Thetownend.com

First one is on ITV at 8 30 tonight. I suspect that they'll all be too highly rehearsed and scared to make mistakes for it to actually be very good, but I'm going to be watching along with a bunch of people doing the following drinking game, which I'd highly reccomend:

http://armyofdave.com/2010/04/14/the-election-debate-drinking-game/

Anyone have any thoughts? Anyone expecting Brown to be anything more than hideously dull, Cameron any more than ticking the sounbite boxes and Clegg to be taken seriously?

It'll probably be shite. Most likely be one having a pop at the other's policies instead of actually telling us about their own.

I shall probably be mass debating with myself when thats on.

Hmmmmmm all very American isn't it? I might watch it but it's on for 90 mins not sure politics can keep my attention for that long  

I heard on Talksport that it's all scripted and rehearsed anyway. May still watch it though.

It's only going to be any fun if Brown loses it and twats Cameron one live on air.

Will they swap shirts at the end i wonder.

hahaha which Talksport political expert said that then?

Of course its rehearsed.

Im looking forward to it  :-[

Surely "scripted and rehearsed" by TalkSport standards just means "coherent sentences used" ?

If 5live are covering it why aren't Sky Sports News? That would be unbelievable Jeff.

Interesting that the BBC website has live coverage of the volcanic ash cloud (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/8622438.stm) but not the live political debate.

This is not what I pay my license fee for.

Beg your pardon, I have found it now

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/election2010/liveevent/

:soapy tit wank:

sooo dull, who'd have thought

If any of those 3 do a subtle yet audible fart they'll get my vote.

I'm voting Independent. None of those cunts are getting my vote. I strongly urge everyone else to do the same.

I'm now mildly tipsy and having to spellcheck carefully thanks to picking the wrong horse in our drinking game..turns out Gordon Brown used a stupidly large amount of stats. What a git!

I'm not going to waste my time voting this year, If i had to vote though i'd probably vote for UKIP.

The 3 main parties are all the same, They will never change, Just a shame that one of them will be in power, Maybe one day someone else will get in, If i had to vote for one of the 3 main parties though it would be Lib Dems.

FT says nick clegg did well

yaaay. bloody hypocritical lib dems

I'm coming round to the way of thinking that a hung parliament might be the best thing to happen to British politics for some time.  With the disengagement the electorate is feeling towards the political class at the moment; the anger to do with MP's expenses, the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, the failure to push through banking reform following the greatest convulsion to the system since the 1920s...it would be a shame if we all plodded along as before, swinging alternately between Labour and Conservative.

We need to mix things up a bit, turn the system on its head and take a few politicians outside their comfort zones.  Coalition government has its drawbacks, but I don't think it would be as arrogant/aloof as the government we have now.  My prediction...a Labour/Liberal coalition government with Brown as PM, Cable as Chancellor and Miliband/Clegg also in the top tier of cabinet.  Not everyone's cup of tea, I'm sure...but an eventuality that would give the Tories the shake up they need.  (Cameron needs to grow a backbone and Osborne needs to go.  If they weren't such pale imitations of their predecessors, they would be walking this election by now.)

Any government that doesn't include Brown & his gang of thieves & liars would be better than what we have had to put up with. Unfortunately a vote for the Liberals in this region is usually a vote for labour in this region (outside of Swindon any way)

The problem with the 'anyone but [insert name of incumbent party/PM]' school of thought is that it produces precisely the pendulum effect I was talking about earlier.  Thirteen years ago, the mantra was 'anyone but the Tories'.  Now it's 'anyone but Brown/NuLabour'.  All we will ever do is swing between two parties with entrenched allegiances, while anyone else outside this cozy duopoly with fresh ideas gets marginalised.  If you want to get people to start caring about politics again, politics needs to offer more than a straight choice between red and blue.

The debates were quite boring, but they had more substance than anyone expected, and actually there wasn't a lot of slagging off going on, which was a relief.

They key difference I think they are going to make is giving the Lib Dems an equal platform with Labour and Conservative.  Nick Clegg played a clever game very effectively, of showing that the usual ding-dong between the two bigger parties was going on in the same old way, but now the people could see a bright new force in politics, all shiny and fresh, and with realistic actual policies (which of course are unlikely to be tested very much as the LDs will not make that much of a breakthrough).  It was very well done.  Clegg came over as standinf apart from the other two, honest and down to earth (and I happen to know he is actually a very nice guy, but a bit lightweight, and he relies very much on the big hitters of Vince Cable and to a lesser extent Chris Huhne.

But this is exposure the Lib Dems have never had before, and in the one opinion Poll i saw last night of voting intentions following the debate, their percentage share had gone up from 20% to 26%.  If he sustains that level, and maybe secures another 2% or so, we could see large numbers of Lib Dem MPs elected and a hung parliament inevitable.  Last time that happened (Feb 74)  parliament only lasted for six months, but those were different days, with Harold Wilson, Edward Heath (following a disastrous Tory term of office) and Jeremy Thorpe as party leaders - all of them 'prima donnas'.  There is likely to be much more pragmatism this time, not least because all parliamentarians know that the public will not put up with any more shenanigans!

