Thetownend.com

Watkins defends FA Cup shirt sponsor
           

  SWINDON Town chief executive Nick Watkins has defended the club’s decision to create a special FA Cup kit for this year’s tournament that will be sponsored by The People newspaper.

           

http://www.thisisswindontownfc.co.uk/news/headlines/9337923.Watkins_defends_FA_Cup_shirt_sponsor/?ref=rss
           

I think the club have scored a home goal here.

Hopefully the 10 figure sum covers the cost of the stayaway fans that won't come because we are playing in a white kit.

Sadly, this is modern day football, and it looks like we're going to just have to get on with it.

I think it's safe to say it will. The amount of people who will miss the game for this reason will probably be a similar number to those who are boycotting games due to PDC, only a handfull.

Dreadfull decision this kit but I can't comprehend missing a game because of a kit!

Anyone who says they aren't going because of a kit colour/sponsor needs their heads examined. The Sponsor bit was 20 years ago, move on.

Own goal, it's own goal.

I'm a bit surprised how prevalent this attitude is. That period was probably the most important in the club's recent history and should have become one of the defining features of our identity, being passed down to each new generation of supporters to foster an us against the world attitude. Instead it seems a lot of people couldn't give a fuck, or don't even know about it, and the story lives on only in the hearts and minds of those who were there.

I'm not saying people should spend every waking moment grinding their teeth over it, but kicking off over the cunts who helped stir everything up having their name on our shirts seems fair enough. It sounds like even Watkins recognises it's a far from ideal situation.

Would anyone really stay away cos we're not playing in red?
Do people really care that much about what colour shirt we play in - same team, players, badge, name...?
Do we actually have that many sad cases amongst us?

So many questions...

I would of had to make a big effort to get to this game, so probably wont bother now.

Playing in white at home is wrong.

The People singled us out as there is no way they would of taken a big club on...and we all knew it was going on all over the place.

They were right with what they reported though? It's a bit churlish to hold a grudge against a newspaper for doing its job

Can't say I'm that arsed about it.

Only speaking for myself, but I really couldn't give a monkeys about this, and will be heading to the match to take part in the usual Arkells unco-ordinated clapping.

Would I rather we play in red? Yes
Am I bitter that other teams were doing/have done the same as us or worse without punishment? Yes
Do I understand the club have to bring in all the revenue they can? yes

Apart from it not being red I'm not bothered.

This has all the makings of it being on tv. Why would The People shell out all that money on the Town and and then hope it's one of the fixtures shown on tv? They want exposure as every business does and for it not to be banded around live would be a complete waste of everyone's time.

Thin end of the wedge......you have to show distain at this sort of thing and ensure the club knows it.

You never know somebody could buy the club and think 'fuck the fans, i'll relocate to another part of the country'...but that would never happen would it!?

Football and supporting your club (and i mean actually going to matches) is all about History and tradition...remembering the good times and never forgeting the bad.

Wearing a different coloured shirt in the playoff final didnt bother me that much as it was a one off match but wearing white for a home game in the FA Cup for fucks sake......for money....from a publication that stamped on a little club when there were bigger fish to fry.....no way....i was there and i dont forget.

That does not make me a sad case IMHO......

Do I think being sponsored by the People looks tacky?
Yes.
Do I think we need a separate FA Cup sponsor anyway?
No.
Do I still hold a grudge against the People for their part in the financial irregularities scandal?
Not really.  Let's not shoot the messenger.
Do I think that we should be playing in red at home?
Yes, definitely.

I do like Nick Watkins, but I think does sound/come across as an outsider in this.  Love of the club is wrapped up in sentiment and things like the colour of the shirt, which identify us as a club, matters enormously to fans.  And of course memories are going to be long.

I think its a disgrace personally. Lets sell out to the newsapaper that shafted us royally, almost ruining the club in the process.

I would've hope we would have stood up to them and told them where to go, but sadly money talks. I don't care about colour of shirt, just the principal.

"Bend over Mr Watkins, the people from The People are here to see you"

I don't agree with the kit or sponsor, but it won't stop me from being there on the 12th...can't miss a game of Football on Saturday to go Xmas shopping!!! We should be in red at home and playing against a team in red at home is sheer stupidity though #STFC

I totally agree.

