Pitch rotation......

[Batch]

Well I guess this is positive news.

I know I am going to sound negative, but if St M have bailed, is this an initiative by our own board, or is a new developer waiting in the wings. I think St Mowden had bigger plans to include housing so I can see where their revenue ideas came from. Any idea what else besides a new stadium we are proposing in order to make £££?

Hope it comes off, from what has been said it HAS to.

[TalkTalk]

Interesting to see the New Swindon Company get a mention.  Any speculation as to what sort of involvement they might have?  Certainly sits within the scope of their mission statement.

“We are trying to ascertain if the ideas financially stack up and if it is legally possible for the council to do what they want us to do,”

Presuming ‘they’ is referring to the club I wonder what exactly the club are looking for from the council.  The financial aspect surely points to a degree of investment, possibly linking back to the New Swindon Company?   The legal side I’d hazard a guess may be something to do with ownership of the site.  If the council are going to relinquish control of the site, which they own in any sort of capacity then they would have to justify it to be in the interest of the tax payer.

Maybe putting two and two together but making a tentative presumption I’d say that the club have kicked St Mowden into touch.  That may well be linked in with the 750k invested by SSW a few weeks ago after he had claimed that he would not pump any more money into the club.  That cash would then be used to pay back the loan from  St Mowden.  

Phew, there's a lot in here, Dazzza.  :shock:

See if I can shine a bit of light on anything...

It may be in their Mission Statement , but The New Swindon Company's remit does not stretch as far as the County Ground. It doesn't even cover Broad Street/Manchester Road or anywhere East of the Hartwell Ford site on Whale Bridge roundabout.  This is part of their Mem and Arts in terms of their brief, so it's kinda unlikely that they are going to have any stake in the County Ground redevelopment. Having said that, there are pressures from other organisations in the town to get them to expand their sphere of influence. Like getting the university campus back into their area which is partly why they got their funding in the first place. The club are certainly another legitimate lobbying group. As are the Trust, SBC etc.

Realistically, there will not be any funding from either the NSC or Swindon Borough Council. NSC are struggling to get money out of their formal partner organisations like English Partnerships to buy more plots in the town centre (like the old cop shop, Fleming Way Post Office etc). SBC are just plain fucking broke anyway. They would love to sell off the CG site to another landlord/developer because flogging off the town's assets is what they do best and also props up the budget. So I think you are right about the legal side of things - as in they can only sell of the plot at market value and have to check how much that should be.

I also think that you are definitely right about St Modwen. They're too busy licking their lips over the Longbridge site to give a monkey's about the trivial Swindon investment. And it wasn't a £750k loan by the way - they bought the debenture on the club's assets, which I also assume is what SSW has just bought back. That still leaves St M holding some of his personal property as a guarantee though If my balance sheet brain is still functioning correctly.

Please try writing shorter posts in future and stop thinking so much. You hurt my head.

[Dazzza]

Cheers, TalkTalk cleared a few things up.

I did recall Mark Devlin on the BBC stating that the club wouldn't have to pay a penny back on the money from St Modwen if the Shaw site went belly up.

I suppose purchasing the debenture against the clubs assets is just as good as, mind.

Do you still think we are looking at one of the two developers reported to be 'waiting in the wings' a few months back to cough up the cash?

I think the bowl at Shaw was budgeted at about the 20 million mark.  Clearly there must be some big money involved if it is to be funded by a development company even with the reduced area for housing and commercial development with the CG remaining on site.

[TalkTalk]

Don't know about developers waiting in the wings Dazzza, but it definitely won't be Swindon Borough Council stumping up any dosh, as I mentioned above:

Swindon Advertiser

Date Published: Tuesday 16 August 2005

Backer needed for ground plan

by Tom Morton

THE man holding Swindon Council's purse strings says he cannot see the County Ground being rebuilt unless Swindon finds a major backer.

Coun Nick Martin (Con, Shaw and Nine Elms) is one of the cabinet members of Swindon Council who has seen the plans, which were reported in Saturday's Advertiser.

However, although he cannot disclose what is in the report, he says that any decision to redevelop the County Ground would have to be taken carefully as it would be the council or the club that would have to fund the improvements.

Other sources have suggested that the new plans include building houses on the green land surrounding the County Ground ­ and are similar to plans revealed at the end of last year.

The official line is that the council is examining the viability and legality of the plans, and until that has been assessed only a limited number of people in the council's cabinet and at the football club will see the plans.

Coun Martin said he is a supporter of Swindon Town ­ and wants the team to do well.