Dont say that, PaulD doesnt like it!

It's an ironic piss-take of the most shallow, transparent marketing gimmick of the late 20th century.  And I know that Paul loves a bit of irony.  So he can stick it!  (Smiley thing, smiley thing.)

Eugh Gary Barlow is singing with children for some rubbish Cameron speech god it's makingme feel Ill!

You should have a play with the seat calculator on the BBC website. Even if the Lib Dems get 30% of the vote they will still most likely end up with fuck all seats (just under 100) due to the way votes are spread out. Bizarrely, if the vote was split evenly with 30% for each of the main parties and 10% for the rest you'd have Labour with 300 seats, Conservative 200 and Lib Dems 100.

...all of which goes to how f##ked up the first past the post voting system really is.

That's democracy. Apparently.

It's not though, it's tired and not as clever as it thinks it is. So actually quite appropriate to the subject, now that I think about it :)

My perspective:

Thatcher in the 80's decided that manufacturing industry wasn't important, so she got rid of much of it.  Britain can boldly move ahead with an economy based on the service sector. 

In 2008 -2010, the world economy led by the service sector goes totally in the shitter, Britain's debt is 68% of GDP.  The individuals that caused the mess either side of the Atlantic get rewarded with bonus's.

Britain doesn't have the industrial or technological infrastructure to sufficient create dosh.  Whomever comes out and says the last 30 years have been a long term economic fuck up, puts aside ideology and states that the entire system of government in Britain needs a total overhaul might be worthy of a vote.

has everyone received their poll cards etc yet?

I have.

Nope. Royal Mail Swindon are in the shit again though, so everything's delayed :)

Funny how the councill tax bill is always on time though.

Reducing our reliance upon and moving away from industrial and manufacturing sectors hasn't been a bad thing. Both have pretty much turned to shit due to the increased availability of cheap labour, either from those sectors moving to less developed countries or through an influx of cheap labour. It is a disgrace that we haven't pushed and developed the high tech sector more though as that is something we could and should be excelling in a lot more than at present.

You can't really blame any of that on any one party though, the Tories started it, Labour finished it and the Lib Dems don't seem to give a toss.

I don't blame any one of the parties, collectively they have been incompetent.  Unfortunately, in politics the truth is the first victim, and next victims are those who have spoken the truth.  So why would talented individuals with integrity prosper in politics. 

A low turnout with a hung Parliament should give the message that none of the three major parties deserve a mandate.  There appears to be no  perception that a given party will act and reform.

phew!

I got mine and Royal Mail is fine!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oZDreHPzU94

Meh! I'm still going to vote Independent.

Eddie Izzard though.....43 marathons...fuck me. Was that just a big wind up? I don't think it was. If it wasn't, fucking fair play. I wouldn't have thought it was possible  :notworthy:

He is one stubborn fucker. Just sheer bloody minded, I'm not giving up stubbornness

got my card last wednesday and i'll be voting lib dem

are you gay?

i'm anything you want me to be sweetie  :gay:

Lucky you're talking to ,e and not Mark Oaten or other assorted sexual deviant Lb Dems.

Lib dems are wrong in the headspace. In the euro elections last year they were trying to get in by bragging about plans to cut tuition fee's. Now they're trying to move all students in bath to love on their relevant campus's, which is not only a complete contradiction to their methods last year, it also makes extremely little economical sense

I can see why they're seen as a tinpot choice

That's because Labour have changed the constituency boundaries to ensure that their safe seats in the north need less votes than the ones which the Tories hold in the south, and that is why the Tories need an estimated 8% lead over Labour to get a narrow majority, and despite being now 3rd in the polls, Labour would still get most seats.

As Ardiles said 'That's democracy', but I would say 'That's democracy...Labour style!!'

I am voting for Sir Marcus Browning m.p.  Unfortunately his speech is only available in audio.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IbAGDSi2qK4

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/boundary-changes-hand-advantage-to-the-tories-435081.html

Never let the facts get in the way of a Tory's prejudice...

that cunt cameron was in swindon today at the sun coate.shame i didn't know as i would love to heckle that wanker.only a 5 min walk from my house too

This is fuck all to do with boundary changes. There's nothing that Labour, or even the Boundary Commission, who ACTUALLY make the recommendations about boundary changes, could do to make Tory votes count the same as Labour votes under a first past the post system.

If all constituencies contained exactly the same number of voters, the Tories would still be at a disadvantage because of the tendency for middle class and upper class, Tory voting types to all gather together in huge numbers in certain areas, making some constituencies massively safe Tory seats.

If the cunts would spread themselves out a bit they might have a chance.

Fixed it for you.

Thanks for the implication that I'm incredibly well endowed, but I have to ask how you know? Has someone been talking or are you some kind of peeping tom?

Word on the street your Lumpiness.