If we are talking principles then you would never go to a match.

Everyone has there views but not to watch a match because of an event that happened over twenty years ago is piss poor in my opinion.....i am not going on a cruise this year because the titanic sunk killing my aunties budgie.

Yes we were shafted.....by our own people at the club as well as the People...i will be there watching us win :D

I think the club are wrong but i personally will not judge anybody who has a different opinion to me and decides to go.

Have a good time Leefer!!

I think he comes across as a passenger in this myself.  If he had free reign it is my opinion the club would not repeat the Wembley fuck up of playing in white when red is available. It also wouldn't choose the People as a sponsor due to its contentious nature.

However... hearing him on the radio this morning it seems the driving input was Samsungs. When your main sponsor is orchestrating such decisions to a large extent your hands are tied.

Should we allow sponsors such an influence? Well its hard to say how much Samsung benefit the club through tangibles like cold hard cash and intangibles like publicity bringing extra punters/sponsors.

Commerciality over the views of fans has been winning out in football for quite some time. Sadly.
=============
I will be going to the game. Nothing like this will stop me doing that.

That said, I am unhappy at the change to white on the bequest of a sponsor.

I'm furious at choosing The People as sponsor. This annoys me more than the kit colour. Yes it was 20 years ago, yes "somebody" would have reported it. But the fact remains it was The People that actually did. And its not what was said but the way that they said it.

Might knock a few of these up?

Who wants one?

Free publicity for the paper though, isn't it.  In fact, the very fact that we're all discussing the paper is going to raise its profile.  Can't win, really.

Agreed - do you think Liverpool would be sponsored by The Sun ??  Never going to happen.

At the end of the day if it wasn't The People newspaper it would have been another national rag that would have reported the financial irregularities at the club.  The fact of the matter was that it was the league that shafted us not the newspaper despite the likes of Chelsea & Tottenham doing worse than what we did and getting a derisory fine.

Does it bother me? Apart from being white No.

At the end of the day whether we are in Red, White, Blue, black, green etc it won't stop me supporting my club on the day.  There's always something special about the FA Cup and just because the players will be wearing a white shirt with The People on it, it won't stop me supporting them on the day.

We are supporters we support our team not a shirt

For perfectly understandable reasons, that's a far more emotive subject and I don't think too many parallels should be drawn.

That said, The People was not an unbiased conduit presenting the facts without comment. It took the information it was presented, either maliciously or as part of a misguided agenda depending on what you believe, and attacked the club with it, all the while ignoring the journalistic imperative to seek out the bigger story. For that reason, it really is very unfortunate that the club has found itself in a position where it is forced into wearing that rag's name on our shirts. The need to keep Samsung on side may well mean they had no choice, but it is still horrible.

I tried to point you in the right direction earlier in the thread - complete and utter indifference is the way to go.

Would be good if someone could get a banner on display in the Town End... Never Forget: Never Buy The People, or something like that...

Thank-you, that's exactly how I feel.

oh dear, hardly the same is it.

Anyone that prints t-shirts or holds up banners or does anything to damage relationships with current or potential sponsors needs to have a serious word with themselves. We have a board that are pulling out all the stops to get OUR club promoted and to raise the profile of the team. This season the board have shown true commitment to the cause by bringing in PDC and the 100 or so players that we have in our squad to make this happen.  This costs money and it needs to come from somewhere. I was also there at Wembley against Sunderland, I went on the march around the town and even bought the "up where we belong" song. I was devastated when our heroic efforts by Ozzie and his boys were taken away. But, it was 20 years ago. Surely we can all move on after such a length of time. The only mistake that Wray and the board have not learned from is the issue with White shirt. After the Wembley fiasco, he should know better

Theres a world of difference between making up vile lies (which the Sun did about Hillsborough) and reporting the truth (which is what the People did even if they did sensationalise it).

I remember the events of 1990 like it was yesterday but the people I blame primarily are the people who imposed the ridiculously over the top punishment. Plus the idiots who went to a tabloid paper with dirt on the club thinking it wouldnt spiral out of control.

If the clubs punishment had been proportional to the offence nobody would have anything to say about the People now. Blaming the paper is letting the real villains of the hook IMO.

