Thetownend.com

yes we're all grateful to AF for saving the club, etc etc. blah blah blah

However, as i see it, the honeymoon period is now well and truly over.

Since the take over we've had:

1) Malpas
2) The "delusions of grandeur" outburst
3) losing out on all our summer signings
4) the new manager fiasco.


Is this board fit to run a football club...?

Fitton is not free from criticism but he does not deserve that shit.....fuck off.

An intelligent response i thank you.

oh dear. fuck off back to thisis

We've also got a stable football club not in danger of going under next week.

On the pitch, all football clubs go through periods of ups and downs, it would be boring if they didn't. It's a shame that the new board's honeymoon period didn't coincide with a nice big up, but that's football, especially at this level.

 Very little of what this Board has done, has been outside of their stated objective.

 We'd got used to the previous regimes who didn't live in the real world...so take on a high profile management team promise them this and that, then not be able to fund wages after a while...not be able to pay creditors..including the tax man.

 Of course in their world none of this mattered as a period of admin could wipe out large chunks of debt...and as a football club isn't like a proper business, you'd probably get away with it.

 This Board have made it plain from the outset...finances would be kept on a very tight rein...quite rightly so, otherwise a Looton or Bormuff and the Coinference loom.

 Fans need to realise that we're still in a precarious position, as far as making progress goes....it will take time to undo the damage of the recent past.

 

ok in anticipation of further neanderthal abuse, can I just say I haven't expressed a view here. I have heard
a number of our supporters express a worry about the football decision making ability of the current board so I thought I'd put it to the wider audience.

Can we have a grown up debate please?

Fitton in not perfect shock.

List the minus' from the previous regime - I think you'll find that the list goes on for longer. The transfer point is harsh. Malpas was a risk and it didn't work out, I'm sure in your life you've done the same.

Let's wait and see who Fitton appoints before we slate him for this!

So in conclusion, Fitton can take some criticism because he's the chairman and has allowed this to go on and unsettle an already unsettled fanbase. However, I disagree with most of your points, if not all ;)

I think I've only made one point, namely that the honeymoon period is over. Hardly controversial.

The other points i listed were factual or semi factual.

ie Malpas was appointed and was less than a success.
The delusions of grandeur rant was an outburst, perhaps justified, perhaps not.
The current manager search is a fiasco.
We did lose out on all our summer signings, which ultimaltely is down to the board.

Which point do you not agree with?

Fitton is far from incompetent,he's an idealist,but in todays football world you probably have to have

a much tougher edge, as a football club chairman.

Carrying on this sorry thread a bit. Since the takeover we seem to be entering a new footballing realm of fan ideas, where chairmen have become the new football managers.

Does this mean we want really hands-on chairmen who get involved right down to the on the pitch stuff, or do we want the back-room figure who sets things in motion behind the scenes in terms of finance and negotiations and then watches everything play out?

Fitton hasn't done himself any favours with the blowing off big socks comments, or this overly lengthy appointment process as a whole. Saying that, it's difficult to judge the full details from the snippets of press releases and piles of rumour. It'll be interesting to see if we get more of an honest, "transparent", account of what's gone on once the whole affair is over.

On the other side there was always pressure on the new board to be open right from the off, and they have been to an extent, certainly a contrast to the nonsense fridays of the old board. Having given it some thought, I think you can some up Fitton's mistakes in the current appointment process in one wonderfully witty phrase.

He counted his socks before putting them on.

Typical cynical Swindon fan's view. Why not look at it from an open-minded, future building point of view.

1) Malpas - Fitton appointed him on the basis that he was a very good coach, talked a good game and fitted in with Fitton's future ambitions. Ok, it didn't work out but it was Fitton's first dabble in the managerial recruitment process and he got his fingers burnt.
2) The "delusions of grandeur" outburst - I don't see anything wrong with that. Fitton's right, some Swindon fans think we have a god given right to be winning every game and that we should be back in the Premiership within two seasons. They need bringing back down to earth and that's exactly what Fitton's tried to do. Just because you and other people don't agree with it doesn't mean you're right.
3) losing out on all our summer signings - Fitton's a shrewd businessman and has already proven he won't pay above market rate for players and managers. If a player or his agent is holding us to ransom over his wages stating he can get higher elsewhere then Fitton's right in letting them go. From the club's point of view, we want players who will come and play for Swindon for the sheer want of it - not because we offer the highest wages going. We're never going to progress on the pitch with a squad made up of overpaid "I'll jump ship to the highest bidder" primadonnas.
4) the new manager fiasco. - As point 1), Fitton got his fingers burnt first time round and wants to get the right man. Yes, it's taking a long time and yes, it's getting quite frustrating (and I include myself in that) but for the good of Swindon Town Football Club and it's future then if Fitton needs to take another 2 weeks to get the right man then so be it.

Fitton and his consortium saved this club for oblivion - that deserves more than a honeymoon period, that deserves our full and eternal gratitude. Yeah, it's a sappy-happy-clappy comment but it's what I believe.

I ask thee - has any board ever got things totally right? I doubt it.

As chairman and as the public face of the consortium, yes there are questions about the current situation that need answering but Fitton has gone on the record and said that his reputation is on the line. This is not a fiasco, well I don't think so. In comparison to previous mishaps that has occurred at STFC, it's far from the state some think we're currently in.

It's not ideal, especially for STFC's nervous punters but as I've said, let's wait and see who he brings in.

