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Author Topic: How do you think we are shaping up?  (Read 8954 times)
RedRag


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« Reply #15 on: Wednesday, September 12, 2018, 20:49:44 »

Like others, I am enjoying the football after years of pointless and risky keepball and last year's anti-football where the objective seemed to be to kick the ball as far and as high as possible.  In fact I had feared the clean sheet mentality Brown had trailed last year might not be all that watchable.  You certainly couldn't blame Brown for failing to deliver clean sheets with last year's comedy caper Keepers.   Now we have two "first choice" keepers in Vigs and McCormick, an abundance of combinations to set up in midfield and Adebayo rather than Norris up front.  Really, what is not to like?  

 Hmmm Well just possibly the defence which doesn't reassure in terms of depth and where the experience available doesn't really adequately complement the youthful promise.  That doesn't shout "automatic" at me for sure but Nelson and Woolfenden are decent young additions and Taylor on the fringes is certainly a motivator.
« Last Edit: Wednesday, September 12, 2018, 20:55:00 by RedRag » Logged
RobertT


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« Reply #16 on: Wednesday, September 12, 2018, 20:49:53 »

Core/Spine - You mean like having Adebayo on the bench recently, or Woolfenden having only started 1 league game, or Alzate being swapped out at times?  Didn't you also suggest he was probably not going to be much of a force for us anyway, given he'd got Leyton Orient relegated several divisions in one month or something like that?  They are either important, or not important, not sure which you think.

The question is how are we shaping up, and using previous years as a comparison, one of which is last year.  Evidence, in the form of data, is so far suggesting quite well.

Yes, I think a season similar to the Cooper one would be good.  I'd hope we could surpass the conclusion, but I am not sure.  On what I have seen so far, not making the play offs would be a failure, and yes, Brown should be concerned about his job if that did come to pass.  The available evidence suggests otherwise, so far.  We are in good form, we have got some tough results, we have improved in some areas of weakness, we are not the best club in the division, we have some weaknesses that could still hamper us and we might have to replace some loans if the worst happens, but we probably would do that based on previous transfer windows.
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ferret


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« Reply #17 on: Wednesday, September 12, 2018, 20:51:44 »

But PdC then used the  money to give Wes a 2 and a half year deal and Palace an undisclosed fee, after the 3 month loan deal expired.

That doesnít change the point that signing a Ďyoung kidí on loan, and having faith in him, was a very successful move. If we hadnít done so, we would never have signed him permanently.
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Reg Smeeton
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« Reply #18 on: Wednesday, September 12, 2018, 21:07:24 »

Core/Spine - You mean like having Adebayo on the bench recently, or Woolfenden having only started 1 league game, or Alzate being swapped out at times?  Didn't you also suggest he was probably not going to be much of a force for us anyway, given he'd got Leyton Orient relegated several divisions in one month or something like that?  They are either important, or not important, not sure which you think.

The question is how are we shaping up, and using previous years as a comparison, one of which is last year.  Evidence, in the form of data, is so far suggesting quite well.

Yes, I think a season similar to the Cooper one would be good.  I'd hope we could surpass the conclusion, but I am not sure.  On what I have seen so far, not making the play offs would be a failure, and yes, Brown should be concerned about his job if that did come to pass.  The available evidence suggests otherwise, so far.  We are in good form, we have got some tough results, we have improved in some areas of weakness, we are not the best club in the division, we have some weaknesses that could still hamper us and we might have to replace some loans if the worst happens, but we probably would do that based on previous transfer windows.

What I said about Alzate is he is a talent, but now needs to work on the application of that talent.  This is a difficult job in his position, you only need to see how the England side can't find a quality playmaker. However it's not the midfield which could be a problem.

You and others may be happy with loan kids in key positions and it is what it is, but I'd have rather seen some experience in there.  I've pointed out that it was to be expected that PB would get in a couple of loan kids, as he waited to see how Lancashire and Conroy would rock up, but had hoped we might get another target man type.



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Reg Smeeton
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« Reply #19 on: Wednesday, September 12, 2018, 21:17:39 »

That doesnít change the point that signing a Ďyoung kidí on loan, and having faith in him, was a very successful move. If we hadnít done so, we would never have signed him permanently.

Of course, judicious use of the loan system can be advantageous.  For instance Lou Macari after a dodgy start 85/86 needed a LB, and so got in Nicky Coleman from Millwall, he took a good pen.  Lou tried to sign him to no avail, but he was our only loan that record Div 4 season.
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ferret


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« Reply #20 on: Wednesday, September 12, 2018, 21:37:21 »

Of course, judicious use of the loan system can be advantageous.  For instance Lou Macari after a dodgy start 85/86 needed a LB, and so got in Nicky Coleman from Millwall, he took a good pen.  Lou tried to sign him to no avail, but he was our only loan that record Div 4 season.

You donít need me to tell you that times have changed somewhat over the last 33 years. For parts of the 80s, clubs were only allowed to loan keepers.
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bamboonoshoe


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« Reply #21 on: Wednesday, September 12, 2018, 23:16:06 »

I was looking at the start made this season under PB compared with the Championship winning sides in this division under PdC and Macari, also added Flitcroft last season by way of comparison.

