Thetownend.com

THE SAM MORSHEAD COLUMN: Trust is a very valuable commodity for Robins
           
           


  THERE is something amiss in this world when proactive football fans have their initiative mocked for no real reason.

           

http://www.thisisswindontownfc.co.uk/news/headlines/11329948.THE_SAM_MORSHEAD_COLUMN__Trust_is_a_very_valuable_commodity_for_Robins/?ref=rss
           
           
           

 That's aimed at some on here. You know who you are  :)

Why the fuck do some people seem to have the idea that they are beyond criticism? Bullshit!

I'm actually quite indifferent toward the trust but that some people do get so defensive about them gets under my skin and, if anything, helps turn me against them.

I don't get the grasshopper / ant thing  ???

Morshead is criticising, not only the Trust but all STFC fans....had we used the opportunity of the good Black/Fitton years to build up the Trust, then we could have been in a position to have bought the club for quid rather than McCrory.

Don't think anyone has that idea? It's perhaps more case that for a group of people trying their best to help steer the club in the right direction/represent fans' views in a focused way/be ready to act as an emergency backstop for a club that routinely dips into crisis, they don't merit the level of invective they get from some. There's certainly an argument to be made as to how successful the Trust are or have been at meeting any of their stated aims, but to read some of the stuff on here/the Adver comments, you'd think they were the ones who were trying to rob 6 figure sums out of the club. Often by some of the same people who treated the few critical sceptics of JedCo as "doom and gloom merchants"

Seems to me all Sam's doing is calling for a sense of perspective, not saying they are beyond criticism. That kind of argument to the extremes is the same "everything is black and white" approach that wants to label every poster as a doom merchant or a happy clapper, there are shades of grey in between.

I disagree Paul. Some people do get defensive the minute that anything is said that does not put the trust in a positive light. It is tiresome.

'Snide comments'? Bullshit. Somebody thinking that an entity is not up to scratch and voicing that opinion is not, necessarily being snide. My opinion is that they are unorganised, incompetent and impotent. Is that snide? NO. I'm just being honest.

If it appeared to me that the trust were getting their act together then I would be more supportive but until then my opinion will remain the same and I know that I am by no means in the minority.

Every fucking time there is a discussion about the trust we get all of the butt-hurt defensiveness and very little, if any, constructiveness.

I hope none of you are at home when posting, Sam wouldn't like that.

Seems it's not only the Trust who are a little defensive? :) See your point, though, and don't necessarily disagree - just because an organisation has good aims doesn't mean it's beyond criticism. But I don't think the article was saying they are. Just asking for some restraint/perspective/understanding. And maybe some constructive criticism of which there tends to be very little (as opposed to the jayo style "Yah boo sucks you're all shit" style of which there's plenty)

I was but I popped out into the street and posted from my phone, just to be on the safe side :)

My main gripe is what are they achieving. Every tweet they put up at the moment is either just a repeat of an answer off the radio or how they have got an ex player to join the trust.

I have been reading for 3 years what they want to achieve,i get what they are trying to do i really do and i am not have snide digs at them it just seems they are doing the same thing over and over again with no real result

How does me disagreeing with you make me defensive?

Yep.

What do they actually do? I know they did some gubbins to help protect the ground not so long ago. Credit where credit's due.

But other then that they seem to do nothing but release the occasional bland statement. So what do they actually do?

Have you considered joining up and getting involved to try and achieve the sort of changes you'd like to see?

Touchy is probably a better description  :)

I think that is a problem of having such significant and long-term objectives - they can't realistically deliver these things without years of effort - if not decades in the case of some. Some might not ever be possible. Short-term stuff, such as fundraising is surely best left to the Supporters' Club? (although the Trust did deliver the ACV)

It must be a tricky message to get across - especially to a fan base which is often cynical at best.

Disclosure: I am a Trust member.

It's easy to have a pop from the sidelines.  Less easy to stick your neck out and fight for something you believe in.  For that reason alone, I have enormous respect for those who are having a go at making a positive difference for the club.