Thank you for your views. I am sorry you regard this thread as a "sorry" thread.

Ultimately, the board - as all boards do - hold the future of the club in their hands and in a liberal democracy should be accountable and open to scrutiny; they themselves would not dispute that.

The fact that without AF the club would have folded is now an argument that is starting to wear a little thin and I for one do not believe that that should make the board above criticism. They have made serious mistakes and it is worth discussing that.

Fitton's statement todat that his "reputation is on the line" is tacit admittance that he has failed miserably over the last year. Let's hope he reaches the top of the learning curve sooner rather than later.

How have they made mistakes? In commparison to what? Don't forget this club's been subject to years and years of mismanagement. I think some people just can't recognise the difference of a club being run properly and business like.

We could have John Batchelor.

Swindon fan in cynical outburst shocker.

I apologise, I just can't help it.

He's sorting this club out from the bottom upwards. Sadly alot of the hard work they do goes unnoticed because we watch the football and don't take notice on other things.

Surely his comments were in RE: to the current managerial search only?

I dunno Rich, every time a board appoints a manager their reputation is on the line, I would think that's stating the obvious.

To me it's clear Fitton as a successful businessman is not used to making bad decisions which Malpas ultimately proved to be. Is he now too obsessed about repeating the error that he's become a ditherer?

We are after all perilously close to the relegation zone.

Regarding the Malpas appointment, I've been giving this some thought too (too much fucking thinking for me, somethings wrong).

Have you ever watched any big poker tournaments? Despite the increase in numbers playing, and the growth of the big tourneys, you still see the same top players reaching the last few tables at these competitions. They're obviously very good players. but even these top of the top players don't win every hand. Often, despite doing everything right with what you've been dealt, how you've countered others bets and put in bets yourself, you will still lose the hand. It's part of the game.

Imagine you were a spectator who only saw this one hand. It'd be easy to presume that the player did the wrong thing. Take it a bit further, imagine watching without knowing what variety of poker they were playing or what the bets were. Almost impossible to judge if the player did the right or wrong thing.

I think I've lost control of this analogy a bit, I think the point is pretty clear though.

but we'll hopefully still have 60 odd points to play for when the new man comes in....i'd be happy betting against folk who think we're going down..keep the faith in Mr Fitton that he will come up trumps.....as long as it aint John Ward, Lawrie Sanchez or stan staunton

flammable Ben.

Interesting poker analogy. No idea what your point is but interesting nonetheless.

Looking at the on the field decline over the last year and the current board's culpability, and to continue the poker theme, the question is, were the board dealt a bad hand or were they dealt a good hand and just played it badly.

I was saying that even if you play a good hand well, you often have no guarantee of winning it.

In fact, often the right move can be to play a hand even if you're well under 50% to win, implied odds and all that.

EDIT:
Although carrying on with all this poker bollocks. The current situation may be more one of moving all in before you get blinded out.

Fitton has been brilliant for the club...but ive been dissapointed with this appointment,or more the time its taken,the MM appointment was a mistake,the next appointment may be a mistake but the time its taken is wrong,its not good for the fans or indeed players and backroom staff alike.
My feeling is he would have liked Byrne to have got the results,like the Sunderland guy.....but theres something not right someware if you cant get a manager from 50 odd applications.

Yeah Fitton is shite and the rest of them. Let's bring back Diamond Mike......

Think this is one oe the morons db was talking about

"Yeah Fitton is shite and the rest of them. Let's bring back Diamond Mike......"

That is precisely the kind of pithy comment we can do without.

Yes the last board were the worst board in the history of the universe; no one would disagree with that.

But all that means is that the current board is somewhere between the best and second-worst board in the universe.

Which should not be a reason to attempt to stifle debate.

"Think this is one oe the morons db was talking about"

Prey which of my points do you consider moronic? I am interested.

Mr Fitton deserves the freedom of swindon for what he's done like saving the club from going bust which enables me to watch my team every week or two weeks,plus cheaper season ticket's,plus he interacts with the fan's and let's them what's going on,people moan when the board says nothing and moan when they do.

If we go down we go down it wont be the first time will it? he's looking at a long term fix not a quick fix that see's us back in the same boat again 6 months time.

Hopefully we'll stay up,give the bloke a chance to get it right he said he will.

Just think what you would be doing saturdays had he not saved us.      

This board is the best we've had for years. They actually run this football club properly. I'm not going to go on and attempt to reason my argument because I don't need to. It's fucking obvious.

I concur.

This could be an interesting thread. Fitton isn't above criticism.

Not that I'm sticking up for you gasha, you're not helping either. There have been good responses to your original post, do you agree with them?


(I agree with the sentiment but...) Then what's the point of your post then. If it's that obvious you might as well put your reasoning down. Sounds bad otherwise.

Ifind it all moronic to be honest mate

Its the best weve had for years....but its got alot to learn as is to be expected with a board with no previous experience at this level.
It was obvious from day one that we wouldnt sell 6000 tiks when they appointed Malpass.
It was obvious alot of people would defult payment on them if we were playing poorly.
And its obvious when you sack a manager you have a replacement lined up or at least a plan of action.
So i concur that ime very happy with the board but very unhappy at being fifth from bottom.

"This board is the best we've had for years."


Mr Bhaji, I wonder if you are confusing "best" with "richest".

