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Author Topic: Community Ownership Bid?  (Read 2672 times)
Bogus Dave
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« Reply #30 on: Thursday, February 11, 2021, 13:35:49 »

Working pretty well at Exeter, and that's been in Trust ownership a while. AFC Wimbledon had their club stolen out from under them and not only fought their way back up into the League but are now just about to pick up the keys to their new ground. You might not like their way of doing things, but it's working and it's a shit load more stable than we are. Not to mention most of the Bundesliga.

There are, of course, also some disastrous counter-examples, such as Stockport and Notts County.

Exeter have no football club around them for miles and are the definition of a league two club. Wimbledon have peaked at mid table league one. I think both show the limitations of the approach

Iím not denying that fan ownership can steady the ship, but it canít push that ship forward
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michael
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« Reply #31 on: Thursday, February 11, 2021, 13:47:50 »

The main problem with fan ownership is not the fan ownership itself, but the dire state of English football finances outside of the Premier League. And they have become dramatically dire-r over the past 12 months.
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pauld
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« Reply #32 on: Thursday, February 11, 2021, 14:19:43 »

Exeter have no football club around them for miles and are the definition of a league two club. Wimbledon have peaked at mid table league one. I think both show the limitations of the approach

Iím not denying that fan ownership can steady the ship, but it canít push that ship forward
Possibly so, but I was responding to your post saying "case studies" show it can't work long term, I think these are two examples where it has. Whether they are models we would wish to adopt is another matter, as I said.
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pauld
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« Reply #33 on: Thursday, February 11, 2021, 14:21:31 »

The main problem with fan ownership is not the fan ownership itself, but the dire state of English football finances outside of the Premier League. And they have become dramatically dire-r over the past 12 months.
Precisely this. Fan ownership has been the default model in German football for 60 years and has worked well there, but finances in English football are, in the main, a basket case. No ownership model "works" in this environment, most clubs outside the super wealthy top 6 are just lurching from one crisis to the next.
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« Reply #34 on: Thursday, February 11, 2021, 14:56:00 »

The model here doesnít work because unscrupulous owners are in it primarily for what they can get out of it.

High interest loans, taking slices of any lucrative transfer fees, squeeze what they can for as long as they can and then fuck off and bollocks to the consequences.

If clubs actually retained the majority of what income they generated most would trundle along just fine.
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« Reply #35 on: Thursday, February 11, 2021, 15:42:56 »

I don't think there's anyone amongst our fanbase that has the financial capability or experience to make our club competitive at a decent level. We've been shit for years, and that's fine, but I cling on to the hope that one day someone will come in and realise the massive potential a town the size of Swindon has and have a bit of ambition to drive us upwards. I can't see a supporter run club being that vehicle, but I would happily be wrong on this front.

It's strange as well but when the Trust (I think?) said about putting a roof on the bank a few years ago, for me that was a backwards step (and I say this as a fan of the Trust and the work they do). The Stratton Bank doesn't need polish, it needs to be ripped down and rebuilt. Like most of the club!
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« Reply #36 on: Thursday, February 11, 2021, 16:28:53 »

I cling on to the hope that one day someone will come in and realise the massive potential a town the size of Swindon has and have a bit of ambition to drive us upwards.

I think we had that opportunity with Black, but in traditional Swindon style it went to shite.
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JBZ
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« Reply #37 on: Thursday, February 11, 2021, 16:52:33 »

The problem is that many clubs also offer massive potential
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« Reply #38 on: Thursday, February 11, 2021, 16:55:49 »

The model here doesnít work because unscrupulous owners are in it primarily for what they can get out of it.

High interest loans, taking slices of any lucrative transfer fees, squeeze what they can for as long as they can and then fuck off and bollocks to the consequences.

If clubs actually retained the majority of what income they generated most would trundle along just fine.
A case in point being Burnley - until recently a bit of an outlier as a well-run lower Premiership club that was sustainable on the income it generated, in fact even regularly generated a reasonable profit that was reinvested in the club and had cash in the bank. Then new "investors" come along with a highly leveraged takeover, use the club's own money to finance that takeover and take it from having £50m in the bank to being £90m in debt, purely to finance their takeover. While this kind of shit is allowed by the authorities, clubs are always going to be tempting targets for speculators and asset strippers
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« Reply #39 on: Thursday, February 11, 2021, 17:49:11 »

Owning a football club is very much like owning a boat.
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« Reply #40 on: Thursday, February 11, 2021, 17:53:27 »

The problem is that many clubs also offer massive potential

True. But Swindon is in a good location, in a town with a huge population that has brought out decent numbers when doing well.
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« Reply #41 on: Thursday, February 11, 2021, 18:42:42 »

Quote from: pauld
Then new "investors" come along with a highly leveraged takeover, use the club's own money to finance that takeover and take it from having £50m in the bank to being £90m in debt, purely to finance their takeover.

While this kind of shit is allowed by the authorities, clubs are always going to be tempting targets for speculators and asset strippers

But the problem is it's allowed in general business. I'm not sure legally where the powers that be stand legally in restricting that.
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« Reply #42 on: Thursday, February 11, 2021, 19:16:33 »

But the problem is it's allowed in general business. I'm not sure legally where the powers that be stand legally in restricting that.
There are other constraints on trade that don't apply in general business e.g. transfer windows, Owners and Directors Test, Salary Cost Management Protocol etc etc. Include it as part of Onwers and Directors' Test - "Have you got proof of funding?" "Can you put down a deposit for two years worth of funding?" "Is that your own/external money?". Easy enough if they want to. But they don't because both the Premier League and the Football League are owners' clubs, the owners make the rules so they consider the best interests of owners, not clubs.
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