I bet there was certain people in the town that was creaming their pants at the thought of getting close to Cameron

I heard that Cameron was addressing a crowd of senior citizens in the beer garden...a crowd that included his own parents who made the short trip from Oxfordshire.  I'll hazard a guess that it was probably the first (& last) time they've been to the Sun Inn.

it was a conservative arranged event for their own members

I'd imagine The Sun was picked because Cameron could be seen in media terms in Swindon, without actually having to soil his upper class arse with the presence of the lower orders, bby actually going anywhere in the urban zone...


 

Christ, sounds like this shindig was a lot more fruity than I'd previously imagined!

Who gives a shit?

Imagine Cameron going Canvassing in the Parks  - he may not come out alive

Calm down, Alan.

I drove past this and there was a massive conservative coach, so they probably bussed them all in to make it look like they had a huge following in Swindon.

And Brown's due in this afternoon, but wierdly it's all hush-hush.

http://www.swindonadvertiser.co.uk/news/8109075.Prime_Minister_Gordon_Brown_due_in_Swindon_today/

It's not really weird. I watched a programme last week that exploded the myth of political leaders meeting the general public. The majority of these 'meet and greets' are staged. only hand-picked members of the party's local support are invited, with the rest not even aware of it.

If it was advertised, Alan might decide to re-enact that scene in Dallas.....

The one where JR found out he wasn't the daddy?

No. The one when Pammy woke to find Bobby in the shower and realised it had all been a dream....

Why all the apathy for Cameron? Can't do any worse than that fat Scottish twat who is slowly ruining our Country. Remember, the current Prime Minister Gordon Brown was not even elected in the first place!

Cameron is an upper-class, slimy twat. His insincerity is patently obvious.

Vote conservative? You must be fucking joking!

a fucking men

Unlike the poor northern working class chaps born into poverty like Brown, Blair, the Millibands etc. Dont let their posh accents and oxbridge degrees fool you, these people are salt of the earth.

I'm not a lover of Labour and despite your obvious deduction that I'm too thick to know, I do realise that most politicians, of all parties, are from the privileged classes.

Not all of them come across quite as slimy and insincere as David (call me Dave) Cameron.

The problem with our system is that as soon as things go wrong we vote another bunch of grasping, self-serving, power hungry cunts in. How much difference is there between the two main parties?

(Don't go on manifestos. We all know they'll say anything to get in, then backtrack)

whatever.

Theres plenty of sticks to beat the tories with. Not being different enough from labour being the main one as you mention

Having a pop for being posh when their main competition is almost as bad in that respect is a bit dumb. If you want people to think you're not a bit thick you might want to stop posting things that sound a bit thick.  :)

I said he came across as an upper-class, slimy, insincere twat.

Please tell me which point you disagreed on.

I dont particually. My point was the whole political class is little different across the major parties therefore its pointless to single the tories or cameron out for it.

But I didn't, did I? I stated how he came across. Not many people would accuse Brown of coming across as upper-class, or particulary slimy.

Insincere and twat obviously. He's a politician after all.

The 'real' PM Mandelson does that for Labour. A complete utter devious slimeball of the highest order, having been kicked out of Goverment twice, only to come back as a Lord.

I'd be quite keen on Alan NOT re-enacting any scenes that involve him being in the shower, if it's all the same to you

He was, by his constituency, as was Blair.  The country does not and has never voted directly for the Prime Minister.

Thats a hard argument to make Donkey.....

We was elected to a constituency sure - but he was not voted by the people for PM...

Blair was voted for by people in the knowledge that he was the party leader and therefore would become PM...

Brown was shoe horned in because Blair wanted to fuck off and milk the appearance money for all it was worth...

I voted Labour at the last election, but I voted mainly for Blair because I (like a lot of others) got sucked in by him...

I can absolutely 100% say I would never have voted Labour had Brown been in charge....

So for me your argument just doesn't stand up....

I take your point, and to many who vote you are right.  However, in a parliamentary democracy, you don't vote for the leader of the country, only your MP.  Not so much an argument, but a statement of fact.

Given all that, if the fact that Cameron is slimey cunt stops people voting tory, then I'm happy.  :)

He's not arguing just stating fact....you vote for the party, by electing a candidate in your constituency....it's for the party to decide their leader. Usually that person will last the length of a parliament but there are plenty of examples of it not working that way.

I do understand Reg - I am saying that not many people see it like that.

In '97 I voted for Blair - not really the Labour party.

I am now older and wiser and understand politics a lot more.  However not many in the country seem to...

Just take how the Lib Dems have risen in the opinion polls - this is not to do with their policy on immigration, taxation or anything else, it is purely because the public embraced his performance...

Sad really....

If we start voting for people and not partys we become america.

And no-body wants that

For me, one of the more interesting aspects of this election is the prospect of electoral reform.  As jonny72 mentioned a while back, the first past the post (FPTP) system means that were the Tories, Labour and Liberal Democrats to all attract 30% of the popular vote, they would end up with approx 200, 300 and 100 seats respectively...and that's wrong.

If we get a hung parliament, the Liberals will be able to push for electoral reform that would, hopefully, do away with the FPTP system all together.  A proportional representation (PR) system would mean that electors votes would be able to vote for the PM of their choice.  At the moment, the system is too convoluted and opaque - and a big turn off for voters in 'safe' seats such as the one I live in where their votes are effectively worthless.