A group of very rich dudes have saved STFC from oblivion, yes, but the two questions that spring to mind are a)  should we always be happy whatever the results on the field because "we nearly went bust", and b) does that make the board above criticism?

My guess is the current owners themselves would say no) and no)

Fair point Ben. I think it's fucking obvious this is the best board we have had in years. Sadly people like Gasha1 obviously don't know that. Needless to say as pointless as it was i couldn't really be arsed to explain.

"Ifind it all moronic to be honest mate"

I am not sure dismissing a complete intellectual standpoint as moronic suffices to prove ones point. Please do go on...

I like new Bart. He makes an effort.

To expect every comment to be a full-length argument was wishful thinking gasha1.

I'd say that too. But that is a long way from being incompetent.

They got the Malpas appointment wrong. They have taken a long time to appoint his successor. No more no less.

"(I agree with the sentiment but...) Then what's the point of your post then. If it's that obvious you might as well put your reasoning down. Sounds bad otherwise."

Totally fair point.

I am thinking "Emperors New Clothes" here.

Should the above board be above criticism because they saved the club or is this another false dawn?

What do people feel about the decline on the field over the last year? Should the board share the blame?

I am simply wondering what my fellow supporters think

Is Fitton competent - simple answer... Absolutely...!!

 Yeah Jeremy Wray should be out there heading corners away.

 

The thing is Gasha,if you go to Maidstone,Barrow,Southport,Wimbledon,Workington and dare i say Oxford then there fans would be over the moon with our board,because the first thing about running a club is getting things right off field,,its no good being top of the lge if you go bust,as i stated earlier Fitton has admitted to making mistakes,the new board will make plenty more before this club is a success...i will be around to Swindon Town FC play in the football league,i couldnt have thaught that before this new regime came in.

"I'd say that too. But that is a long way from being incompetent."

Batch I never said the board was incompetent. I put the (yes, provocative) question, is the current board incompetent? But that was to encourage discussion more than anything.

This is quite an interesting debate actually, about how much responsibility ultimately the board of a football
club has for its on field performance.

My actual view is that one couldn't possibly judge the competence, business or football wise, of a group of football club owners after a year, but on the other hand, football club owners are accountable to not just their shareholders but to a group of very passionate customers, ie us. I wonder if this is one of the lessons AF and co are learning.

We have been dissapointing on the field since they took over, thats a given. If it takes one step backwards to take two forwards though then i'm all for it.

leefer

excellent post.

This is the crux of the matter.

Lets just say for the sake of argument that without Fitton there would be no STFC, we don't know that for sure but its pretty likely.

Question is, should we therefore be happy if we plunge in to the Blue Square Premier?

Or should we want the best for this football club, which means getting back to the Premier. Which a lot of us saw, so whats wrong with wanting the best.

Discuss.

Should the board be above criticism? No, of course not. They came in and saved the club which was (and is) great for the fans and for the town, but any rich twat could have done the same and then sent us down the pan a year later. We have to judge on what they have done since then, and I'd say Fitton has done a good job.

Is this another false dawn? No. It's not false, as the board are running the club properly, and it's not a dawn - it's going to take a lot longer than an hour! Unfortunately some fans think that shrewd business sense means splashing the cash in return for 'guaranteed' success which will help us break even in the long run. Teams like Leicester, Leeds, and a little club called Swindon have all done that in the past and ended up much worse off for it.

Should the board be blamed for the decline on the pitch? To some extent, yes. They appointed Malpas and he turned out not to be the man for the job. However, every club has had managers who've done a poor job, and this time next year we could be sitting here thinking what a great appointment Malpas' successor has been! In terms of playing staff, it has been frustrating to see a lack of top notch players materialising in Town shirts, but we are still running on a strict budget and the squad we have now is, in my opinion, perfectly capable of reaching a perfectly acceptable mid-table finish. We've made it hard for ourselves so far but I'm still hopeful that it can be turned around.

Fitton is a good business man but as time goes by I am starting to wonder if he is a football man.

Just a few things I will highlight that, in truth probably arent all down to Fitton but maybe the board as a whole.

Contracts - I am really a bit miffed with this. Comminges was playing well this time last season but we waited till March when other clubs were interested to finally offer him a new deal. Too late, if he had been offered one 3/4 months earlier he would have signed.

This season we have Sean Morrison and yes that kid again I like to talk up Lloyd Macklin. Apart from Simon Cox two of our most sellable assests. They both have decent potential and are very young. Macklin has made some serious impressions at youth level, even to have all the top scouts come and watch him. Morrison has made a decent go of being a first team player. New contracts? nothing, time left to run 6months? too late. Better clubs will offer them contracts, agents will turn their heads and they'll end up going for tribunal pittance.

Agents - Whilst I admire Fittons stance on these its dog eat dog. Even if we agree not to pay an agent for a certain transfers you can bet your house on the fact that another club will. The no dealing with agents rule would only work is every other club had the same stance as us. They dont, so we're not even starting on level pegging.

Backroom staff - Malpas should have been able to bring some of his own men in.

New Manager - Its been nearly 6 weeks and we've gone from 50 to 30 to 4 to 3 to 2 to 1 back up to 50 again. If Byrne was getting results I could understand Fitton taking his time but Byrne isnt.

Next month could really be the month will tells us the most about Fitton. The new manager and the transfer window is vitally important to us. We need to sign the young players with potential on long term deals, we need to refuse bids for our main players (well, just Cox) and we have to get the right manager in.