But he said: "We have got many responsibilities in the borough such as schools and the central library.

"To my knowledge there is no suggestion that the club no major backer or £20m to spend at the moment, and the council has no policy to do so at this juncture."

In order for the club to fund an improved stadium money would need to be raised. This could come from a backer ­ such as the council or a wealthy third party, as has happened in Reading with John Madejski. The alternative would be for the council and the club to sell off their assets, which could include the land surrounding the County Ground, to developers, who could build houses, a hotel, or other complex.

But Coun Martin also said that, in theory, he would find it hard to be able to justify selling off land. He said: "We could not sell the land off for sports pitch value and then give planning approval for houses." The council has been stung by plans for new stadiums before, and Coun Martin said that developers have often broached the subject of a land deal involving the club.

Town chief executive Sandy Gray has said that she cannot see any stumbling blocks to the development.

The club has said in the past that finding a new home or redeveloping the County Ground is crucial to its survival.

[McLovin]

Why is our council never going to actually spend money on helping the club, when in other areas they seem to get right behind stadium plans etc.  Are they really that broke, or do they just have no real interest?

[pauld]

Why is our council never going to actually spend money on helping the club, when in other areas they seem to get right behind stadium plans etc.  Are they really that broke, or do they just have no real interest?

Both. But to be fair when we've got one of the worst social services departments in the country, they're slashing 10 million of the services budget, and closing schools down left right and centre, it's be pretty hard for them to justify putting 20 million into a private business. If Nick Martin's comments accurately reflect what the club are proposing, then the club need to rethink them slightly - with an element of "community ownership" the whole thing becomes a much more viable proposition as then the council would not be giving money/assets to a private business but supporting a local community facility.

[McLovin]

I guess that makes a bit of sense.

Hopefully there is a nice backer waiting in the wings for planning permission and approval to be given?  Although i seriously doubt it.

[Reg Smeeton]

Reading Martin's statement that, is all you need to do to know this will never happen.

  We also know that the Board have stated, in effect, the club in its present form will cease to be if that is the case.

  I would like to see the Trust try and enter into some kind of talks with the Board, if they haven't already done so, on what may happen, when the Councillors like Martin fire this into touch.

[Asher]

I can honestly see swindon town being formed into swindon supermarine in a few years time.  Marine have some large backers now and I think are only 4/5 divisions from us?

[Reg Smeeton]

I can honestly see swindon town being formed into swindon supermarine in a few years time.  Marine have some large backers now and I think are only 4/5 divisions from us?

  I think its a possibility, but I'd rather see the option of theclub being run by the Trust as is now the case at a number of clubs....

  This may require an act of good wiil from SSW,  and the finding of 1 mill for the CVA......so don't ask me how either of these events is likely to happen, just I'd rather see it than moving out to Hunt's Copse.

[pauld]

Reading Martin's statement that, is all you need to do to know this will never happen.

  We also know that the Board have stated, in effect, the club in its present form will cease to be if that is the case.

  I would like to see the Trust try and enter into some kind of talks with the Board, if they haven't already done so, on what may happen, when the Councillors like Martin fire this into touch.

We are Reg. And we're also doing a lot of "background" work in terms of talking to councillors (of all parties) and other interested groups to try and establish where the contentious areas are, and what can be done to overcome them (if anything) so that hopefully we can act as a bridge between all relevant parties to modify the proposals so they are acceptable to all. Of course, we're not miracle workers - all we can do is try and find reasonable compromises - if either side won't budge or the proposals just don't stack up, then we can't magic a solution, but we're doing our best to avoid the "illogical meeting the immovable" situation we had over Shaw.

[JTomlinson]

I said in the paper these plans were: exciting, complicated and challenging...

Exciting - 20 000 all seater stadium, plus hotel, conference facilities - excellent!  Come on Swindon!

Complicated - in a nutshell, if STFC had Jack Walker, things would be a lot easier.  For the scheme to work, so many things will have to fall into place.  Firstly the finance needs to be raised (STFC as we all know, have limited funds themselves), complicated legal issues need to be dealt with (ie, with the ownership of the land and the covenant etc).

Challenging - presuming the finance can be sorted, local residents, the athletics, cricket clubs etc all need to be on board.

[Asher]

so in a nutshell councillor, its not gonna happen?

[McLovin]

So basically, there's very little chance of this being a success?  

[Asher]

How much would it cost in reality to buy out the clubs current directors and more importantly the debts...?

Reg may know this if he has the accounts to hand, ive got mine somewhere?