As for the shirt, its tacky and makes the club look desperate for cash. Not playing in red at home is taking the whole "Wembley kit" thing another step forward and is wrong. They should have learned from the reaction of fans in 2010.

I'm all for a few chants of "We should be playing in red" or "We're supposed to be at home" but wouldn't take it so far as to protest against the sponsors. I understand people's feelings about The People and I'm not overly happy about them sponsoring us myself, but I don't think it warrants protests during the game.

It brings more money to club that may help us invest to get promoted from this god awful division.
Thats the only positive thing about it

If we want a protest, then try to get everyone who attends to wear Red.

The other obvious thing would be to not buy the shirt, which shouldn't be too hard to sell as it does look a bit shit

As opposed to having it in your username for example ?

Touché. My username does, obviously, refer to my belief that the game of football belongs to one particular sunday newspaper ;)

I havent even printed them yet!!

Even being 20 years on, I think if everyone actually saw or remembered the extent to which The People were determined to fuck us over with their stories they'd maybe have a different opinion. Does anyone have anything they could publish online?? They were coming out with exclusives every week and it seemed there was a definite agenda at the time to see us ruined, and they pretty much succeeded.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-wiltshire-15554583

On the BBC now.

I don't care (much) that it's The People. That's history. Yes, the injustice still hurts, but the club broke the rules.

It's the fact that after the Wembley kit debacle, again the club have split the fanbase by whoring us out to the highest bidder. It's something that you'd expect a Premier League team to do, not a fucking fourth division side. How many other non PL teams have an FA Cup kit? It's ridiculous and I don't like it.

Way to go Mr Watkins.

...and the kit looks mega shit.

[url width=304 height=171]http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/56426000/jpg/_56426162_arfa18_pdc.jpg[/url]

 Shit kit, but it's the world we live in, life's too short to be getting upset about something so trivial....I suppose we could have loads of conspiracy theories about The People and Maxwell wishing to divert attention from his own dodgy practices involving raiding pension schemes, in order to fund the Scum's couple of years of relative success....or his simultaneous interest in Derby County which ran counter to League rules.

Bottom line is with the demise of the NOTW, there's been a rise in People sales and they obviously want to raise awareness of the paper.....what better way than to be associated with the mighty reds.  :)

Totally agree Samdy - the concept of an FA Cup kit is total wank. What next a kit for the JPT and another for the League Cup or whatever the fucker is called now. Maybe another for friendly matches. Club have fucked up big time here. I'll still go to the game.
We play in red and if there's a clash we wear our away kit.

Watch this space Chalkies...we have a really good chance in this competition this year should we get past AFC Dons next week!

Swindon fans on the rampage due to sponsorship deal

[url width=800 height=335]http://www.zgeek.com/forum/gallery/files/1/0/8/simpsons_angry_mob.png[/url]

There seems to be very few fans that aren't pissed off by at least one of the issues because it really is two different seperate issues and i'm equally pissed off about both to be honest.

It seems the club were most likely unaware of the history with 'The People' despite what they say. The one valid point Nick Watkins does make is that it is (likely, I couldn't say for sure) a completely different paper today (different journalists, chairman, chief exec, pretty much everyone involved) however it still leaves a massive bitter taste in my mouth that their logo is plastered on the front.

The comparrison with Liverpool being sponsored by The Sun is quite rediculous when you consider 96 lives lost, but it's not completely irrelevant....I think the point that is trying to be made is that a club like Liverpool would be more sensitive to who they allow in as sponsors when the fans have a rocky relationship at best with that national rag.

I really do think the club need a fan on board to stop this sort of thing from happening, or at least be in regular contact with someone who has the ear of the fans for things like this. It could really stop a lot of own-goals they seem to be making. I do feel sorry for them in some ways, as it obviously wasn't intentional....what was intentional though and they obviously would have been aware of (after Wembley) is the whole playing in away colours when red is available. This consortium saved the club and im eternally greatful, but that doesn't excuse fucking about with the clubs identity.

I'm not so against us wearing away kits away from home when red is available, along as it makes sense. If we wear our black kit with red trim away to Plymouth or Macclesfield, it's not something that pisses me off that much as it does others if it gets us a bit more cash. Wearing any other colour than red at home though (or not wearing red when it's available at Wembley) is not acceptable!