Lets see what Fitton does in January but I must admit, a bit foolish or even knee-jerkish but each day this manager search goes on I lose a little bit of faith in Fitton.

ok reevesforengland.

Perhaps ultimately what you are saying is that, yes, we've made huge strides off the pitch, but its taking time to get it right on the pitch. So lets be a little more patient.

This is a rookie board as far as football is concerned, and they are intelligent enough to learn from their mistakes.

So not incompetent, more learner drivers.

"Backroom staff - Malpas should have been able to bring some of his own men in."

This is one of the serious mistakes AF and co need to learn from.

Not only have they saved the club from oblivion, but they've undertaken a restructuring of the mess that was left, into a viable business that hopefully at some point in the future can sustain it's position in the football league.

To me that's a good job on Priority 1 or A or Alpha or whatever you want to call it. The most important stuff.

The downside of this stability; the aim of a club which mostly supports itself (completely self-sufficiant may be an unachievable dream), is that we have to accept that the paying above our means for success route is no longer going to be open to us.

Should we criticise Fitton and co for not going for the money bags approach? They've obviously got the money to sustain it in the short term if they wished, but I don't think we should.

I didn't want Diagrecunt out because he wasn't paying millions for players, I wanted him out because he was running the club into the ground. I welcomed Fitton with his plan for stability, and I still agree with that plan. Paying above a clubs means for success always ends up badly.

The problem with the stability plan is that it's meant that the "new dawn" of the Fitton era wasn't guaranteed (and hasn't) coincided with a good period on the pitch. It was always a risk. Fitton took over with the club in fucking great giant mess, remember that we couldn't actually afford Sturrock. Must have been a difficult time to appoint a manager.

Looking back a year ago, at the time I thought the reasons behind the Malpas appointment were fairly sound. Hindsight is wonderful, but hindsight bias is a dangerous thing.

No we shouldnt but alot of our fans expect it.

thank you for your points ben.


"Should we criticise Fitton and co for not going for the money bags approach? They've obviously got the money to sustain it in the short term if they wished, but I don't think we should."

I don't think anyone on this thread is criticising AF for not spending enough money on team building although there are probably people who think that way. If that's their view fine, let's discuss it. Thats what this thread is about.



"Looking back a year ago, at the time I thought the reasons behind the Malpas appointment were fairly sound. Hindsight is wonderful, but hindsight bias is a dangerous thing."

I agree, its easy to be wise after the event, although there were plenty of people who thought from his record at Motherwell that MM would be a disaster. Although being lumbered with DB can't have helped.

Again, the question is, how much should the huge strides off the field make us suppress our criticism of football related decisions?

Lets face it, there is a certain "sun shines out of Fitton's arse" sentiment kicking around. Is this a good thing?
Does it matter?

Football is a game of ups and downs. Take the rough with the smooth, Fitton and his consortium have done a stirling job off the field. Time will tell if they can sort it on, personally I think it is too early. If we go down and dont compete to come straight back up and slip down the table then clearly they are above their heads if we stay up, he's chosen a good new manager etc etc.. Too early to tell IMO so far off the pitch 10 out of 10, On the pitch I will wait and see. I think Fitton would happily sit down and chat to fans with any "concerns" etc. Whenever I have spoken to Nick Watkins he has always had a reasoned debate

The only mistakes that Fitton has made was appointing Malpas and taking forever to appoint his successor...... hardly grounds to label him incompetent in my opinion.

I know we're not calling him that here, as we're merely playing devils advocate and encouraging debate blah blah blah

But I feel if I had made some bad calls during my working career (like we all have done) I would feel a tad enraged if shareholders were branding me incompetent.

If I continued making bad errors of judgement and showed a complete lack of business nous for, lets say, five years, I would thoroughly deserve being labelled 'incompetent'

Fittons error in appointing Malpas only proved a mistake as the season unwinded, who knows, with a bit more luck he could have hit on the right chemistry and things could've been different. Ardiles was a superb manager for Swindon, but complete driveling shite at Newcastle  - so despite Malpas previous poor record, things could've turned out ok.

In fact, I ate a chicken pasanda in Dundee the other week, seemed a good idea at the time... proved a punishing mistake at about 4.32am...... so we all make bad calls of judgement.

Fittons 'error' in not appointing a new manager quickly is very frustrating, he's used to making executive appointments which do drag on for months, so I think he's applying the 'carefully does it' approach, he wants to recruit right this time, so he doesnt end up paying for his haste in six months time.

This principle is alien in the football world, it's alien to me, I'm boiling with fury about it all but I've been scolded on this forum many times before for being a 'negative fan' so I've decided to give the benefit of the doubt to Fitton. But if he does end up with say, Dave Hockaday in another 5 weeks time I'll being effin' furious with it all and I'll be calling Fitton all the names under the sun, but somehow I still think I'll get nowhere near calling him incompetent.......

Ok less than impressive though the football related judgement may have been, ultimately isn't it true that these guys have so much at stake financially that they simply can't afford to fail?

Of course we shouldn't suppress the criticism of on the field matters. I'm saying this doesn't make him incompetent, which you may have noticed is the title of your thread.

And what do you mean by "Again"? That questions be answered by numerous posts on the 4 pages of this thread. You seem to be more intent on stirring than actually responding to people who have answered your criticisms. This may be why your getting some angry responses.