I agree now - but I knew no better in '97


The sad fact is that most of the population vote for people rather than parties....

You didn't say that the last time you soaped my bottie crack young man.

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/election2010/2939433/Lib-Dem-leader-Nick-Cleggs-on-the-defensive.html

Now i know its the Sun...but its all fact....makes Arthur Daly look like Mother Teresa....not for me thanks.

Can I make it clear from the start that I think they're all a bunch of cunts, but that being said how anyone who gets up and goes to work everyday to earn a living can even consider voting Tory is fucking beyond me.

Parlimentary politics may be the full of middle class fuckers but Cameron is just taking the piss. In his entire front bench I think there are 3 that aren't public school educated. 15 of them went to Eton with Dave.

And don't give me any of "it's not your background its your policies" bollocks that all the media and the politico's are giving it.

I'm sure if all but 3 of the cabinet had been Scottish under Labour, (or black, or gay, or some other minority that makes up a tiny fucking percentage of the population) I'm sure The Sun and some of you would have a few things to say about it.

Seriously if you think you've got anything in common with these people, or that they give a flying fuck about you or your life or anything but themselves, you're deluded.

Lumps...its the reason why i cannot bring myself to vote....Labour has let the working man down big time in my view for lots of various reasons....will not vote Lib/Dem as i dont like the stance they take on Europe or our defence.
That only realisticly leaves the tories who i never voted for....so if i do vote(and i should ) it will probably be Tory..

Even assuming it is all fact (which is a pretty massive assumption), all of it (and worse) could be said about the other two party leaders and most of their front bench. In fact if that's the worst the smear merchants could come up with on Clegg, he's probably one of the cleanest politicians in Westminster

That's the main thing that puts me off The Lib Dems as well Leefer. I actually quite like Clegg. He said some good things in the first debate and I was impressed. But I don't want a United Europe. The thought of it is just painful. I'm not voting Labour after the last 13 years of utter crap. That leaves me with Cameron or UKIP. Great...

Greens?

I have to ask - so fucking what if they were public schooled ??

Makes absolutely no difference......

That is just a smoke screen played out by the Labour Party whose front bench is probably just as public schooled but choose to ignore that fact !

Did you read my post? Would you be happy if the entire cabinet were that unrepresentative of the population in any other way?

All gay but a couple of token straights? All Mulslim except two Christians? 98% black?

Fuck me the Daily Mail had a field day when 4 or 5 of the Labour cabinet were Scottish, but no-ones allowed to mention class anymore are they?

Fuck those cunts. This is much better.

http://www.loonyparty.com/index.php?page=manifestoproposals-1

Now known as the BNP.

Was reading the student paper over lunch and they had all main parties key pledges combined onto one page. Extremely underwhelming


On another note, I handed my voting registering form into the thingy office last thursday and still aint got my card back. Is this normal?

isn't that the green party?

Its only Tuesday! Ours took at least a few days.

I cant bring myself to vote for the Greens, anyone that is going to put up alcohol by 50% is bad in my books.

And they want you to travel on public transport. Bloody tree hugging hippies.

Free ganja though

I'm torn at the moment.

There's no way I'd consider voting Labour because I don't trust them, equally so the Tories who want to hit me in the pocket by scrapping tax credits.

If I'm voting for policies, which should generally be the way an election system should be, I'd be voting UKIP. I were to vote for the biggest possibility of change, I'd go Lib Dem with the chance of a hung parliament.

WHAT? Fuck that for a game of soldiers

It's all completely irrelevant, just a circus.

The power is now in Brussels and the commissioners are unelected.

The HoP will be closed down before the next UK General Election as surplus to requirements. Enjoy the theatre while you can.

Im voting for Lumps,ive got a man crush on him.

Yawn! Bet you 20 quid the Houses of Parliament is still functioning (insofar as it ever does) by the time of the next UK General Election you tinfoil-hatted loon

hahaha

While accepting your general point about the gradual transfer of power from Westminster to Brussels, I think the chances of this happening are approximately nil.

Well the 'gradual' bit is so far down the road it is nearly complete. What's the point of the HoP when all it does is to rubber stamp (or worse still - gold plate) EU directives and regulations, usually through all encompassing statutory instruments? There are hardly any debates about legislation in the Commons any more. That's why MPs spend so much time claiming and spending their expenses, as there is fuck all else for them left to do...

I think you're grossly underestimating the economic value of the Houses of Parliament to the nation. Where would our moat industry be without them? Eh? Eh?

HP sauce is ace, Brussels sauce doesn't sound nearly as good.

ha ha ha. Fair play to the bloke on the news having a go at Milliband. The look on Milliband's face was priceless - should be a picture of it in the dictionary under "aghast"

Lumps - honestly couldn't give a flying fuck if they were green, black, yellow, brown, gay, lesbian, straight, comprehensive schooled, private schooled or aliens !

The point is what they will do for the country and what they will do for me and my family .....