There's a lot to be said for the casual fan, they fuck us off to the back teeth sometimes but when they do come out on days like wembley or cup games and we wear other colours when it's not needed, it's embarassing.

Maybe that apologist cunt from the Supports Club - Bennett? I think Fred would nominate Spencer.

Bennett turns up in the Beeb article on this. He's telling fans to toe the line for a change.

i am not linked to this nigel bennett feller, other than we share a surname, and we sort of support stfc, and we have tiny willies

So every Pakistani wont buy the News of the World because they exposed the players cheating?....if we had done nothing wrong then of course things would be different but lets face it as much as The People went to war on us the people at the club fucked us over even more really didn't they.

Shit kit...yes....not in red isn't great.......but apart from that who cares.

Who's to say that when the shit hit the fan all those years ago it wasn't a blessing in disguise....another few years of cheating the taxman and dodgy deals could have got us thrown out of the league and maybe no way back......like the board in them days who didn't give a shit about us nor do the board today.....get used to it and rock the boat at your peril because if you want to rock the boat over this they might just rock there boat out of town.

Considering Chelsea and Spurs got found out and got a comparitive 'smack on the wrists', I think we would've got fined/points deduction also, as proved by the punishmets clubs like Chesterfield and Boston got.

Swindon Town will play in RED People-sponsored shirts v Huddersfield Town. Full details on the official website later this evening.

This is why I like this board: When they recognise they make a mistake, they change it.

I really don't understand people almost saying we deserved our punishment. Our punishment was akin to Juventus' for three years worth of match fixing (I appreciate not the same people dishing out the punishment) whereas the likes of Spurs who commited similar crimes get away with nothing.

Either shows that these people really don't understand what happened or are simply massive soft cunts.

Where did you see this?

I agree......BUT THE PEOPLE DIDNT DISH OUT THE PUNISHMENT DID THEY!

The FA fucked us over but people didn't stop going to FA cup matches....or boycoting FA products did they...yes the People were a bunch of twats and i stopped buying it at the time but for me all that is over now ......lets get behind the club even if maybe they have made a boo boo with this.

Hopefully the fans reaction will be enough for them to learn from this episode.

Well done the board!!! Now lets concentrate on the game and getting in to round 2.

facebook innit

Gary Rose just tweeted it.

safe

Spot on. The FA and Ken Bates deserve the grudge, not The People. It's still a shit logo though.

End of story in my book.....they looked and listened,fair play to them.

this shouldn't have made me laugh, but it did

Red Shirt @ Home...where it belongs #STFC

The colour of the kit was always my main gripe, so Im happy, and will be going.  

On the board listening to the fans, I would say that isnt exactly true. They didnt listen after the Wembley decision because no fan would ever miss that game. But there are plenty who can do without 1st round FAC games, so theyve listened to the money.

Hopefully this is the end of changing from club colours at the first available opportunity.

Still got the wanky sponsor, but I accept that the clubs hands are tied on that.

Yay, all is forgiven. Group hug.

[url width=450 height=289]http://feelthebyrnes.files.wordpress.com/2011/04/group-hug.jpg[/url]

I'm glad the fans have stuck it to Watkins today over this latest White shirt bollocks.

His pompous fucking press comments beggar belief tbh. How the fuck can some ponce-in-a-suit start lecturing us about 'letting things go' that happened 20 years ago?

Where the fuck was he when the pain kicked in across the town of Swindon, shortly after the Wembley final win?

Fair play to him for backing down eventually, but he's got to be one epic fucking gormless fuckwit to even think about putting us out in white shirts after the Wembley fiasco against Millwall.

A point of history. It was the Football League that relegated us two divisions and the FA reduced it to one division on appeal. I don't recall that Ken Bates sat on the hearing but Doug Ellis did. The People ran the story on us for several weeks and what started as the bet story moved onto the payments outside of their contracts which attracted the FL and also the Inland Revenue.

