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Apparently the Premier League are considering a playoff for 4th place and a Champions League spot for the teams finishing 4th to 7th. Unsurprisingly, all clubs are in favour of it except for the big four but expect Liverpool to change their mind if they finish 5th this season.

I like the idea. Whilst its a bit stupid to have a playoff for 4th place, the reward for the winner means a lot will be at stake and it will generate a fair few quid through TV income and ticket sales. Most importantly it will make the Premier League more interesting going in to the final games and give smaller clubs more of a hope of getting something out of the season.

They only need a 14-6 majority so there is a good chance it could happen.

The playoffs in the football league provide some of the best football of the year, so it could work in the Prem also

First time I heard this I thought it was a stupid idea, but really, as LS says, its no different really to the football league playoffs.  It could also help break up the idea of a "big four" - if a couple of different teams gain success in the system the Champions League money may at least begin to be spread around a bit.

Of course, it could just create an even more separate "big three".

At first I liked the idea, as it could make the champions league representation in England less of a closed shop and spread that income round a bit

But Billy makes a good point, it could just reduce the big 4 to a big 3. Although in some ways you could agrue that its already a big 2 as Arsenal and Liverpool are clearly some way short on Mau U & Chelsea, both on and off the field.

It would only create a big 3 if Arsenal or Liverpool (or, theoretically, somebody else) was able to command that third spot. In the case that they don't, or that (for example) Arsenal and Liverpool alternate between 3rd and 4th, the financial effect is likely to be quite spread out, assuming that the team finishing 4th doesn't qualify for the CL every year.

Thinking more about it, I'm not sure spreading the money out a bit would have too much effect to be honest.  Its not like the chasing pack of Villa , Spurs & Man City havnt spunked a few quid in recent seasons to challenge the top 4.

Unless something fairly dramatic is done regarding the distribution of Sky money in the premier league nothing is going to change and the league will become increasingly boring.

Ideally, i think the champions league should be for the champions in each country. And in that i would include the winners of the FA cup (or foreign equivalent). It annoys me that finishing 3rd and 4th is actually classed as an achievement... surely you should aim to win the league, not settle for finishing 20 odd points behind and being ridiculously rewarded for that 'achievement'?

Yes.  Yes.  Yes.  I couldn't agree more.

I thought the TV money was distributed pretty fairly, isn't it something like £30m to £50m dependent on the number of TV appearances and league position. The real difference in income is in other areas - ticket sales, sponsorship, merchandise sales and so on which smaller clubs are never going to make up.

Why don't we have a 20 team playoff where each team plays each other twice and are then ranked in points order....oh

And yes, chumps league should be exclusive to the champs of each country thus giving the smaller nations entry who normally get knocked out by Celtic, Rangers or LIverpool in the qualifying round.

FC Vaduz of Liechtenstein in the group stages, getting battered by Real Madrid.

Could be comic viewing!

Fully agree on that. The first two places, who go automatically through to the final stages, are the Prem champs and the FA Cup winners,i.e. sides that have WON something, and the next two spots go to the next two in the league. This will mean the FA Cup will actually mean something, and not have half-empty grounds like it was at Bolton, and the top 4 will take it seriously.

The play-off won't happen, as like this season, they haven't got enough time to fill it in, and they say they already play too many games !!!

It would be more interesting than watching Chelsea and Liverpool battle it out over who can gain the most throw ins.

Fuck the group stages. League winners only, no seeding, straight knockout. Like a proper cup competition.

I'd love that, but we all know that would never happen.  Far too uncontrollable and unprofitable for UEFA's liking.

I agree, but the big teams will not agree to that. They cannot make their millions by playing pointless games. The competition ONLY gets interesting once the knockout rounds arrive.

Its the big clubs around Europe that control the format of the Champions League and the other European competitions - UEFA are nothing more than a figure head. If anything we're likely to see more clubs from the big countries qualifying for the Champions League or it becoming a full blown mid-week European league.

Like the idea, but worried it could lead to the re-appearence of "PL Abroad" as these games would presumably be at nice "neutral venues" and it then would likely only be a matter of time before it became whichever Emirate fancies paying the most.

Many people question why a 4th placed team can enter the "Champions League" - but a team that finished in 7th? At least in the Football League there's an instant guarentee of promotion if you win the P-O's... This will see teams like Aston Villa, Everton, Manchester City struggle to qualify with tricky trips to Turkey, Russia etc

Richard Keys and Co tell us that the Premier League is the best in the world yet the suits want to discuss sexing it up and Americanising the game even further? This will be the jewel in the crown of Sky Sports - Soon enough the Play-Offs will be sold as more important that finishing 1st!

Agree about the oddity of finishing 4th being viewed as an achiement these days. All it gets you is play off game with the prize being the groups stages of the CL. Its not even guaranteed.

I'm bit of a traditionalist - champions only should have thier own cup competition (EUFA cup), and cup winners (over here the the FA cup) would have a seperate competition (Cup Winners Cup) - non of this qualifying rounds, league, and then knock-out rubbish - just keep it simple.
The way things are going, it could end up like speedway.
Swindon finish top of the league, and then end up "loosing the title" to a team below them in theplay-offs.  What's that all about?!

Rugby Union is the same as speedway these days too.

We had that argument from all the managers that finished 3rd and lost in the playoffs when they first started but everyone is used to it now. Everyone knows the rules before the season starts so what's the problem?

The problem for me is the prize. It's not involving promotion nor is it a championship it's merely a qualifying place for a European competition that these "play-off" clubs might not even get in to the megabucks stage.

It's a blatant selling tool for overseas interest in the same vein as the 39th fixture... Saying that I wouldn't be surprised if all of a sudden these Play-Offs were held in China, Australia, the U.S.A, Japan or to the highest bidder.