PB - W3 D3 L1 GF12 GA12 - 12 points - 7th place
h 3-2 w
a 1-4 l
h 3-2 w
a 2-2 d
a 1-1 d
h 1-1 d
a 1-0 w

PdC - W3 D0 L4 GF10 GA8 - 9 points - 13th place
h 3-0 w
a 0-1 l
a 0-1 l
h 1-2 l
a 1-2 l
h 3-2 w
h 2-0 w

Macari - W2 D1 L4 F6 A13 - 7 points - 20th place
h 0-1 l
a 1-4 l
h 2-1 w
a 0-0 d
h 3-2 w
a 0-3 l
a 0-2 l

Flitcroft - W3 D1 L3 F8 A10 - 10 points 14th place
a 2-1 w
h 1-1 d
a 1-0 w
h 0-3 l
h 1-4 l
a 3-0 w
a 0-1 l

A fairly solid start and long may it continue.

What stands out there for me and it may just be coincidence but the difference between the League winning/Promoted seasons and the DF season is strikingly obvious...Home form. Even on the Macari and PdC most their points in those early games came from Home tie wins.
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DV Canio
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« Reply #22 on: Thursday, September 13, 2018, 07:29:25 »

Not been to a game in over 5 years now, so not sure how valid my opinion will be...

Better squad in my opinion. Weíve had various injuries and suspensions already but at no point has players going out / coming in effected the quality of our starting XI.

Almost like England over the summer there has been a clear shift in attitude towards a more determined, gutsy attitude with increased application.

The keeper situation is so much better. A position so underrated in how important it is.
Defence still looks a bit shakey but the two loans have showed promise.
Midfield looks decent
Think Adebayo is a talent and will get us 15 goals. Not sure about our depth up top. Not sure Richards will still be up to it. Despite signing a year ago I still donít feel we know much / enough about Woolrey. Stealing a Ďsoundbiteí but he could be like a new signing.

Think itíll be a top 8 finish.



Also, to an extent I see Regs point about having loan players being key members of the squad as itís only a short term fix (unless we actually sign them)
Iíd much rather have our own players so we donít have to continually fill gaps.

However, now a days with almost all footballers on a 1 or 2 year deals the days of Ďkeeping a squad togetherí is an archaic, redundant concept.
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Quagmire


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« Reply #23 on: Thursday, September 13, 2018, 07:42:51 »

When will you come back DV?
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DV Canio
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« Reply #24 on: Thursday, September 13, 2018, 07:50:07 »

When will you come back DV?

Depending on circumstances one of the 4 below options

1. Never
2. When we show a bit of ambition*
3. When Iím mega rich and buy the club
4. If my son wants to go


* donít want to derail the thread but will touch upon option 2.
Wonít say much about Power (and in truth I donít have much to say about him anyway) weíve for various reasons turned into one of those clubs who just make up the numbers. Not good to enough to progress up the leagues, not bad enough to slide down them.
As a football fan I canít think of anything worse than supporting a middle of the road nothing team. For example Oldham, until last season basically made up the numbers in L1 for about 20 years with one play off finish in 03 (I think) such a boring, pointless existence.
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Reg Smeeton
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« Reply #25 on: Thursday, September 13, 2018, 08:17:48 »

You donít need me to tell you that times have changed somewhat over the last 33 years. For parts of the 80s, clubs were only allowed to loan keepers.

Loans started in the early 70's our first being Paull Walker from Wolves he got 2 starts and 3 sub appearances. Right from the off a manager could get in a decent loan or a shit loan, which still holds true today. Over the 45 years of their use, far more have been miss than hit.

You mention PdC and Wes, however he did sign  a further 9..... including some right stumers, Daniel Boateng, Jonathan Tehoue, Ahmed Abdulla, Christian Montano, Ronan Murray.... others like Jake Jervis and Liam Ridehalgh were semi OK, and I think we'd have all been happy to have signed John Bostock and Lee Holmes permanently.
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RedRag


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« Reply #26 on: Thursday, September 13, 2018, 08:24:09 »

Excellent view on how we are shaping up, DV

I accept that, in the real world, there are many better ways to spend a Saturday afternoon than at the County Ground.

However, even if we are showing no real ambition as a club, you have noted that there is a more determined, gutsy attitude with increased application. And that there is some talent.

Try coming along.
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RedRag


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« Reply #27 on: Thursday, September 13, 2018, 08:26:50 »

Loans started in the early 70's our first being Paull Walker from Wolves he got 2 starts and 3 sub appearances. Right from the off a manager could get in a decent loan or a shit loan, which still holds true today. Over the 45 years of their use, far more have been miss than hit.

You mention PdC and Wes, however he did sign  a further 9..... including some right stumers, Daniel Boateng, Jonathan Tehoue, Ahmed Abdulla, Christian Montano, Ronan Murray.... others like Jake Jervis and Liam Ridehalgh were semi OK, and I think we'd have all been happy to have signed John Bostock and Lee Holmes permanently.
For all the variable quality and frequency of PDC's signings, the three points certainly used to come in on time.
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The Artist Formerly Known as Audrey


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« Reply #28 on: Thursday, September 13, 2018, 08:31:35 »

I thought we were going to try and sign Adebayo on a perm in January a la Anderson.

Be a bit of a coup, that. Sometime down the line heís going to make big bucks.
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Reg Smeeton
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« Reply #29 on: Thursday, September 13, 2018, 08:31:57 »

Excellent view on how we are shaping up, DV

I accept that, in the real world, there are many better ways to spend a Saturday afternoon than at the County Ground.

However, even if we are showing no real ambition as a club, you have noted that there is a more determined, gutsy attitude with increased application. And that there is some talent.

Try coming along.


We've always been an essentially Div 3 side, with the occasional decent spell to get up to Div 2, or some sort of cup run to raise the profile.  That goes back to 1920 and the formation of Div 3.  What we want to avoid is getting stuck in Div 4,  or worse.... Power inherited a Div 3 club, and needs to get uis back there asap.
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