It was a horrible period in our history that should never be forgotten as the impact was that we chased the dream for most of the 1990's which effectively bankrupted the club. Had we been promoted in 1990 with that Ossie Ardiles team with players such as Digby, Kerslake, Bodin, McLaren, Shearer and McLoughlin at their peaks. By 1993 those players were either sold or those remaining perhaps just getting a bit too old to compete at the top level.

Fair enough, I just project all negative feelings I have onto Bates as he has a particularly dislikeable face. And manner.

Nick Watkins comes across as a top bloke, the club may of got this kit change thing wrong but I'm sure it isn't all down to him. Without " fuckwits " like him the club would really start going downhill fast.

Agreed. This whole thing has made me realise what a good board we have. It's so hard to be mad at this board sometimes because they have been so good in the past, the one outstanding thing that has pissed people off is the changing of the clubs colours which they appear to have now got the message with.

The thing with 'The People' I honestly don't think they were aware and they're hands are now tied.

I reckon this was all a PR master plan from the board.

Announce the white shirt. Wait for it to kick off. Then back track to show they listen to the fans.

Extra PR for the board, the club and The People. And you've all fallen for it.

Don't be so fucking daft Jonny.

And while we're at it, how about a return to the white shorts as well.

Sometimes, very rarely, you talk a lot of sense. This is not one of those times. Big Brother is not watching you, he literally doesn't give a shit.

Surely Johnny was either

a) Making a tongue in cheek comment

or

b)  Coming down

I prefer red shorts a lot more i've got to be honest. I don't really think that either is 'triditional' as we've spent a pretty long time wearing both. Maybe we should be like Barcalona and alternate seasons (they do with red and blue shorts)

It was a).

Though Coca Cola were accused of doing this some years ago when they came out with their 'new cola'. I've also read of suspicions about Apple using similar methods to generate free publicity for their products (such as announcing product names that were already trademarked by other companies - iPhone and iTV for example).

Don't think our board are that clever nor that devious though (which is what Coca Cola said about the accusations).

Bollocks!  Just printed off a hundred T Shirts!!

Fucking U turners!

Reading the BBC article, we will be...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-wiltshire-15570363

 It's a coincidence that as we prepare to play at Vale Park, the match that The People reported as being fixed by Jimmy Gauld in 1960, was our 6-1 defeat in Burslem.  Harry Oscroft scored 4 that day....only Frank Clarke for Carlisle has matched that since.

 Gauld had heard of a conspiracy to fix a Mansfield/Tranmere fixture so that Tranmre could stay up in Div 3, so bet on a Mansfield Swindon to lose double.

 In this case as the web of deceit unfolded, it was the individuals and not the club who received the punishments.

 Yep we've got some history with The People.

Wasn't that a hit song by the Fine Young Cannibals?

I'm hoping the trip to vale park will prove much more fruitful than that day Reg!  :D

I'd say white shorts definitely was the traditional colour. It was only recently that red shorst was introduced.

http://www.historicalkits.co.uk/Swindon_Town/Swindon_Town.htm

I'd say any kit preference depends on when you started watching. Personally, I started in 1979 and red shirt, white shorts and red socks will always be the real Swindon Town kit.

I seem to remember that we moved to red shorts because the white ones we used ti have were going see-through after they were washed a couple of times.

Clearly we've spent more time in White shorts than we have red, but we've also even flirted with black shorts and/or socks at several stages and I really don't see at all at Swindon. I think either is perfectly acceptable but I may be slightly biased as being only 23, a good 15 of those years supporting Town have been in Red shorts.

On a completely different topic, when searching Swindon kits on google images, this mock up away kit comes up which I think is absolutely spot on (would also make sense being the colours of Wiltshire without making is look like Celtic)

[url width=414 height=414]http://www.fm-base.co.uk/forum/attachments/kits/191662d1313335915-hermanchides-kit-request-thread-swindon_2.png[/url]

1. We shouldn't be sponsored by The P****e.  Ever.  It's not 'water under the bridge' It never will be. Ever.
2. Our traditional kit is Red shirts, white shorts, red socks.
3. Swindon isn't in Wiltshire anymore. 

Swindon not in Wiltshire ?

 Swindon Borough Council, is a unitary authority independent of Wiltshire Council since 1997

Bit Partridge esque really

I will get some t shirts printed up!

