Thetownend.com

Would you rather support a shit team in a good league, or a good team in a shit league?

(just been watching the Reading game :)).

A lot of people are saying if we go up to the Championship this year we'd come straight back down.

To play devil's advocate a minute: do you think you'd be happier next season seeing us play Championship football against better opposition each week at the expense of results and performances, or League One football each week with better performances and results against lower quality opposition?

 :hmmm:

It would be fun, to be a small fish in a big pond. We might get hammered week in week out. But it would be fun to visit different grounds

I have to say based on previous experience I enjoyed the season under Hoddle that we got promoted to the Premier League much more than the season we spent in the Premier League getting hammered week in & week out.

That said, the (few) good days in the Premier League when we managed to get some positive results against the likes of Man Utd, Liverpool, Arsenal & Spurs were great

I don't go to games to watch the opposition - I go to be entertained by Swindon.

There is no point in being in a higher league if you are not competitive.

The PL season was a one off -  its a bit different with Arsenal at the CG and, say, Middlesbrough

Would be nice to refamiliarise ourselves with some grounds we've not had the chance to vist in a few years, additionaly experience some of the newer venues. The away day adventure counts for a lot. Also some decent away followings might help energise the County Ground atmosphere.

A very good point.

I think a bit of yo-yoing is probably the most entertaining for the fans.  Enjoying the occasional promotion makes up for suffering the occasional relegation.

Championship football. Why wouldn't anyone want it? I want the joy of seeing us go back there, even if it only lasts a few matches when we are there. If we don't all want promotion what is the point of football.

Besides which, small clubs have survived in the Championship.

The best thing in football is winning.

Unless you're in the top division then a fantastic season with lots of wins mean promotion to a better league which is highly likely to result in a season filled with many more losses. I think in this case it's better to take the rough with the smooth.

The alternative is to be Oldham win some, lose some, go nowhere and just make up the numbers.

The best way to progress is probably the West Brom way. Go up spend a little, bank a lot. Go back down, come back up, spend a little bit more, bank a lot. Go back down, come back up. Spend some more which 3rd time is enough to establish yourself, bank a bit. That's the way to do yoyoing.

I'd love to get into the Championship!  Selfishly as there are more away days that are closer, but I believe our style of football lends itself to a higher level, we'll need a consistent goal scorer though!

I'd like to be a big fish in a small pond and as we've never been a non-league team, we should try it sometime.

I think I saw you on Sky Spoorts the other day.

[url width=329 height=248]http://i216.photobucket.com/albums/cc62/javajunky90/windowlicker.jpg[/url]


:) :) :) :) :)

Bear with me as I pontificate somewhat.

I was always of the opinion that the European Cup would be a fore runner to an European " Super League" based purely upon the monetary side of things. EUEFA pre-emptied that by changing the competition into a divisional format (i.e. more games = more money + more TV coverage etc.) so knocking the need for such a League and all the associated administration problems on the head.

Like wise in a similar vein I can see that there will be a "second" Premier League Division in the (not too disant) future for the very same reason. Money being being the driving factor (parachute payments already having an effect) and I really want us to be in the mix if it ever happens, so I am on the Shit Team Good League side.

This is the stuff.

The way the leagues are moving apart, we need to get into the champo in the next couple of years to stand a chance of making it back there again. If we go up this/next year and come down straight after it doesn't matter, as long as the money that we earn gets invested into the club. And by that I don't mean purely player salaries, I mean bricks and mortar, infrastructure etc. that mean when we do get back up we have a chance of sticking there.

Honestly, if by yo-yoing we turn into a 'solid championship standard' team, like Burnley or Brum in the next 5/10 years I will be a happy bunny. If that includes a foray into the Premiership, I wouldn't say no, even if we are whipping boys.

In other words, shit team good league every time. I'm not going to stop following the Town, whatever division they're in, whatever the results are. Such is the way of being a proper supporter.

This!

It was much better following STFC when we were on our rise up from Dive 4 through to the Premiership. I stopped enjoying going to games when we drew at home in the FA Cup against West Ham. For me, it all got a bit too serious from there.