I don't trust Brown and Labour - labour have had 13 years - spent a lot of the time fucking things up, and now have the cheek to say "elect us and let us show you what we will do" - well fuck me if that's the case what have they been doing for 13 years ?!?!?!

I don't want the tree hugging Lib Dems in charge.....

I would rather see the Tories - I like some of their ideals - It's easy to say "remember when they were last in charge" - but what most Labour supporters quickly forget is the winter of 78 when they were in charge - all the strikes, hospitals not operating properly, bodies stored in warehouses, the unions largely taking control of the country !

Not for me thanks......

I think for most people picking who to vote for is a issue of "who do I disagree with least?" rather than "who do I agree with most?"

The party I most agree with is by far the lib dems. They have some very sensible policies and good ideas, so I will be voting for them. It's good that more of the public are finally seeing sense and I hope their support continues to rise. The worst manifesto I've read (other than the British Nazi Party) is UKIP's. Their figures are laughable and they have some moronic, unjustified policies like opposing wind farms and increasing the military budget by 40%, which would be a huge waste of money.

You've clearly yet to encounter the English Democrats.

What with them, UKIP and the BNP the Daily Mail readers are spoilt for choice this year

The ED candidate in Bath is quite fit for a nutter.

Picture please.

Google images just gives pictures of football hooligans. Maybe that floats nemo's boat?  ;)

Yes, and a web search on Google says that the English Democrat party candidate for bath is someone called Robert Craig.

Is Nemo a poof?

Ah, my mistake, turns out she stood for the European Elections last year, I don't think the ED are standing at all, which is probably wise. Robert Craig is the candidate for "All the South" which seems to have one policy which is to cancel something that's already hapenned. Good work guys. On the bright side, we do have Alan standing as far as I can tell:


To give you an idea of how far you have to go to be the most eccentric, the Monster Raving Loonies are standing.

Brilliant! Half rogue parliamentary candidate, half Chechen kidnapper. More like him. Can't be Alan, though, no tinfoil hat :)

Thats all well and good, but where are the pics of the good looking face of muslim hating nationalists?

Actually quite looking forward to the debate part 2 tonight. Fully expect Brown and Cameron to go on the attack against Clegg to batter his recent support. Agree with alot of the posts above but we cant go on hiding from the facts. This great country of ours is being ruined by the people that run it. Labour have had 13 years to put things right and the continual blame of the previous Tory government is getting boring now. Look at it in football club terms, if every season your team performed worse than the season before and finished lower down the table it would not take long for the public to want a change. I want a change! I voted for Blair/Labour at the last election because they were, in my opinion, the best option at the time. As it stands, without being influenced by polls etc i believe a Cameron led goverment would freshen things up and give us a renewed hope, same as when Blair was first elected. I'm not saying the Tories are any better but they sure cant be worse than the current set up which is quite frankly shambolic. So what if Cameron was better educated than the rest of us, thats not his fault, if i was able to send my offspring to Eton i would! To continue voting for Labour after moaning about the state of the country would be hypicrital. Can you really imagine what this country would be like under 4 more years of Brown? God forbid.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/election/article-1267921/GENERAL-ELECTION-2010-Nick-Clegg-Nazi-slur-Britain.html

Unbelievable.

The original article: http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2002/nov/19/eu.germany

Taxi for Cleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeg!

eh?

I'm quite sure the Mail yesterday tried to say that he wouldn't put Britain first on the grounds that he speaks other languages. Oh really, there's plenty to criticize the Lib Dems on without just making stuff up.

totally agree with his article in the guardian, anyone that reads the mail and believes it is not going to vote anything but ukip tory or bnp anyway.

fixed it for you

Brilliantly, the comments section of that (Mail) article is now people telling the author that they should get a new job. This may be the first time I've ventured into the Comments section of the Mail without feeling like topping myself afterwards.

Anyway, back on track, where's this ED hottie you promised us? Is she in uniform?

Pfft, find them yourself. Although Googling her isn't going to get your far, although her Facebook profile does come up.

Booo! Nemo is a tease. I reckon she's probably a bit rough or it turned out she was a he in drag and he's just embarassed

I found a picture earleir. She looked like a hound. I'll try and find it againj

http://www.thisissomerset.co.uk/guardian/news/European-elections/article-1026691-detail/article.html

Found their (rather low budget) campaign poster

http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/photos-ak-snc1/v2669/201/110/701428982/n701428982_1572887_7853787.jpg (http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/photos-ak-snc1/v2669/201/110/701428982/n701428982_1572887_7853787.jpg)

She's the hottie on the left, obviously. Not that great, but a bit of a step up from Margaret Beckett.

I'm praying we don't get the chance to find out, because I really don't share your faith.

The one with the beard then?  :eek:

Yes Paul, that was my joke, thanks for doing it again for anyone a bit slow.

Erm, that would be me then. What an arse I am

Anyone watching this?  Looks like Dave's had a spray tan and pretty sure Gordon's glass eye keeps glinting in the lights.

Cameron is talking himself out of votes every time he opens his mouth.