Yes this forum is pretty pro-fitton at times, but the more well written responses, many of which you've seemed to ignored, have put across why, and pretty well. I don't even include my drunken ramblings on this.

I get the impression that you're more interested in stirring than you are for a real discussion about Fitton's tenure so far.


Wooot. Good for them. However, they're not the ones having to deal with the realities of taking over a club which is fully in the shit. Malpas was always a risk. Was it a risk worth taking at the time? One of those questions which we'll probably never be able to answer.

Was it a bad appointment? With hindsight obviously. If at the time it was the best fit with the restructuring of the club then possibly not.

You ask for serious debate but you start by dismissing what Fitton has done with 'blah blah blah'. Aside from that I think it is a good debate to have. Not only will it show up the board's 'improvement opportunities' but it also serves to highlight their achievements.

We have come on leaps and bounds off the pitch. Not so on the pitch which is unfortunate but hopefully easier to remedy. A lot of people's opinions, whether they be justfied or not, will hinge on the managerial appointment. Not just in the short term, as in 'who the hell is he?' but also in the longer term when we get to see what the new guy can do for the remainder of this term and next season.

I don't believe there is a honeymoon period as I don't believe the board have done anything heinous. The only notable downside has been Malpas and appointing a replacement. But to anyone who would suggest the board are incompetant I would say give them a chance, it's a steep learning curve no doubt and I'm sure they will have learned from last time.

" but the more well written responses, many of which you've seemed to ignored,"

Ben, I apologise if I have not responded to specific points; I assure you it was not intentional.

Which particular arguments do you think I should answer ?(sorry I can't really be bothered to trawl back through all the posts).

If you're not going to join in the debate then don't fucking bother starting the thread. Jesus.

"You ask for serious debate but you start by dismissing what Fitton has done with 'blah blah blah'. "

Sorry if this statement was misleading. What I meant by that was that what Fitton has achieved off the field is without question.

I was trying to say lets keep the debate to football related decisions, which a lot of people seem to think have been less than stellar, and not just the MM appointment.

For example? (apart from MM appointment and the taking forever to appoint someone else)

I'm just saying that for the first 3 pages you seem to ignore all the nice well written posts for the (maybe less well written) abuse you got. You can't blame people much either, you haven't exactly put yourself across well. As axs just pointed out, you didn't start well with the blah blah blah. That blah blah blah is pretty crucial.

We've all written our big lovely long pieces on how we see the new board, and between them they've more than answered your questions. How about you take the time to write a proper post to back up your apparently negative perceptions of the new board?

 

That would probably be the best way to convince me that you've got a real point to make.

I'll lock the thread for an hour if you're worried about it moving on?

axs,

thank you for your contribution.

I would be surprised if anyone seriously considered that having started the thread, that I haven't adequately contributed. If you feel otherwise, then that is unfortunate.

Personally I think this thread has been a fascinating barometer of current thinking on our situation, a worthwhile exercise in my view.

You're welcome.

"I'm just saying that for the first 3 pages you seem to ignore all the nice well written posts "

Which ones would you like me to reply to? Happy to oblige.

My last one?

'cos I'm struggling to think of any.... ;)

Reg's, Samdy's.

"That would probably be the best way to convince me that you've got a real point to make."

I don't really have a point to make other than that, like everyone else, I want the absolute best for the football club.

I was interested to know if everyone still has 100% belief in this board or whether any doubts are creeping in.

Do please remember, that the owners of any organisation must still maintain a level of accountability. I suppose if I do have a point, that would be it, but I'm sure you would agree.

Absolutely. I don't think anyone has or would argue otherwise.

You just ignored my invitation to make the effort to back up your own views. There's been lots of posts which have taken more effort to write out, with backed up opinions of Fitton's job so far, than your two dozen or so posts in this thread put together.

Are you not willing to back up your own opinion of the new boards efforts in the same way?

Of course, there's has to be a level of accountability, but do you not think that the well thought out posts throughout this thread show that it's something that we've all thinking about?

Just because the majority of people think the new board are doing a good job, doesn't mean that people are blindly accepting that they are.

"Of course, there's has to be a level of accountability, but do you not think that the well thought out posts throughout this thread show that it's something that we've all thinking about?

Just because the majority of people think the new board are doing a good job, doesn't mean that people are blindly accepting that they are."

I accept that point.


Ben, you should try starting a "controversial" thread and try responding to every single posting. I can assure you its
not easy.

It is for Ben, he lives for the TEF. It is his calling in life.

No of course not, and you don't have to. However if I was starting a controversial thread then I'd make some effort to explain why I had these point of view. It was clear from your initial question (blahblahblah) that you were concentrating on the negatives, but even when people had answered those points you didn't make any effort to back up your own view.

Why not just take the time now to write out where you think Fitton has failed and why? Ignore all the other posts if it takes you half an hour, some of my posts took me that amount of time to write out.

My view is very simple. Off the pitch everything they've done is great. On the pitch they've just about fucked up everything. So now I've got a stable club that is fucking shit as against a club that was going to the wall playing shit. Going forward I think I know which I'd prefer.

But hey, its worked. If rumours are true, Danny Wilson has been offered the job.

Who's to say it wasn't because the board weren't getting worried that people were beginning to question their "competence"?

Did you just try and take credit for the new managerial appointment?

Good work.

I didn't see it coming.

A doth of the proverbial to the gasha.

