CVA Question

[STFC_Gazza]

Should the club be unsuccessful in renegotiating the CVA and HM Customs and Excise know there is a consortium who can meet these commitments can they force the club to sell up to them to pay off the creditors before talking about liquidation?

[RobertT]

believe so.

[Panda Paws]

Should the club be unsuccessful in renegotiating the CVA and HM Customs and Excise know there is a consortium who can meet these commitments can they force the club to sell up to them to pay off the creditors before talking about liquidation?

Yes, the admistrator is obliged to sell the club's assets if someone is willing to buy. Obviously the object for the admistrator is to get maximum payback for the creditors.

[millom red]

This 7 day put up or shut up thing is quite frankly absurd when you consider that if the consortium decide to fight dirty, then they can force the boards hand with this little beauty.
 :thumbs:

If thats what it takes..........

[horlock07]

I noticed on thisis that someone has posted a link to the list of creditors for the CVA. Couple of things:

I am very surprised that the police or Council are not chasing more if they know we in theory have money or a new owner to apy them off.

secondly, does anyone know why we owe Leyton Orient the grand total of £12.07?

Thirdly I hope that Vodafone are strongly chasing up the 18p that we appear to owe them!

[RobertT]

that was me, it;s the list for the 1st Admin and CVA, the second one in 2002 was probably bigger and bigger values.  It used to ba avilable on Hacker Younds website but has vanished it seems.  Any creditor can provide a copy of it though.

[STFC_Gazza]

I noticed on thisis that someone has posted a link to the list of creditors for the CVA. Couple of things:

I am very surprised that the police or Council are not chasing more if they know we in theory have money or a new owner to apy them off.

secondly, does anyone know why we owe Leyton Orient the grand total of £12.07?

Thirdly I hope that Vodafone are strongly chasing up the 18p that we appear to owe them!

I guess those bottom totals are all liabilities etc at the time.... I assume these are the figure that were broken down?> I dont know how much to the pound the got but I would multiply those figures by that .

[Hexagon]

I noticed on thisis that someone has posted a link to the list of creditors for the CVA. Couple of things:

I am very surprised that the police or Council are not chasing more if they know we in theory have money or a new owner to apy them off.

secondly, does anyone know why we owe Leyton Orient the grand total of £12.07?

Thirdly I hope that Vodafone are strongly chasing up the 18p that we appear to owe them!

You got the link for that, would be an interesting read.
Cheers

[RobertT]

http://www.thisisstfc.co.uk/news_headlines_Story.asp?NewsID=349

It's only the non pref creditors.  We owed the Revenue about £400k and about £150k to Excise as well

[Hexagon]

Thank you Rob

[genf_stfc]

At the risk of resurrecting an old post, I found this site about all things to do with CVAs:

http://companyrescue.co.uk/company-rescue/options/company-voluntary-arrangement.html

Also the links onthe left go to sections on debentures, insolvency, conduct of directors etc.  Not that one usually hears this said about accountancy and finance, but its interesting reading...

[redbullzeye]

Reading through some of that, I'm amazed a CVA was agreed by the creditors in the first place given the lack of accounts.  It looks like if a CVA is to be renegotiated you have to reconvene a creditors meeting and everyone has to agree on the new plan.  With the Consortium waiting in the wings I can't see the Council or the Revenue letting this board continue a minute longer as they'll surely want their dosh asap.

[flammableBen]

http://www.thisisstfc.co.uk/news_headlines_Story.asp?NewsID=349

It's only the non pref creditors.  We owed the Revenue about £400k and about £150k to Excise as well

Uh oh, we owe vodaphone £0.18

[Frigby Daser]

I did a bit of digging on this one in the last few days. As I understand it, a creditors meeting can be reconvened for a readjustment, and a readjustment would need to be favoured by 75% vote, weighted accordingly to the debt owed.

In our case, the main creditor, by quite some margin is HMRC. Should they approve the CVA readjustment then it should be enough to pass it. Minor creditors would therefore have little say - whilst they can vote against a readjustment, those against most be greater than 25% of the debt owed.

Whether or not HMRC will agree to the readjustment is another matter - I'm still working on that one! All I do know is that apparently they are likely to treat a football club differently to other businesses, taking into account the fanbase (someone does!) and perhaps the future ill-effect on the local economy - so would be less likely to refuse a readjustment.

Our situation is somewhat unique though - the Fans Consortium's ability to meet the debts immediately means that there would be no need to treat the club as favourably in a readjustment - bt this is dependant on whether HMRC are aware of the bid.

And here's the crux of it all - and why I reckon they're stalling on a takeover. I think the board are mighty close to having the CVA renegotiated. Once talks are under way with the Fans Consortium and a formal offer is made the club may be obliged to disclose this to HMRC. Until that point, I very much doubt they are obliged. If they were to open talks then HMRC would treat the readjustment in a completely different light, perhaps refusing it, thus opening the gates to a bid by the consortium of next to nothing which an administrator would be compelled to accept.

So....anybody reading this who has a contact at HMRC, or is a creditor, dig out your paperwork on the CVA, find the phone number/email address (preferably TALK) to someone and let the know i) that there is a viable offer on the table and ii) suspicions that the board may be stalling in order to allow for the readjustment.

Could be fairly urgent....

[Frigby Daser]

I did a bit of digging on this one in the last few days. As I understand it, a creditors meeting can be reconvened for a readjustment, and a readjustment would need to be favoured by 75% vote, weighted accordingly to the debt owed.

In our case, the main creditor, by quite some margin is HMRC. Should they approve the CVA readjustment then it should be enough to pass it. Minor creditors would therefore have little say - whilst they can vote against a readjustment, those against most be greater than 25% of the debt owed.

Whether or not HMRC will agree to the readjustment is another matter - I'm still working on that one! All I do know is that apparently they are likely to treat a football club differently to other businesses, taking into account the fanbase (someone does!) and perhaps the future ill-effect on the local economy - so would be less likely to refuse a readjustment.

Our situation is somewhat unique though - the Fans Consortium's ability to meet the debts immediately means that there would be no need to treat the club as favourably in a readjustment - bt this is dependant on whether HMRC are aware of the bid.

And here's the crux of it all - and why I reckon they're stalling on a takeover. I think the board are mighty close to having the CVA renegotiated. Once talks are under way with the Fans Consortium and a formal offer is made the club may be obliged to disclose this to HMRC. Until that point, I very much doubt they are obliged. If they were to open talks then HMRC would treat the readjustment in a completely different light, perhaps refusing it, thus opening the gates to a bid by the consortium of next to nothing which an administrator would be compelled to accept.

So....anybody reading this who has a contact at HMRC, or is a creditor, dig out your paperwork on the CVA, find the phone number/email address (preferably TALK) to someone and let the know i) that there is a viable offer on the table and ii) suspicions that the board may be stalling in order to allow for the readjustment.

Could be fairly urgent....