He's not handling this very well at all.  Really surprised as thought he'd be far slicker given last week's criticism of his performance.

cleggertron is smashing it again

Indeed.

Listening to Cameron and Brown during these last two debate I must say that they haven't appealed to me at all.

I'll be interested to hear what the political experts say because I too would say that Clegg has emerged on top again.

http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/news-and-comment/lib-dems-call-for-return-to-safe-standing-on-terraces-1950535.html

This deserves a poll.

I didn't watch the first one, but Brown didn't come across as sincere at all. I thought Cameron talked a good game tonight and can see why dissenters would lean towards voting Tory.

Clegg won it for me, very much the voice of reason and at least tried to answer the questions that were actually asked.

Sky are very cheekily leading on the one poll that shows Cameron ahead and ignoring all the others with Clegg ahead completely. Murdoch really is a gigantic arse.

I wonder if the sun will be continuing their front page anti-clegg campaign today. Maybe that should be a how not an if.

I thought Cameron just about edged Clegg into second - but I guess it really depends where your affiliation sits as well....

Although 1 thing these debates have shown me is that I am not convinced by any of the 3......

I still think the Monster Laving Loonies should be invited on stage - if nothing else it would make for bloody funny TV !!

As a letter in the Tele(Tory)graph puts today

"Who are people going to vote for when they get into the polling booth and can't find Clegg's name on the ballot paper ?"

Some may be treating this as another reality show.

You seen this?

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/sun-censored-poll-that-showed-support-for-lib-dems-1951940.html

What you mean The Sun isn't entirely impartial and accurate in it's reporting of the news? Well fuck me!

The Independent and the Murdoch press don't like each other, do they.

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/77746de4-4e6f-11df-b48d-00144feab49a.html?nclick_check=1

It's getting ugly.

The same as the Independent then. They state in the headline that The Sun "censored" the poll when in the article it states that they simply didn't publish it - there is big difference between the two. No newspaper is able to publish and comment on every single poll published and its ridiculous to say they should. They even comment in the article that a few days earlier The Sun ran a front page story saying the Lib Dem's had taken the lead in a previous poll.

Maybe, I'd still be prepared to bet that someone who relied solely on the Independent for news for a year would come out slightly better informed than someone who did the same with the Sun. Just a guess, like

And I'd be prepared to bet that both papers make up lies.

The Independent may (or may not) be totally independent of outside influences, but that isn't the same thing as being neutral - they still have journalists and editors that are likely to show bias to certain points of views and arguments.

According to Wikipedia, The Independent leans towards left wing views and a 2004 poll showed its readers were 39% Lib Dem, 36% Labour which suggests some bias against the Tories (or they wouldn't read it).

I'd say most of what all papers write is bollocks, or at least the truth twisted to the point it is bollocks. The trouble is people read "their" paper and allow that to aid their opinions.

People always say how one is more honest than the other, bollocks. No newspaper cares about accuracy, they care about sales, they're a business not a provider of free impartial public information. And as jonny says, the truth is that even if the paper supposedly doesn't have an axe to grind, reporters do.

Besides, regardless of headlines or facts, people only chose to believe what reinforces their own opinions anyway.

FFS, I only made a sarcy comment about the Sun being a pile of arse and next thing we're into the fucking Pulitzer committee.

There's clearly a qualitative difference between arsewipes like the Sun/Star/Mirror and the likes of the Telegraph/Guardian/Independent. And anyone trying to claim "Oooh, they're all as bad as each other so it's absolutely fine to take the Sun as seriously as the proper grown-up papers" just can't read. Or think. Probably neither.

That may be so, but everyone knows to take the tabloids with a pince of salt. You know what you're getting, the lies in the others that you mention are far more subtle and long lasting.

Really? There was someone on here the other day backing up some piece of nonsense or other by quoting a story in the Sun and saying something along the lines of "I know it's in the Sun but its true"

Maybe all the papers should use the line :

25% truthful....80% spin

Ok, anyone with half a brain then :D

Rules me out, then :)

the debates have been far better than i'd anticipated and thoroughly interesting.

clegg had nothing to lose going into last week's debate but continued impressively last night, although some of the lib dem policies on immigration really do not stand up to any scrutiny whatsoever. brown waffled on without saying much, somehow managing to sound disturbingly right wing when talking about immigration.

a lot of the body language anbd facial expressions of the leaders whilst not talking were quite interesting. cameron was particularly emotive, frequently rolling his eyes and sighing to himself - usually after brown had spoken.

All lefty papers.

Torygraph lefty?  Really?

Anything that doesn't agree with the anti government middle age break down possibly mentally ill written blogs that talk talk reads is a left wing conspiracy.

To be fair to TT, from the mentalist hinterland he inhabits even the Mail seems a little pinko

Yes, really.

It is a million miles away from the Conservative leaning paper it used to be.

Guardian = Independent = Telegraph

No, the Mail is definitely right wing your Lumpy Bumpy.

 ::)

You do realise that says a lot more about you than the Telegraph don't you? No, actually, you don't do you?

No 46 in our series "You know when you've completely lost any tether to a sense of perspective when ....."