I always regard a trip to Vale Park as something of a litmus test for our prospects....take 86/87 for example we went on a wet and windy Wednesday, came away with a 4-3 win, first win there in years and duly got promoted.

If we cn get anything there, then it will be a very good sign of things to come....defeat, may indicate a lowering of expectations for the season.

The first game I went to was against Port Vale and we lost.

I just hope that Caddis, Ritchie, Ferry and the gang know this little fact. I'm sure they do.

Vale were the opposition for my eldest lads first league game. We won 6-0.

Another repeat please.

I waited 25 years to see that win at The Wembley of the North....our recent record isn't so bad, but we did contrive to lose on the last visit to a terrible Vale side who got relegated, and we put 6 past at the CG.

Last time I went was a 1 - 0 win when George Ndah scored a great goal which used to be regularly included in Sky's best goals in the snow compilation. Fuck me it was cold that day.

Not only is it the Wembley of the North its the 2nd highest football league ground in the country after West Brom. Much thinner air at that altitude (160m asl), will show the fitness levels :D

It's a little more nuanced than that, as I referred to in a recent rant.  Distinction between political and traditional counties necessary.

How Wiltshire are you? (http://thetownend.com/index.php/topic,45484.msg1006993.html#msg1006993)


I do know what you mean.  I still think that the early 1990s kit that was essentially red with a small amount of white & green trim (no doubt introduced to match the colours of the diamond crest that was introduced at the same time) looked really good.  It was quite distinctive as well...still predominatly red, but the small amount of green in there made it distinctly & uniquely 'us'.

Funnily enough, that kit's introduction was also the one of the last times (other than Wembley 2010) when there was a shitstorm in the press about a new kit.  (Note to Nick Watkins: pls don't take it too personally.  Things like this were happening long before your tenure.)  It must have been summer 1991 or 1992 and the Adver leaked the story that the new home strip was going to be red, white & green without (I think...long time ago now) showing a mock up of what it would actually look like.  The letters pages went mental for days.  And then the kit came out, people saw it looked quite decent and it all went quiet again.  Also helps that we had our finest hour in that kit.

I don't have many good memories of Port Vale, been to Vale Park 6 times and only seen us win there once in 86 when we won 4-3 with goals from Kamara, White, Jones and Gilligan, saw us draw twice as well though.

My only real underlying memory is of Calderwoods super long ranger at home to the Vale over Mark grews head.

For those young uns that havent seen it...here...revel in its glory!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=s2yTfnqWe7k

The inaugural league game for the new DRS (then the Intel Stand) was vs Port Vale.  A 2-0 win, I think.

Every memory I have of Port Vale involves being fucking frozen.

Our finest hours at Wembley were;

In white (don't start)
Red shirts, white  shorts, red socks (Spall GWR FM)
All red, with swirly pink flames (Loki Burmah) became the PL kit, not to be confused with our fine season of 1992/93 which was Diamond Leisure and had more green trim

Did you see the goal?

Just about from me. At 80 minutes you couldnt see the halfway line.

Isn't Boundary Park - Oldham the highest in the country?

Boundary park is the third highest 5 metres below Vale park.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Highest_English_football_stadiums_by_altitude

  I used to think Saltergate seemed like quite a high ground....Derbyshire being quite hilly in parts and then you had to go a up a hill to get there....it is on of those little surprises that the highest is the Hawthorns.

It's the bloody coldest.

I remember freezing my tits off watching Hamdi Razak make his debut and nearly score a wonder goal.

you'll find Chesterfield's new ground a disappointment then, the Tesco next to it is twice as big

Most new grounds are a bit of a disappointment, although not been to them all, a couple which might be an improvement are St Mary's and the MadStad....Shrewsbury's new ground being a typical examplenot a patch on the Gay Meadow.

It is indeed and generally for climate and surroundings I would counter also the bleakest.

Surprised about the Hawthornes, would never have guessed that the highest one would be in a city, incidentally the first ground I ever saw a game at when I was 4, WBA v Wolves (lad down the street was a Wolves fan and his gran took me along) - no recollection at all, second was a few weeks later Wolves v. Chelsea and remeber vividly as his gran led us from the ground straight into a running battle between fans - sticks in the mind.