No-one is beyond criticism - and I think (as Sam's article alludes to) those running the Trust appreciate the mistakes of the past.  You have to start somewhere.

But most important of all, the need for having a body of fans who collectively scrutinise the dealings of those currently running the club and hold it to account is surely as clear as it can ever be...given the ridiculous saga we have just emerged from.  Regardless of how effective you think the Trust is at the moment, surely we must all now understand that there is a need for independent scrutiny by the fans?

The instinct of anyone who cares about the club should be to applaud those who want to do something - and, if they think that things could or should be done better - get involved themselves and make a change for the better.  Taking pot shots from the sidelines at people who have actually pulled their finger out and tried to do something constructive achieves fuck all.

So then nobody should voice their opinion unless it's positive?

Flash,

Join, I'll pay your quid for you, that way, you'll get updates from them direct to your inbox and you can reply and tell them what they should be doing better. Will take less time than you've spent posting on this thread alone.

As a wider point the Trust know they need to do more in terms of 'action' and I think we'll soon see more tangible results. The whole argument can seem a bit chicken and egg, the more members they have the more they can achieve, however some won't join until they've achieved something.

Not at all.


I think it's about making that criticism constructive.  Criticism that dismisses the whole effort and those who are trying to make a difference is, in my view, pointless and counterproductive.  Criticism that seeks to improve the situation (and recognises that people are actually aiming to make things better) is completely different...and welcome.

No, but understand that your opinion is likely to be seen as unhelpful.

I see both sides of the story, but irrelevant to that, it should be a no brainer that anyone who cares about STFC in any way shape or form should be a member and pay their £1.25.

With the summer we have just had that should be plain to see, love it or hate it the Trust is the only independant fans voice out there and we should build it up as much as possible so that we at least have a chance of another option should the worst happen and another shiester like Jed get his hands on the club.

I don't think a member of the trust should be on the board, but I would like to see the Trust build itself to a position that it could step in a run the club for a short period of time if Power walked away and we have no "fit and proper" buyers lined up.

I don't have any constructive criticism. But that doesn't change my opinion that they are a wet-blanket, and I am entitled to voice that opinion. The trust are also entitled to try to change my opinion and "don't say bad things about us" will not cut it.

Fair enough.  I just find that attitude very sad.  But each to their own.

That's not what anyone's saying though is it? We're saying 'Join and tell us how to do things better.'

As a broader point, the Trust aren't a bunch of politicians hoovering up huge expenses and salaries, they are a bunch of Town fans with the same family and work pressures as everyone else. Why not help them rather than immediately jump on the internet and say they are shit as soon as they are mentioned?

You want something constructive......

DO SOMETHING

I don't care what. Even putting up balloons and bunting on match-days would be a start. Just do something, ANYTHING, pro-active other than just releasing the occasional bland, impotent statement.

Were the trust involved in the loud and proud thing?

Yes i was a member for a few years

So, if say, you arrived at the County Ground for the Scunthorpe game to be met by a very visable Trust recruitment drive, you'd be willing to part with a pound then?

Not quite. I was thinking of something more altruistic toward the club, not the trust.

I was saying that if the trust was seen to be actually doing something pro-active to help the club/supporters, even something small, then I'd be more willing to part with my cash and be less critical. Not just once or twice either but on a consistent basis. You would surely benefit from recruiting additional members as a result.

The image that I get of the trust right now is a bunch of people that sit down, have the occasional chat and achieve nothing.  I think somebody said before that it's more like a political club than anything else. That's the impression that I get.

As opposed to people sat on the internet and achieving nothing?!

Seriously though I hope you'll be pleasantly surprised as the season progresses..

One of, if not their main stated aim, as far as I can tell, is to provide a conduit between fans and the club, and to make sure the fans' voices are heard by those in the boardroom.

So by attending the court hearings and establishing dialogue with Power and Shah, making their identity known to the Chairman and setting up a line of communication there, as well as I believe the ongoing communication between some of the Trust board with GM Steve Anderson, have they not 'done something'?

Full disclosure: Former trust member, lapsed membership

So they introduced themselves to some people running/managing the club? It's not a bad thing of course, but it's hardly something inspiring either!