At the end of the season, the champions (league winners) should be the team that finished top.  If you want to have some sort of play-off, have it for something else!
Can you imagine being top of the premier league after 38 games, and not being presented the trophy because you lost in the play-offs to a team 14 points below you? 
Everyone might be used to it, but to be crowned champions you should finish top of your league.  If you want to have some play-offs as well (money making excersise) then someone else could be "play off winners" but the team at the top should remain "champions".

I haven't taken much notice of this, but isn't the proposal for 4 to PO for the 4th CL place?

Yep.

It works in sports like Rugby, the top lot playing off to win, because that sport can be severely impacted during the season by having good players vanish on international duty for half a season. The play off acts as the leveller to ensure there is a chance that the winner is actually not just the team who has no internationals.

It wouldn't work that way in football because we operate the opposite way, league games stopping for international fixtures.  The winner at the end of the season was the best team for the season.

I have no issues against the play off per say, but I just have issues with the whole format where teams who haven't won the domestic league qualify anyway.  I'd rather the FA Cup winners were given a spot if we have to go down this road, just to make it important again.

Even then, it's not just finishing 4th that is seen as an achievement, clubs would rather finish 15th in the PL than win the FA Cup - nuts.

I think it's a great idea. More entertainment. Something to enjoy at the end of the season after yet another borefest of 38 games where Chelski or Manure have won the title with no other real competition. Make the league exciting again because it's been utter shite this season.

Football is entertaining and the top flight has never needed to do this in the past when Liverpool won everything etc etc etc so why now? Money.

It won't happen, they're just throwing things out there to see what the reaction is unless they take these proposed Play-Offs abroad.

Yes... and nobody has said anything different ???

I find the Prmier League total shite. The relegation battle is a lot more exciting than the top 4 battle for sure. This season isn't too bad for 4th spot but yet again the top 2 is all too predictable. People go on about American sport systems etc and how they are crap but it's never predictable and in stuff like Ice Hockey the team that wins the championship never gets the best players because the bottom teams get priority on free agents etc so you will very rarely see the same team win it each year.

Yes, but do you really want football to go the same way regarding free agents? The whole structure of the sports is different, and thus the culture. As much as we bemoan the influence of money in allowing huge divisions to appear in the game, I'm not sure there is a way out of it without reshaping the whole structure of English football. This would involve abolishing the Premier League, which is never going to happen.

I really do hope that one or two teams can begin a sustained challenge to the 'Big Four'. Spurs, Villa and City all look capable to some extent. I have nothing against Liverpool, but in some ways to see the good ship Anfield implode would be quite nice as a shock to the Premier League system.

Could this not result in poorer teams in the competition = worse performance = lower coefficients = less european places?

Yes, but this won't change the Premier League.

Manchester United, Chelsea, Arsenal and Liverpool will still dominate the top spots but fans will have to fork out more money to attend these "big" Play-Off fixtures and I doubt that such games will not be covered by their season tickets. All this for the award of a possible Champions League place, if they can get past the qualifying round.

In the top flight accolades should be clear-cut - you either win something or you don't. My feeling is that there is far too much joy for finishing 4th. I can almost guarentee that if Liverpool finished 4th Benitez will talk like it's a major victory and so will their fans. Just for a few more Sky fixtures.

So if you finish 4th in the PL and then win the playoffs to get in to the CL, it will be a bit shit, not a real victory and not worth celebrating?

So how does that work with us if we finish 6th and win the playoffs to get in to the Championship?

I take it you won't be celebrating if we do as its all a bit shit.

Well, if you read my comments I talk about the top flight - the major vehicle of our game to the rest of the world and apparently the best league there is.

These top flight clubs do not need these extra fixures because the majority of them will all be European competitions anyway whether it's the Champions League or Europa. It's up to the clubs to take the latter competition more seriously.

I don't give a toss. Swindon are not in the Premiershit and won't be any time soon.

Not read the whole thread but I concur, don't really care either way. It keeps the season alive and the Champions League long since stopped being the competition of Champions anyway.

Ideally I'd like the FA Cup winners to get in on the act as well. But there is sweet FA the Premier League would allow this to happen. The FA Cup is not their concern.

all it would do is give the big teams a second chance of getting in the champions league if they happened to finish 5th. For example if Liverpool finished fifth this season and Spurs finished fourth, i would still expect Liverpool to beat Spurs over two legs or even in a play off final should it happen. There is a big gap in class between the teams finishing fourth and seventh. How can a team finishing seventh merit a place in a competition for domestic champions? Barcelona vs Birmingham city, no thanks.

One thing they have forgotten about is what happens, like Liverpool in 2005, when they won the Chumpions League despite them finishing outside the top 4. The rules now state that they take over from the 4th place team, if they win the competition without qualifying. Due to the fact that the final takes place at the end of May, are they going to hold the play-offs in June? I don't think so.

i thought if a team wins it they still had to qualify through their league position for the next year, sort of like the world cup now?

UEFA changed the rules after the Liverpool incident - the winners qualify automatically now and take one of the places assigned to their country no matter which league position they finish in.

Gay

I thought it was changed so that if someone did a 'Liverpool' they wouldnt get to enter the following season as holders at the expense of someone else.

If you win the CL and finish 5th I thought you didnt qualify

Yeah that was my point, i think we are right. Just like the world cup holders still have to qualify for the right to take part?

You're wrong. If the winners don't qualify automatically they take the place of the lowest placed qualifier from their country, who then go in to the UEFA Europa League. Its UEFA's rule and don't forget they created a place out of nothing for Liverpool that year - the FA had told them tough shit you're not getting a CL place.

yeah your right. Just checked because i thought you were lying  ;D