If I've learnt one thing from the past few weeks, it's that rumours are seldom true!

A banned gasha.

Nobody say I didn't give him enough opportunity to show he wasn't just on a wind up. A discussion about the new board is a good thing, but he had no interest about making it constructive. The forum is fucking messy enough at the moment without trolling thisis types.

Despite my big cunting gob, it's reality check time for me: I wouldn't say Fitton or the board are incompetent. They've fucked up a bit, as others have said but if I was offered a straight choice between life now, under Fitton's board, or life with the previous devious lying cunts, Fitton and co win hands down.

His words yesterday show that the bloke has humility. I interpreted his inteview as saying that he knows he fucked up with Malpas, he does not want to make the same obvious mistake again and that he's been fucked around at the last minute by his long-awaited first choice candidate to replace MM.

He came in after the takeover with all the right intentions and puffed his chest out a bit in public. Fuck me, did anyone begrudge him that having just ousted the stinking cunts from Newbury? As I've said before, I don't think Fitton or the board should be above criticism from fans, nor are they entitled to the sometimes vomit-inducing arse licking deference afforded to the Wills family over the years for apparently 'saving our club'. As long as they stay in touch with reality, don't fuck the club over and make progress - not fussed in the great scheme of things how fast they make it, though I reserve the right to bitch like fuck in the background from time to time - I'm going to be happy.

All the negative shit would be wiped out with the appointment of a decent Manager. FACT.

To answer the question i find it moronic to class a man as incompetent when he has cleared debt,offered good st offer, got good sponsorship deal with decent kit sponsor to come. He backed malpas financially and also knew the right time to sack him i could go on but cant be assed. The way you have written your post was to provoke reaction. Well done i have bit for the first time ever

Cheers delta, I was worried that I'd ruined the discussion for a bit.

I'm worried that Fitton is getting too involved the public appearance, what the fans want stuff. Seems weird to say after the last board were all hidden secrets.

The socks off blown jobby is a classic. Even though he said that they'd have to consider what was in the best interests of the club, it got us all excited. He may have been 75% certain that it would work out at the time, but if the 1 in 4 happens (like it has), then the public statement backfires horrendously (like it has).

But on the internal side, I don't really blame Fitton for the bizarre mess we've been in now, paticularly the last week. He always said it would take some time. We've obviously been a bit screwed over the management recruitment, it's fairly obvious now that we've lost out on 2-3 managers, probably for the combined reasons of the new board not wanting to pay over the odds, and other positions becoming available. It hasn't helped that we've had a few bad results in the mean time. It puts extra pressure on the situation.

I don't believe for a second that we're completely back to square 1, as much as I don't believe that the panic appointment is the way forward. I suppose we'll have to wait and see on that.

As I've tried to put forward in my Poker analogies, Malpas is obviously a mistake with hindsight, but was it wrong for us to take a risk on him at the time. I'm not convinced it was.

If appointing the wrong fellah to manage your club is incompetent then their isn't a competent football club administrator  anywhere in the world. They all fuck that up once in a while. Other than the likes of Fergie and O'Neill it's all a bit of a punt finding a manager. To expect it to be perfect first time out for this board is a bit much to ask for.

Shhh. lumps. I was trying to hint at that sort of thing with all my poker analogies and other random posts. I was going for the classic "people are more likely to believe something if they work it out for themselves" approach.

Might have been a bit optimistic. The TEF standard has dropped heavily over the last week.

Ben in 'Banning A Board Member' shocker......

Haha, that would be ace.

Fucking cunts. coming on here on the wind up.

gasha shouldn't have been banned

Getting things wrong from time to time is inevitable.

"incompetent" as per the OP's original question is forgetting about VAT, lying to shareholders at an AGM, signing players the manager doesnt want just because it might sweeten a deal to sell the club. etc.. etc..  (All of this seems like ancient history now, but it actually happened barely a year ago, which in itself is testament to the off-field job the new board have done).

We may have to accept that the twin objectives of a stable self sufficient football club and promotion to the Championship are incompatible at least for the time being. Unless we can get to a position where we are regularly getting 10,000 crowds, promotion to the Championship would likely be short lived anyway. (Ask Luton or Colchester).

The current manager search is frustrating for everyone, but in this instance Fitton can actually benefit from the fickle nature of football fans in general. As long as the new man gets the team organised and leads us safely up the table, nobody will remember how long it took to appoint him.

Of course, if the new manager cant turn it round and we go down, Fitton`s reputation will take a battering (as he has said himself), but that would also have happened if he made a quick appointment and it went wrong.

as far as i'm concerned fitton has made 2 bad errors of judgement.
1. the appointment of malpas (which, as time goes by was so bad it could see us relegated)
and 2. the townend season ticket pricing balls up.
he has also shot himself in the foot with comments he has made during the search for a new boss.
if he didn't come in and rescue the club,(for which all fans are gratefull) he'd be getting pelters now from everyone.
yes he does deserve slack for digging us out of a financial mess,but that doesn't get away from the fact that he has made bad mistakes.

Both of which could have paid off, they didn't/haven't ....

Malpas I'm sure was recommended by Sturrock.

The crowds for a side fifth from bottom of this division are far higher than likely if the season ticket scheme had not come into place.

with no atmosphere and postioned above the relegation zone on goal difference.

Hindsight is a wonderful thing....

of course herthab.but they are mistakes made nonetheless.

Quite Dell.