The latest email from the Trust quite clearly stated what they'd done in the last few months and what their intentions are going forwards.

No, it was (dormantly is) completely separate. Different objectives, L&P's aim was to put effort into improving the atmosphere on match days.

Like the ACV that provides protection against the ground being asset stripped? That kind of thing?


Do you ever wonder sometimes if maybe you're part of the problem?

I think FH has to be commended for the well run WCS 2014!

I have already credited them with that in this thread.


I have already offered constructive criticism in this thread.

I'm part of the problem because I happen to hold a particular opinion that some others also share?

Sorry, missed it. (Genuinely)
No, because you stated a big problem as being "Every fucking time there is a discussion about the trust we get all of the butt-hurt defensiveness and very little, if any, constructiveness" and then said "I don't have any constructive criticism."

But then went on to say, "I was saying that if the trust was seen to be actually doing something pro-active to help the club/supporters, even something small, then I'd be more willing to part with my cash and be less critical. " Yet the ACV is pretty big, not something small, and apparently hasn't made you "more willing to part with your cash and be less critical".

But then I did try to offer something constructive.....

And what 'problem' am I a part of anyway?

If only the Trust board spent less time trying to build bridges with the owners and more time posting pictures on scantily clad women on here...

Meow

Ah, yes typing "Do something" in big letters. While ignoring the stuff they have done.
How many times do you want me to quote this?
You're providing an excellent example of both.

Execpt I didn't ignore what they have achieved. I mentioned it before anybody else did.


How am I being butt-hurt and defensive? It's a discussion. Other people are throwing around snarky comments, not myself. Am I to just keep quiet?

Fuck it. I will keep quiet. These discussion on the trust always turn out to be the same childish bullshit

that was obviously a joke, lighten up.

In that case I apologise, I missed it.

This reminds me that I should really join the Trust. Can't see the problem with them. Can't see how anyone has an issue with them. If they're so ineffectual as some perceive then surely theres' no problem. For thoers who are apathetic towards them again, no problem. For those who are members then they are a democratic instiution so again no problem.  

The impression that I get from this conversation is that, with a few adjustments, the Trust might well be able to win over a lot of doubters.

I don't dismiss the concerns of folk who have not been won over.  Far from it.  I actually agree with a lot of what Flash (& others) are saying about publicity etc.  The Trust should make more capital from the ACV success, for example, that was instrumental - apparently - in flushing McCrory out.  And it should also make itself more visible on match days, getting fans to join up and doing things that they are not currently doing, week in & week out, to benefit the club.

There's a way to go, but the impression I have now is of a body that is moving in the right direction and that is attracting net new members.

This possibly illustrates the matter, the matters that came to a head this summer have been bubbling away for a prolonged period of time, what has the Trust been doing during that time?

I really do support the principle and have been a member in the past, but not really sure what they can achieve. Plus if I am honest the whole Wray incident and the response that if you wanted to know what was said I should have attended the meeting soured things a little as it did suggest a little club that if you lived away from Town was not open to you.

Well I think it’s only fair I give credit where it’s due, especially having been one of the naysayers ;)

I liked the last statement the Trust put out backing the chairman of the club. It was better than ‘cautiously welcoming’ someone which I always thought probably didn’t do themselves any favours with the club officials. It will be interesting to see if the Trust can develop more of a meaningful dialogue/relationship with the club rather than the game of hide and seek which seems to take place (which is an inherent issue with the club and fans).

Also, whether you like the tweets or not at least they’re putting themselves in the public eye and marketing/pushing the Trust more than recent times. If they can get more coverage and attention it will make their potential influence greater.

I still won’t be re-joining as a member though :)

To be fair to Flash, I was the exact same as him. I joined last year to see what was being done but I didn't feel that they were actually doing anything.

I have to give them credit recently, they have been open and I think they are now beginning to form into something that could be decent.

Out of interest Flashheart, were you supportive of the Red Army Fund scheme? And would this kind if initiative, if reintroduced, help to make the Trust more purposeful in your eyes?

Genuine question, given that it only costs a pound, what would it take to change your mind?