I think I'd definitely take being a shit team in a good league for a change of scenery next year, but would probably get sick of it after a couple of seasons and start moaning.

The futile purgatory suffered by Stoke fans seems the worst long term eventuality for a club.

It's an entertainment sport after all, not a watch them grind their way to survival this year so you can watch them grind their way to survival again next year to be able to watch them grind their way to survival again in the next kind of sport. If you're not using survival as a base from which to build towards something greater then I don't see the point.

Last season, in the bottom tier, was one of the most enjoyable and exciting seasons I can remember.............. and I wasn't even there.

I would love a season in the Championship - getting there once would alter the whole mindset around the club - we've done it once we can do it again. As others have said, a bit of yo-yoing isn't a bad thing.

Also, I would love to change the perception of other people about Swindon Town FC, so they wouldn't see us as quite so tin pot.

When we played Stoke I was having a read on their forums. Was surprised by the number of their fans that would prefer them to play decent football and get relegated, than playing shit football and staying in the PL. Can see their point, once the initial excitement of being in the PL wears off it must get pretty boring.

Ah ha, now you're coming over to my "dark side" way of opinion as to one of many reasons why I won't get a ST in the PL, assuming we get there in my liftime. Cue burning torches and pitch forks.

[url width=600 height=251]http://www.whoateallthepies.tv/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/Simpsons-Angry-Mob.png[/url]

That's them, the fuckers. Got my stash of petrol to put out the flames.

To be really serious about this I know I piss some of you off with my posts but I do try to be objective and think things through. One liners are ok but constant one liners and abuse loses the point and you get ignored.

I remember the PL season like it was yesterday. We were cannon fodder most games, trust me when you see the negative posts on here after losing and even worse ones in the adver and then those drongoes on BBC Swindon after the games currently, you'll wish we were back in the Championship winning a few.

The constant dicking around with kick off dates and times will hack you off too, it's worse now than when we were there last time. The prawn sandwich glory hunters who will not be there the following season and the away supporters who have "loaned a seat" from someone who is just cashing in on the seat they bought and has no intention of using, trust me I never saw the same ppl twice in the two seats next to me in the Arkells. The old boy from Andover on the other side of my ex father in law disappeared the next season to.

The cost will be extortionate too. Only 18 home games remeber NOT 23, £19.50 a home game based on current ST prices for next year. 28% increase, now assuming we ever get there your £350 early bird would infact be £450 minimum based on current ground capacity etc = £25.00 walk up on the day £30? £35?

PL? Not the promised land. Yeah for all you young 'uns who were not around when Hoddle took us there it looks good on telly. Unless we have a significantly increased capacity and monied benefators willing to bankroll the then manager with the players needed to keep us there then I see another car crash.   

Be interesting to see what crowd Crew v Southend get at Wembley today.

I'll go on record saying I'd be quite happy to go up, be cannon fodder for one season and then come straight back down again.  Why?  Because that means we won promotion from the Championship.  You saying you'd rather finish just outside the play-offs (or lose in them) every season Fatbasher?

Seen reports that Crewe will take about 10,000 and Sarfend (first time at Wembley for over 80 years) have sold 33,000

.

As we all know it's an expensive day out.  Crewe were only there in the play offs last May as well, which might have reduced their numbers this time?

Think you may be doing Stoke a bit of a disservice here...they have been building, I was up that way last week and stumbled across their Academy...in Swindon it would pass off as an FE College...light years ahead of anything we could offer.  They've been in Europe and a Cup Final recently.

I'd happily take that sort of stagnation....it's us that resemble Sisyphus....almost getting somewhere but not quite then falling back again..now that is purgatory.

Enjoy your posts, Fatbasher, but for me to lack ambition to play in a higher league is pretty sad. 

If you're not good enough for the league above, whether it be in the boardroom, on the coaches' bench or on the pitch then so be it, you're back down - that's football.  There is no long term safety about holding your position as a good team in a shit league anyway. 

