter to me whilst great could create a sense of security that hasn't really been earnt by the player Yet most of the bigger clubs do seem to have the latter.

Also, some of these clubs do sign a player at about 16 on a 5yr deal yet they never even sniff the 1st team bench, let alone sit on it.

Nowadays football clubs have too many players on their books when in reality most of the younger ones will never make it with Swindon a god example over recent years. Also if you're an established Premiership player is it worth going to the likes of Chelsea other than for money as the chances of becoming a regular is quite slim with Scott Parker & Kevin Drinkwater as two examples who were regulars at their previous clubs and no more than bench warmers when they left

[McGurk's Missus]

...you're an established Premiership player is it worth going to the likes of Chelsea other than for money as the chances of becoming a regular is quite slim with Scott Parker & Kevin Drinkwater as two examples who were regulars at their previous clubs and no more than bench warmers when they left

Think you mean Danny Drinkwater (I hear he should drink more often) but I get what you mean. Think the same can be said for John Stones to a degree. To me, an absolutely cracking CB but is wasted at Man City. A player like him and the ones you mention should be getting full seasons of game time in at top level.

Is that down to the vast array of talent (homegrown and abroad) or does the individuals own desire and commitment come into question too? Sure, they likely all want to play but when not playing for a few weeks and that monthly salary still pings into the account, maybe the motivation goes out the window a little. Especially if, like many at the top, you're on a long term deal. I'm certain this is why we see players up their game in the final year of a contract. For me that is a poor attitude and work ethic but if the culture creates the environment...do we blame the individual for not doing more or the structure that has led them to this very lucrative and secure position?

[Jimmy Quinn]

Think you mean Danny Drinkwater (I hear he should drink more often) but I get what you mean. Think the same can be said for John Stones to a degree. To me, an absolutely cracking CB but is wasted at Man City. A player like him and the ones you mention should be getting full seasons of game time in at top level.

Is that down to the vast array of talent (homegrown and abroad) or does the individuals own desire and commitment come into question too? Sure, they likely all want to play but when not playing for a few weeks and that monthly salary still pings into the account, maybe the motivation goes out the window a little. Especially if, like many at the top, you're on a long term deal. I'm certain this is why we see players up their game in the final year of a contract. For me that is a poor attitude and work ethic but if the culture creates the environment...do we blame the individual for not doing more or the structure that has led them to this very lucrative and secure position?

No idea where Danny came from!
The problem is squads are too big and the big clubs are desperate to have as many top class players as possible and are wealthy enough to offer them 50000-20000k per week which they will gladly accept even though there's a good chance they won't be a regular in the first team. Is it good for football no as straight away they lose their motivation when they become a big squad player but who can blame them as they instantly become millionaires. Years ago playing for your country meant everything to players but now it seems to be an inconvenience getting in the way of the champions league.
I agree John Stones career has gone backwards at Man City but will he leave a prestigious Premiership club to kick start his career or is he content in playing the odd game and sitting on the bench.

[Dr Pierre Chang]

James Norwood linked on loan from Ipswich (striker).

Kovar the keeper linked.

[Hyabb17]

Man U. Letting young keeper Kovar go out on loan. Swindon about to snap up.

[Bogus Dave]

Norwood would be a good signing

[Crispy]

It does say in the Nixon tweet they would prefer a sale rather than our loan offer.

[Riddick]

Of course they would, he is on a fortune! Only leaves permanently if Ipswich pay him off as part of the deal.

Wonder how many loans we end up with. We had 6 last season and May ended up not playing (which was a blessing).

Two in so far plus we know we are loaning a keeper. Two spots. I had assumed we would use those for u21 players (outside salary cap) not for veteran players.

[Hyabb17]

I can’t see how we could afford his wages, Ippo won’t want to make the mistake Bradford did.

[Jimmy Quinn]

Of course they would, he is on a fortune! Only leaves permanently if Ipswich pay him off as part of the deal.

Wonder how many loans we end up with. We had 6 last season and May ended up not playing (which was a blessing).

Two in so far plus we know we are loaning a keeper. Two spots. I had assumed we would use those for u21 players (outside salary cap) not for veteran players.

Let's hope Wellens has a decent proven striker lined up plus maybe one on loan as scoring goals in league could be hard