Sure.

It's still going isn't it? At least, I think there's still money coming out of my account every month so if it isn't who's been having my dosh? ;)

You have been funding Jed for the last 12 months and you never knew it!

Yes Paul, the money is still going into the RAF bank account, which is seperate to the main Trust bank account, as the money is 'ringfenced'.

The Trust is a great idea as far as I can see.  

The problem seems to be that as has been said before - it sat on it's laurels and did nothing during the Black era, and because of this was too far behind the curve during Jed's time to see what was really happening.

At the height of Diamond Mike I think the Trust did a great job in bringing people together and uniting against him.  There were an awful lot of people who would have remained apathetic as they were not in any way informed - the Trust went a long way to "outing" some of the shit, nonsense and underhand dealings that he bought to the club

I get a lot of peoples apathy towards the Trust, and think that if they want to be taken seriously they need to engage more with all the supporters -- not just members

I used to think the Supporters Club were a bit of a joke to be honest.  What I have seen and learned in the past year is that they are actually pretty damn effective in raising money for the club (over £500K) and they have a highly visible presence around the club both on match and non match days.

Perhaps the Trust could look at working together or alongside the Supporters Club in some way to help raise their profile within the club ?

I don't really get why Flashheart just wants to sit behind his keyboard and slag the Trust off -- I understand (as I said previously) peoples current apathy towards them --- but to be so closed that you cannot even hear what you are saying to yourself seems a little daft !

So then I shouldn't voice my opinion?

Bollocks to that

What he said!

Is there any scope to combine the Supporters Club and the Trust - not sure why we need both?

Going by this tweet, there appears to be some animosity between the 2:

I think they fulfil different functions - the SC does a great job of fundraising as you say, the recent purchase of the fitness monitoring system being a superb example of that, but has always had an explicit policy of uncritical support of the club, which is probably about right for a Supporters' Club and also probably necessary for them to keep engaged with the club so they can fulfil their main function. Whereas the Trust is more about providing supporters with a (sometimes critical) voice within (or sometimes from outside) the club.

If you mix the two, you run the risk that the newly merged SC/Trust wouldn't want to make criticisms that perhaps need making for fear of jeopardising a long-running fundraising effort for example. Or that it didn't hold back and so did scupper a fundraising or other "non-political" initiative.

I think they both fulfil an important role within the life of the club and we need both, personally.

Not at all Flashheart - you can say what you want.....

But don't go disagreeing with me for having an opinion on what you say - that was exactly your point :)

Actually, the relationship between the two is pretty good. The Chair of the Trust, Steve Mytton has known Roger Bunce, the chair of the SC for a number of years.

I think the old way of thinking is that they serve completely different functions personally

I think a slightly more grown up way of thinking might be to in some way put the two forces together for the good of the Club - not the good of who owns the club.

I'm pretty sure the SC aims are to help the club - whoever is in charge
I'm pretty sure the Trusts aims are to help the club - dependant on who is in charge

Right now we are in a situation where the Trust has absolutely thrown it's weight behind Power & Co.  Likewise the SC are doing the same.

Nothing to stop (IMO) the two working together with an understanding that if a sheister comes in and takes over with aims that the Trust disagree with then they could peel away and do what needs to be done.

In the meantime you possibly have a situation where the Trust can prosper utilising the SC's contacts and the fact that they are far more engrained into the club than the Trust....

Or there are irrational idiots out there who just like to complain. As Summer says, I understand the relationship between those running the two groups is good.

Furry muff. It's just how it seemed from the tweet.

I have no particularly strong positive or negative feelings regarding the Trust, probably because I haven’t taken as much of an interest in them as I should have done.

What I am very confused about though is why I haven’t ever paid out a measly £1 to join?  Not exactly a major expense.  I can’t ever remember being approached before a home game to join or seeing much of a recruitment campaign on a game day (im sure there has been and i was oblivious to it).  So I would definitely recommend to the Trust that they embark on a recruitment drive before the first 2 or 3 home games this season.  There are probably plenty of idle buggers like me who just “never got round” to joining.