Malpas was a calculated risk, at the time I thought it seemed fair enough, and only because of the sheer weight of negativity did I think it was right to let him go.  We may need a few seasons of being shit but plodding in mid table, it wasn't 3 years ago we were god awful and I don't think we've done much since then other than have half a season in League 2 where sheer organisation and fitness gave us a good enough start to get back up.  Without those first 6 games I think we'd still be in League 2 now.

The season tickets was a success.  It's not Fitton's fault fans can't sing.  We spent a fair few years without the Town End at all and the atmosphere was better than it is now.  The business sense is clear to see though with crowds holding up well above where they would be, and I've spent a small fortune on beer and burgers in comparison to past seasons where I was paying on the day to get in.

We had an easy little run last season before the wheels fell off just before Sturrock left.  Given the off field state, it's actually quite remarkable we a) got back and b) stayed up.  If someone comes and clears our debts, ploughs millions into the club, then they can run it on sound business principals if they wish.  I'll knock a lack of investment, or an unwilligness to bend the spending budget regardless of position in the club, when I can afford to.

 Somebody has to take on the obergruppenfuhrer Sonic role...given that fB is pining for the angst ridden one..it only seems right and proper.

i think it's the glass half full-to the empty senario.i'm a pessimistic fucker so it's half empty.
if we had a name manager from pre season i reckon we'd have shifted even more season tickets.a cheaper option in the townend,more still.
you can bet alot wont renew next season unless something is done.

I bet you more than 2500 season tickets get sold next season regardless of division and even if they go back up in price.  We sold 3000 under the shit for brains past regime most seasons.

I'm not saying everything is rosey, in fact the past few games have been laughable to watch.  It's just we may need to accept this is how it will be for a while yet.  I'd reckon not until next season, with a years stable off field support to the budget and a gradual move from our past financial worries - which also will help with player recruitment, will we see proper green shoots on the field.  Lets not forget we must be the footballing equiv of Ratners still.  Can we really be trusted to pay-up? etc.

Incompetance is making the same mistake twice, which to date, Fitton has not done....

I reckon the odds of Fitton appointing Malpas again are pretty slim.

 Next season could very well see us in Div 4 playing in front of 3-4000. while Bath egg chasers play in front of 10,000+....which would be  surreal.

Only if flying wilderbeast are part of the set piece moves of both clubs.

 Is that what our corner routine is called?

agree. i aint said fitton is incompetant.making mistakes doesn't = incompetance.

and robt.i wont take your bet as i agree with you

Only just catching upwith the threads and one thing is patently obvious to me.
If anyone dares to criticise Fitton, the management, the players, the shit performances, the non-existant tactics there is a group of posters waiting to reply with the same old boring comments and name calling.
If you are all very happy with everything at STFC I am very impressed and only wish I could feel the same.
You always state that you are in the majority of supporters, but in my view after watching all but one of this seasons home games it appears to me that the majority of people (where I sit at least) are far from happy with the whole scenario.
Perhaps you Are the management or players in disguise.
Merry Christmas to one and all.

ok then

Shit! Rumbled

Perhaps it's because these people have different views and opinions, which they are quite rightly entitled to. Like I said to gasha in his thread last night; just because you don't agree with it doesn't mean you're right, it's just your opinion.

 Who's ovethehill talking to?

Fitton has achieved most of his 10 point plan. Given the fact there is time to rectify the situation on the pitch, within the timeframes set, then he hasn't failed and certainly isn't incompetant.

However, it would seem there is a lack of haste to appoint a new manager, which is a bit of a concern given our current situation.

Careful mate you'll get banned..

Come on gentlemen do you not recognise a troll fol-de-roll when you see one?   And not a particularly good one at that either!

No argument about 1, but disagree completely about 2.

As covered elsewhere, there is no evidence to back up the assertion that a price differential would have kept the Town End full up. Since the DR was built it has always been the first choice for most ordinary fans except when priced out of their reach.

You, along with plenty of others would like to see cheaper tickets in the Town End, but would you sit there yourself if the tickets were cheaper? I submit that most people would like others to move in there and create an atmosphere, but have no intention of doing so themselves.

Even if you are right, and a price differential would have kept, say 500 more season ticket holders in the Town end, it is something of a double edged sword as you have no control over what they sing! You could easily have ended up with a louder atmosphere, due to chants of "What a load of rubbish" for example.

Inevitably, the chants will reflect what fans see on the pitch which has, for the most part, been dire.

The long term goal of Championship football requires the club to grow significantly in terms of income and average levels of support. The season ticket move was a significant step in the right direction.

Relegation, while a big set back, would not make that goal impossible.

Returning the the old boards policy to basically write off any chance of attracting new fans, and screw the regulars as much as possible, would make that goal impossible.

I think your find it's most of the TEF,who tend to stick together and shoot other people down if they have a different opinion, unless they are part of a certain clique,last night was a typical example although the guy gasha1 expressed his view everyone jumped on him,he maybe right he maybe wrong but it's lets all stick together because we are friend's,did he really deserve a fuck off back to thissis etc,will Arriba be banned now for saying he should't be banned.

You assume everyone who comes on here and has a different opinion are from thissis,some people on thissis are pretty decent people and posts some decent stuff (forum not adver comments)Is this not where most of you lot started,that's what Yeovil Red told me anyway.

By the way im not that good at expressing myself so feel free to pick holes.

