Paris - terrorist attack

[Ells]

There are too many economic migrants heading to Croatia which annoys you.. So you're going to move there? That doesn't sound like it's going to ease your frustrations Dossy.

[Ironside]

There are too many economic migrants heading to Croatia which annoys you.. So you're going to move there? That doesn't sound like it's going to ease your frustrations Dossy.

The 'economic' migrants are just passing through on their way to Western Europe though. They won't stay in Croatia and drag it down.

[Ironside]

Here we go again.

Terrorists have taken 170 people hostage in the Radison Hotel in Bamako, Mali's capital.

Large number of these are French nationals - Mali being a former French colony

Just remember that whatever they do has absolutely NOTHING to do with Islam and they're not 'REAL MUSLIMS'.

It's not as if a single one of them has been born into an Islamic country and been brought up within a society that is culturally Islamic.

It's not as if a single one has been to a Mosque or a Madras.

It's not as if a single one identifies themself as 'Muslim'

It's not as if a single one claims to be acting in the name of 'Allah'

It's not as if a single one believes Sharia law is the only law

It's not as if a single one wants to create an Islamic 'Caliphate'

It's not as if a single one decided to kill innocent people of every and all faiths, and none, based on the teachings of Islam.

I could go on but what pisses me off a lot at the moment is all the limp-wristed weaklings in the media, along with politicians, repeating and giving platforms to this lie.

They are Muslim.
They are acting on their interpretation of the Koran.
They want to destroy all non-Muslims or at the very least convert them.
They don't believe in anything that isn't in that bloodied book.

It is not only a problem with Muslims but it is also an Islamic problem.

Muslims need to accept that whether they like it or not, the likes of IS and others are acting in the name of their religion. They may not agree with them which is great, but unfortunately they're not making the running and attracting the headlines. Therefore, they need to pick a team and nail their colours to the mast, so to speak, and do it once and for all, or fuck off.

Islam itself, as a religion, isn't that different from all the Abrahamic religions. It has positive and negative messages throughout. Unfortunately, you currently have the west that went through the enlightenment and the Middle East that is at least a thousand years behind the modern world.

[Tails]

Christianity has been similarly barbaric, it's just older than Islam and thankfully became slightly more civilized as time went on.

They may identify themselves at Muslims, but most Muslims don't want anything to do with them. Not to mention the fact they've killed more Muslims than any other faith. The koran has it's flaws but for the most part it does command respect of the older religious texts. It forbids killing of innocents too (although what it states as innocent is probably a bit different to what most people would consider innocent..)

[Ironside]

Christianity has been similarly barbaric, it's just older than Islam and thankfully became slightly more civilized as time went on.

They may identify themselves at Muslims, but most Muslims don't want anything to do with them. Not to mention the fact they've killed more Muslims than any other faith. The koran has it's flaws but for the most part it does command respect of the older religious texts. It forbids killing of innocents too (although what it states as innocent is probably a bit different to what most people would consider innocent..)

I do not disagree with that.

But they ARE Muslims. They are acting on the teachings of the Koran.

Why do the Politicians and Media deny that fact?

It doesn't help anyone, least of all Muslims, to deny it.

[Flashheart]

It forbids killing of innocents too (although what it states as innocent is probably a bit different to what most people would consider innocent..)

And therein lies the rub:

Qur'an (4:89) - "They wish that you should disbelieve as they disbelieve, and then you would be equal; therefore take not to yourselves friends of them, until they emigrate in the way of God; then, if they turn their backs, take them, and slay them wherever you find them; take not to yourselves any one of them as friend or helper."

The Quran itself explicitly tells it's followers to kill non-believers, (slay them wherever you find them) leaves little room for interpretation.

Thankfully, though, the majority make excuses for (or are unaware of) such passages and just focus on the 'good' stuff. In much the same way that you'll not likely find Christians taking their mischievous sons to the city gates to be killed. I'm all for helping the refugees and what not and hold no ill-feeling toward Muslims in general. It is irksome, however, when people say things like the extremists 'are not true Muslim', because the statement is demonstrably false. They are following what the Muslim holy book says--- directly, literally.

[Flashheart]

Oh, and much of the reason they kill other Muslims is because they claim that the others are not true Muslims.

[pauld]

Those who want to blame "Islam" or "Muslims" for the psychotic terrorists, that's fine as long as they're prepared to take their share of responsibility for the likes of Breivik, the KKK, et al, all of whom claim to be doing their reprehensible acts in the name of Christian Western civilization. Ridiculous smears.

[Flashheart]

Islam is at least part of the problem though Paul. Not entirely, but at least part. People are quick to say Islam is good because of the good things it's good followers do, but wish to absolve it of all blame for the bad things that its bad followers do. It seems OK to post a verse saying "don't kill people" and say "look, it's all good". So why is the same not said about the bad stuff? It comes from the same bleedin' book.

[Flashheart]

This guy explains it better then I can: http://imgur.com/gallery/aFxN4ut

[Tails]

Those who want to blame "Islam" or "Muslims" for the psychotic terrorists, that's fine as long as they're prepared to take their share of responsibility for the likes of Breivik, the KKK, et al, all of whom claim to be doing their reprehensible acts in the name of Christian Western civilization. Ridiculous smears.

I wouldn't have much problem admitting that most, if not all, monotheistic religions are in some way culpable for a variety of atrocities caused since they first began. Religion brings comfort to people in different ways, some do genuinely believe they have to act in a violently aggressive way to get to heaven. But I also think it's true that some people will cling on to anything to justify their acts. A world without religion would probably be a lot more peaceful... But people would still kill each other.

Christopher Hitchens used to lay out a (slightly ambiguous, admittedly) challenge in his debates with many different religious scholars...

"Name one ethical statement made, or one ethical action performed, by a believer that could not have been uttered or done by a nonbeliever.
 The second challenge. Can anyone think of a wicked statement made, or an evil action performed, precisely because of religious faith?"

Don't think he ever received a satisfactory answer.

[Ironside]

Those who want to blame "Islam" or "Muslims" for the psychotic terrorists, that's fine as long as they're prepared to take their share of responsibility for the likes of Breivik, the KKK, et al, all of whom claim to be doing their reprehensible acts in the name of Christian Western civilization. Ridiculous smears.

Conflation of the intellectually retarded.

[Flashheart]

 

[Flashheart]

One that that irks me about the debate is that some might choose to affiliate me with certain others in this thread. Fuck that, I'm out.

[Ells]

So the media refer to the terrorists as Muslim. What exactly does that achieve? other than encouraging fuckwits like the EDL to roll around in pork fat and jizz on each other, or whatever it is they do.

Those saying the perpetrators are not representative of Islam doesn't mean they're shirking any possible connections.