Who can forget the Macari to McMuck years (McMuck's first two anyway) when we seemed to go up or down every year.  A few years on, under Sturrock I believe, we became the only club to have played a league game at every other football league club ground. 

The reality may turn out to be that we will always struggle now and have an elite 3,000 core support - but for now, bring on thosands of day trippers and away fans and prawn sandwiches even if it does all end up again eating pies at Spotland on a wet Tuesday night, we will have been on a heck of journey, once again.

I'd rather bounce through the leagues then stagnate in one league like villa or liverpool

I like Sisyphus, Reg - better than shrugging your shoulders and staying put, surely?

But our yoyoing is the Sisyphean condition. We stay put by going up and down the leagues..

Try if you dare a bit of Richard Wright's opus from Ummagumma...Sisyphus part 1.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P4l_osaLf-w

I think I prefer the good team in a shit league scenerio myself. Last season was brilliant and we were clearly too good for L2. I feel this season as good as it has been at times hasn't come close to last. Also it hasn't come close to 03/04 or 09/10 either which were both play-off seasons at this level. There was a buzz around the club in them 2 seasons but that buzz doesn't seem to be here this season yet results wise we're no worse off.

I'd like a season in the Championship though having said all that. I don't care if we finish bottom it's been ages since we have played at that level and I think all of us would appreciate the change of scenery even if only for 12 months.

Come the end of this month we'll know whether we're facing the play-offs again or not. I know we all have bad memories of losing at Wembley the other year or of that famous Brighton game but as a football fan there's nothing quite like the play-offs. You got through every emotion and just think of that win at Charlton. Really it's what being a fan is all about. When the good times come you make the most of them whether it be L2 or the PL.

encapsulates the STFC mission perfectly, - hadn't bothered with this opus since Ihe days of vinyl (unlike "Careful with that axe, Paolo Eugene")

Would still be the initial excitement for me. I'd have a season ticket and go to as many away as I could.

But after a few seasons of shit football maintaining mid-table mediocrity I could see my interest waning.

Football's inherently Sisyphean, regardless of division or success of your team. You can never truly 'win' the football to paraphrase a Mitchell and Webb sketch. It just goes on forever. You're always going to roll back to the bottom some time. The most compelling thing is the journey, the destination is just a Macguffin on the horizon to give that journey meaning.

Being a Swindon fan over the last six years has been like going on a rollercoaster sitting between heaven (promotions, Wembley finals, rich benefactors) and hell (relegation, losing our manager/ best player, the threat of administration/ liquidation) that's gone out of control, climbing and diving between them. Being a Stoke fan over the same period has been like paying more for a seat on a stable monorail through a beautiful city (the Premier League) where you can look out the window at all the nice things everyone else has you can never have for yourself.

I know which one I'm happier to have ridden over the last six years however miserable I was during the lows.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MusyO7J2inM

I like your monorail analogy....I'd see it more as one of those monorails in a theme park, whereby you can go round watching all sorts of pointless activities...in the middle will be an artificially created bit that's supposed to be super exciting (Prem League) as a Stoke fan you can get off and go and play if you want. If you're a Town fan you'd be more inclined to bypass that bit, you may observe and wonder what the fuss is about before alighting at the relatively empty cup and saucer ride hidden away in the corner (Div 3)

I honestly believe IF we go up, we'll do OK in the Championship.  We play well against decent teams & our playing style deserves to be at a higher level.

Exactly my thoughts, teams we haven't played for ages, different grounds.

I've seen the likes of Tranmere, Colchester, Oldham enough times over the last 10-12 years to last me a lifetime.

Being a yo-yo team isn't a problem and that doesn't constitute stagnation. I'd be happy for us to be a L1/Championship yo-yo side - it's nice playing other teams, want to get to more away games again too.

don't think we will go up but will need huge investment in players if we do. Our squad is very ordinary even by league 1 standards.

Sadly you're right. So, do the current guardians have the financial muscle?

time will tell but I aint holding my breath. The last minute loan deals were hardly inspiring so they have it all to do.