In my opinion gasha1 was wrong but that is beside's the point im making here

No doubt I'll get banned now because i've been outspoken.

I started here and only here 8)

There is a massive diffrence. In my opinion Gasha wanted that reaction and got it. Every single person knows fitton is not incompetent Gasha wanted to provoke that reaction.

This bollocks that if you disagree you get banned is childish, look at Bart has he been banned?  

As for jumping down peoples throats that will happen when you open a thread like Gash did

 Nah you should get banned for sticking apostrophes in plurals...even Ken Bate's

I can't say i know bart,and have not seen any of his post's,if gasha was after a reaction then i suppose that's a fair enough comment,but how can you tell he was trying to stir thing's up,did i miss something that gave it away.

English never a good subject for me sorry.

and yet you're the biggest mong on here,strange that. ;)

sometimes things need to be moderated,if people dont like i suggest they fuck off.

Merry Christmas x x

Thanks Oevil 8)

Merry christmas to you to mate!

The claims of wanting debate but not actually responding to any. The fact he seemed more interested in the angry responses than the constructive ones show which sort he was hoping to get. Consistently falling back on arguments that nobody's disagreed with, nobody said Fitton was above criticism. Fuck all attempts to back up his own opinions on the current regime and how any mistakes add up incompetency, "not fit to run a football club", etc.

If you're going to start a "controversial" thread, with the intent of actually having a proper discussion, do you not think it makes sense to back up where your coming from and not just rely on silly hyperbolic comments and dismissive blahblahblahblahblahblahs? Unless you're just on the wind up, which this dude clearly was.

Despite what some of the posts may suggest, very few people get banned.

To be honest it was his inability to use the fucking quote button as much as anything else.

I'd ban loads of people if I were in charge

And to be fair to FB he's not banned me and I've called him all sorts

That was really starting to get my goat as well.

I would ban you Colin.

You are a cunt

Ok ben i guess with you being a mod you tend to see a lot more of this kind of thing than most of us,So i appologise if i jumped in like a bull in a china shop. 

That Gasha chap hasn't been banned anyway has he?

He's just had a bunch of people disagree with him but has he been banned or even censored in any way?

I must admit that I think that a few of the responses where a tad harsh, he was just asking a question after all and although personally I do not think that AF is incompetent it is easy to see how some others may see why.

Also "incompetent" is a bad choice of word, but we all know what he meant. Maybe gasha will word his question(s) better next time.

This is true, this is true

 Think he's come back in a slightly different from...a determined troll

Don't apologise to that cunt.

On one hand he sounded like a bit of a teacher so ban him,  on the other hand i love a bit of gash so horses for courses.

I think the ban was a little harsh, okay so the thread wasn't the best, but his wasn't being offensive in any way.

Easy tigers.

According to his profile he is just 'offline', which does not necessarily mean that he is banned at all.

He is banned.

Yeah he got banned by the forum nazi!!

(that is most definitely a ;-) Ben - honest).

At the risk of being banned myself, if he has been banned that is plain wrong unless he has gone OTT, which he hasn't.
I was censored, a year ago for saying waht I felt about Diamandis, & that was correct, as I probably did cross the line in expressing my views on that particular entity.

Any ways, I think the crucial point was made on about page 4 of this thread. The AF consortium have more to lose financially than any of us if things go tits up on the fiekl, & I'm sure they are welll aware of it.
So I trust AF to get it right. He has over 5,000,000 reasons too.

Seriously Fuck off.

I will ban the next person who goes on about the risk of being banned themselves.

good autority shown there, i say ban everyone except me and u ben and we can just post to each other, i cant wait x

Anger management is next weeks course. Hold steady.

Ooooh, get her!!

There seems to be a TEF political coo in process.

[url width=106 height=118]http://tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:4lY4XM4BBdgQ0M:http://www.bird-evictors.com/Bird_control/images/pigeon.gif[/url]

Mind the pigeons........

3 seconds late.

and mine had a picture!

[url width=35 height=25]http://i259.photobucket.com/albums/hh288/krispos42/DU/hitlersmiley.gif[/url]

Wir müssen die mongsen ausrotten

[url width=42 height=18]http://i280.photobucket.com/albums/kk189/PeaceInThyme/DalekSmile.gif[/url]

Exterminate, exterminate.

Ha, good work with the smileys Batch. Ben can you automagic it so that always appears as the icon next to any of Ironside's posts? Go on, I dare you

Hi Pauld just tried to call you ignoring me again r u.

Yup. Next? :)

Is Pauld Incompetent?

Youre a real busy house hsband arent you UNDER & THUMB spring 2 mind

Or posts the latest headline from the Daily Mail site. More for my personal amusement than to pick on the guy,

Haha.

Paul, I never had you down for the type.

There's a divot in my head the rain collects in, from the thumb groove. To be fair though she's bigger and scarier than I am (not a high bar, granted) :)

Nor did I mate. You just wait, it may be all going out when you want and the like now, but she'll have you learning how to use that hoover before you know it

Nothing wrong with a bit of House husbandry(good word)....ime peeling sprouts right now.

yeah pauld is impotent

And typing at the same time? Wow, that's multitasking!

You didn't enjoy it then? Was he a bit of a flop?

You've misspelled omnipotent there :)

Sorry i lied....but i did some earlier.

Bah, I'd fucking split him and he knows it.

Even I don't peel sprouts. That's taking new manness too far!

You wish.