I shall be joining today btw

Reading that, I found myself agreeing with you wholeheartedly.  And then I realised it's pretty much the same, word for word, as something I wrote myself on a different thread just over a year ago.   ;D

I am forever building on the shoulders of giants :)

Which reminds me, the best summary I've seen recently of the Trust's function was to be a "critical friend" (was that you as well?), the one who'll tell you yes your bum does look big in that, and no, skintight lycra is not a flattering look on a 40+ bloke, and no you are not "getting away with it". Whereas the Supporters' Club is probably the mate who just grins and says "Yeah, you're doing great, mate" and defends you against all comers even if you are being a twat. We all need both at times.

And ss, yes, not a bad shout, if you're talking about formal cooperation rather than a full merger. The two have done that before - e.g. the Red Army Fund started out as a joint initiative.

I don't think the Trust would benefit if I re-joined....I'm just not interested in being involved. If that changed I would join up again.

Definitely not a full merger - just some formal cooperation which could help both sides maybe.....

Possibly(!)  It was a phrase I heard used recently about the role of a school governor...and thought it was just as apt for the Trust.

Edit: Brilliant analogy, by the way.   ;D

Is there a place for me?

I just want to watch football.

Is that allowed?

Most of the Trust membership from about a decade ago, migrated to my thriving Quiet and Ashamed group.

I think those that know the Supporters club know that they have someone in their ranks that dislikes the Trust regardless of what they do and at times others in the SC listen to him so I dont think they could work together for this reason.

I believe that person you're talking about is no longer on their committee.

More to it than all has been mentioned

The Trust will always remain toothless given the proportion of fans that are members.

Once it gets upto 20% of the fan base or another WUP or administration, the apathetic will remain apathetic.

For god sake, when we nearly went to the wall, we had to bust a gut and virtually give away membership to get even near 1000 members.

At that point we still had plenty of resentment from the fan base as we were sullying the great name of the Wills family

That's the general dynamics of the STFC fan, if not the Swindon populous in general (myself included)

Full disclosure : Ex Trust secretary and lapsed member

As a supporter of more years than I can possibly remember can somebody please point me in the direction of the Trust AND the Supporters Club when I next approach the CG.  I don't remember seeing anybody out there being pro-active from either of them - not saying they are not active behind the scenes - half the time when you get to the ground you cannot even buy a half-time draw ticket!!

The Trust had a shedload of people in and around the ground when the Diamandis shit was about to hit te fan. Brighton at home seems to stick in my mind, I was out helping them and was genuinely surprised the people not interested.

Think you're about right with needing around 20% of the fanbase signed up to be effective.  That's about double what the Trust had at the height of the Diamandis/Wills problems, so I don't doubt that getting there will be a challenge.

But you never know.  Apathy is a problem - and there are always going to be fans who just want to go to football, enjoy a few beers with their mates and not concern themselves with off the field matters - but with a concerted push and some visible initiatives, the numbers should rise over time.  It's a long term thing.

I want to know who made the post at half two on Tuesday afternoon.

The Trust needs to recruit a few decent looking girls, get them kitted out in STFC strips, and mingle on a matchday on  a recruiting drive....JFW?

Failing that, all new members entered into a win a cuddly toy draw. 

Or a night out down the Vic with Reg - now that would be interesting!!

I joined the Trust- it costs a quid for fucks sake, what a bunch of moaning negative apathetic old cunts, "Im not joining them they haven't done anything"  Its because of fans like that clubs get shafted. Well done to those who put some effort in and try and make a difference and a big "fuck you" to those that moan about it.

Apologies, I was not aware it was still running.

Any chance of re-signing Michael Proctor, the 2 goals in 4 four games RAFunded super-striker?

Not been on in a few days. Wowwee.

Said all I've got to say on the matter, and repeated on facebook. I even used my actual name in case anyone else wants to accuse me of being an internet warrior. I have nothing to hide, and like Flashheart my opinion of the trust is negative and I don' want to get involved again.

Why do you have adverts for scantily clad Russian girls? :)

Targeted advertising.

 :hmmm:  that's a toughie.