Hahahah Gordons having a total mare.

Caught calling a (life long labour voting)pensioner a bigot when he thought he was off mic in a scene that must could have been scripted by Armando Iannucci.

Briliiant

anyone read the adver webchats with candidates?
some of the posts on there are mental

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/election_2010/8649012.stm

just read this. He's dropped a major bollock there, although I just think its seriously funny.

Why is no one even considering that the dotty old bat might actually have been a bigot? It has been known you know.

I'm pretty sure that happened on the Thick of It, only with slightly less ludicrous circumstances. Bit unwise.

Because it is much more certain that Gorgon Broon is definitely a complete and utter cunt.

The two are not mutually exclusive.

Point taken.

Gorgon Broon is definitely a complete and utter bigoted cunt.

who is gorgon broon?

Blue italian/scottish cheese.

I like cheese.

Isn't it a song by The Stranglers?

I for one would like to congratulate Talk Talk on brightening up my day with his hilariously nonsensical word trickery.

Thanks racey.

I see Broon, after his cock-up yesterday, says he's going to highlight the economy.Oh, the economy that is now £900bn in the red, and increasing.

And by the way, when Broon talks about 'halving the debt', he doesn't mean 'I'm going to halve the debt from £900bn to £450bn' like any sane person would but halve the ANNUAL debt, from £180bn to £90bn annually, meaning it continues going upwards.

The continued referral to him as Broon is as funny as Aljokefree.

Bookies are offering odds on the number of times Clegg and Spray Tan Dave mention "bigot" tonight.
I'm going for 12-15 times between the pair.   

Mention with reference to the incident or just drop the word into conversations about other things to watch Brown squirm? The latter might actually be amusing the first time it happens, although I suspect it'll be done to death.

I feel a bit sorry for Old Gordon!! I mean who hasn't done that classic thing where your in the toilets slagging someone off and they walk out of the cubicle once?  

To me it makes him seem more human?

"Lets not talk about yesterdays minor fuck up, lets talk about the massive fuck up that has been the last 13 years"

yep you're right.we all do it.
for him though it's just another nail in his coffin.
god i wish it was cameron who did it instead

More human, yes but do you want a two-faced PM?  And what was with that damn creepy smile when he was trying to worm his way out of it? 

Clearly they all do it but if anyone was going to be caught doing something this stupid it was bound to Brown.

you'll have an impossible job finding a pm who isn't two faced.good luck with it

Having seen the whole storm in a tea-cup on the news last night, I kind of thought the same thing  - once I'd listened to it properly, it seemed quite mild. I'd lay good odds there's very few politicians in this or any other country who actually wouldn't have been caught saying far worse stuff in the same circumstances "Fuck me I hate those peasants" or "Christ what a bunch of idiots, did you see how ugly that one's kids were" etc.

As arriba says, though, it'll still hurt him. If nothing else, makes him look accident prone.

Surprisingly little attention has been focused on Sky's behaviour in all this - it was their lapel mike he was still wearing and which was left on recording what was by then a private conversation. Wonder if they'd have broadcast it if they'd caught Cameron or the idiot Osborne out the same way?

My 2 pence worth on the "Bigot" gate affair

Why if Gordy though she was a bigot, can he not have his point of view and defend it, rather than pander to the PR machine and appologise to he for a off the cuff remark.  If he had of stood his ground and backed his comments so what, at least he's a man of his word.

and I agree with Colin Todd, lets not worry about yesterday, but how about the last 13 years of crap that he and old Tony have dealt us or should that be US

Absolutely agree but you do tend to hope, however unrealistically, that the leader of the party that you put the cross next to does have some basic common values... as you can tell I'm going to spoil my ballot paper :D

But he didn't stand his ground, he said he mis-heard her.  Er, no he didn't. 

If he had stood by it and defended his point then he may well have gained some support from it instead.  To be fair to him, he must meet a lot of nutjobs so comments like this are to be expected.

[quote author=pauld link=topic=38552.msg815818#msg815818 date=1272554137

Surprisingly little attention has been focused on Sky's behaviour in all this - it was their lapel mike he was still wearing and which was left on recording what was by then a private conversation. Wonder if they'd have broadcast it if they'd caught Cameron or the idiot Osborne out the same way?
[/quote]

yeah I agree Plus ref the old biddy I don't wish to see her selling her story now not if she's accepted his apology - if she didn't accept it fair enough - but don't accept it then continue going on about it!!

What do you think our mate Dave might have been saying when he climbed into his car the other day after that bloke hijacked him and harangued him about schooling for his disabled kid?

Would he have been happy to have every word he said broadcast to the nation?

[url width=584 height=390]http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y272/ashadeofnight/Cameron.jpg[/url]

Probably not, but I don't think Cameron would've called him a bigot.

Anyway, Cameron used to have a disabled kid himself until he died last year so I would've thought he would've been sympathetic.

This.


They are all cunts, I can't believe how anybody spends neuron time thinking about 'which option of three completely similar parties I have been presented with (and no other parties/individuals stand a fucking chance) will I vote for?"

There's no option on the ballot paper for "I don't want any government" unfortunately.

Well no, because the discussion they had was about the mainstreaming of disabled children in schools, not moaning about all the immigrants.

I'm pretty sure that the first part of the conversation, the "shit I could do without that, who put me with that bloke?" bit would have sounded very similar to GB's comments.

We all fucking do it.

Paxman was the funniest on Newsnight last night, how the fuck no-one on the panel reminded him of his unawares comments about Dave whilst still on mike after their interview last week I don't know.

That's because the rest of us inhabit this thing called "reality" (you may have heard of it) where the process of moving from a society which requires a state apparatus to one which does not is a little bit more complicated than it is in the dreamworld you live in

Fuck off Lumpy Cunty, I know what reality is, it is fucked.. What I am thinking of is a different society which could be reality, as it has not been tried before. I'm sick of wankers like you living in the here and now with 50+% taxation, corrupt and stupid national and international governments, interference in every aspect of our lives, never ending state spending increases which will ultimately bring the whole system crashing down and so on.

Yes, there is a process to move from one to the other and that is what I am interested in. It isn't complicated, it only requires an increasing percentage of any population to consider an alternative that is based on common sense and philosophy rooted in average human behaviour.

You really don't grasp the concept of state power do you?

All it takes is enough people to think like you and all the structures that are in place to protect existing property relations will just disappear will they?

At least you share one thing with proper anarchists then.

http://store.perspicuity.com/sections/Products/Lemming.sized.jpg

Most Labour voters....because there parents did...they do.
For some reason we are shite scared of change in this country.

Which without going all TalkTalk, would be a good thing in my opinion. In fact, I'll go the whole hog. What TT says makes more sense to me that alot of the other shit people spout dressed up as politics and "for the greater good". It's always stank of nothing but propaganda and control tactics to me.

And with regard to grasping the concept of state power, we give them that power don't we? In our state? They're supposed to act with our interests at heart and that hasn't been the case in my lifetime - I don't think.

In my defence politics is something i chose not to understand. It's always seemed to me that we're merely pawns in a stupid egotistical game played by those in power. All i know is i'm a liberalist with a belief in freedom and a overwhelming quantity of apathy thrown in for good measure. I also know i don't believe in those wonderful tax justifying ideals of "Rich and Evil" and "Poor and Honest".

That's kind of not what I was getting at.

My point is not that I wouldn't like to see radical change to the way society is ordered, but that as a good Leninist I understand that the state is:

Firstly - Essentially there to protect the status quo - that being the existing set opf property relations, keeping small minority that own virtually fucking everything owning virtually fucking everything; and

Ultimately - "based on armed bodies of men". Dress it up all you like with the welfare state, and the nice concessions that the ruling class grant us in order to keep us in line, when it comes down to it the state rests on having blokes with guns to stop the people taking charge should they chose to.

That last one might seem a bit over the top, but you don't have to read to much about the general strike, or even think back much further than the miners or printers strikes, to state power will move physically to inforce the interests of the ruling class over those of the rest of us.

Anarchists, of which TT is a really strange variety, tend to choose to ignore this. Those that acknowledge that the existing state needs to be broken up seem to think that you can then not replace it with anything and everything will be fine. As if the ruling class will just realise the error of their ways and slope off to become geography teachers or something.

I know that questions of how you would structure a state that was truely democratic and participative are difficult, but that's no reason to pretend that one isn't needed.

Surely human nature dictates that a truly democratic state is as unrealistic as a truly socialist state?

I'm all for a scaled down government with reduced interference. Its one of my biggest hates of labour.

However the idea that you can completly remove any form of government and it wont lead to total civil disorder is mental.  People riot over football for fucks sake.

Ooooh, what about the eventual "whithering away of the state" under the genuinely socialist regime which is supposed to follow the dictatorship of the proleteriat, you naughty Marxist, you? Go to the back of dialectical materialism class and write out Das Kapital 100 times!

This is exactly why I do not like and/or understand politics. That whole post is just complete jibberish to me.

 :nod:

It's supposed to be - it's (in part anyway) taking the piss out of the pseudo-scientific terms Marxism is riddled with

Putting aside the fact that this is more a question of historical materialism than dielectical, your point is a bit irrelevant. The state that "whithers away" can only be a workers state, a state that enforces the rule of the majority labouring classes until eventually there are no classes, everyone works, everyone collectively owns the means of production, distribution and exchange.

With no class contentions that state then, as you say, "whithers away". No state in a class based society is going to do that though you silly sausage.

Have another read of "The State and Revolution for Dummies" and do more than just laugh at the pictures of men with funny beards this time.

Duplicate thread alert.

Please rename as "People are twats".

Oh behave I'm just humouring PD, who seems to want to get into a "oh look I've read some Lenin" competition with me.

That's a great idea for a TV game show.

We could get Fred Elliot to compere.

Who wants nobody to be a Millionaire unless everyone can be?

No I was just reviving the game we used to play in the 80s of "who can get a rise out of the Trots by reciting their patter back at them". None of it makes a word of bloody sense