Public sector pensions strike?

[Summerof69]

You forgot to add the Gold Reserves, which were sold off at a prcie that turned out to be rock bottom.

Oh to have some gold reserves now.

Gordon Brown sold off the gold at an average of $295 an ounce. Gold is now traded at over 4 times that price. Apparently in the City that sale is known as 'Brown's Bottom'.

[janaage]

Brown sold UK gold reserves in late 90's, when gold was about the same price at it was in the late 70's, what a master stroke.  I was at a fund managers meeting recently and the only credit they gave Brown was he stood against Blair and would not allow him to take us into the Euro.

http://goldprice.org/30-year-gold-price-history.html

[Bedford Red]

You've not noticed the huge cutting of jobs in the public sector then?  I'm receiving my second "at risk of redundancy" letter in two years on the 23rd December.  If I survive this time (I didn't last time - had to find another job which I was lucky to do) I'll be done for next year.  I'm not complaining, but I do think the public v private sector argument is often built on myths, misunderstandings and a touch of ignorance - on both sides.

I'm the same, already had my letter and i find out on Dec 28th if i still have a job or not, happy xmas!

And after working 7 years in the public sector (previous 19 in private and had redundancy before to deal with) i can't see if i last this year i will next either...

[Ardiles]

You've not noticed the huge cutting of jobs in the public sector then?  I'm receiving my second "at risk of redundancy" letter in two years on the 23rd December.  If I survive this time (I didn't last time - had to find another job which I was lucky to do) I'll be done for next year.  I'm not complaining, but I do think the public v private sector argument is often built on myths, misunderstandings and a touch of ignorance - on both sides.

I'm the same, already had my letter and i find out on Dec 28th if i still have a job or not, happy xmas!

And after working 7 years in the public sector (previous 19 in private and had redundancy before to deal with) i can't see if i last this year i will next either...

Good luck fellas.

[jonny72]

Am I the only one that finds it strange that the Unions are silent over redundancies yet are happy to call an all out strike when changes are planned to pension schemes? Haven't heard single person in the media mention the redundancies.

[chalkies_shorts]

Being a leftie, I'm getting pretty fucked off with the Union bashing - public v private bollocks. The bottom line is that the workers on the front line are cannon fodder as they were in wartime. A strike or work to rule are the only weapons in the armoury. If the bosses went on strike for a day or so, what the fuck would happen - nothing. How many times have management teams been on team build days, weeks away and the business still runs OK.
If the working class stuck together we'd be OK but the bastards know that as soon as we breed or take on commitments they've got us by the short and curlies.
 

[Baggins]

Being a leftie, I'm getting pretty fucked off with the Union bashing - public v private bollocks. The bottom line is that the workers on the front line are cannon fodder as they were in wartime. A strike or work to rule are the only weapons in the armoury. If the bosses went on strike for a day or so, what the fuck would happen - nothing. How many times have management teams been on team build days, weeks away and the business still runs OK.
If the working class stuck together we'd be OK but the bastards know that as soon as we breed or take on commitments they've got us by the short and curlies.
 

Hear fucking hear.

[donkey]

Being a leftie, I'm getting pretty fucked off with the Union bashing - public v private bollocks. The bottom line is that the workers on the front line are cannon fodder as they were in wartime. A strike or work to rule are the only weapons in the armoury. If the bosses went on strike for a day or so, what the fuck would happen - nothing. How many times have management teams been on team build days, weeks away and the business still runs OK.
If the working class stuck together we'd be OK but the bastards know that as soon as we breed or take on commitments they've got us by the short and curlies.
 

And again CS, I agree.

[Arriba]

People slating public sector workers for withdrawing their labour is exactly what the government will love to see. You know,those people surfing the net whilst at work calling public workers lazy and fortunate. Many of those on strike wont have that luxury. They will be wiping pensioners backsides,cleaning the street,serving kids lunches,helping kids learn to read and write,etc,etc,etc. Many on minimum wage or a little above it, made to increase their pension payments,pay for longer,recieve it later,and get less,already seen collegues made redundant and had their hours cut with no chance of a pay rise. Their pensions were not gold plated in the first place. They were peanuts in so many cases.

I like Clarkson but he overstepped the mark. He is a public worker,paid with a stealth tax from television licence holders.
He is a Tory and pals with that cunt Cameron. People have been sacked for alot less in broadcasting(not that i'd sack him though)

The "we're all in it together" is a load of shit too. The weathly aint suffering are they? The millionaire Mp's blurting that shit out to us aint suffering are they? they won't be working until they are 67 will they?

There is money,plenty of it. But the government chose to fleece those who need it whilst those with pots of cash get away scot free.

[Barnard]

Private Sector - Got a job?  = A what??

Just a little bit of pedantry - If that's their answer they aren't 'employed' in the Private Sector.

[Mister Lorenzo]

Something I posted on another forum, which sums up my feelings on the whole debacle pretty well.

Firstly, the us and them thing. In what way do you think going on strike is going to improve that situation?

Secondly, the difference your employer being the government makes is that your tax and NI contributions are basically imaginary. If there was no private sector to tax then there wouldn't be any money to pay you, hence no money to tax you on.

It's not indirect. Every time I pay VAT a chunk of that goes on your salary. And however modest that is, if 50% of the working population are receiving it, on top of pensioners, the unemployed and a million other demands on the public purse, then we run out of money. Like we just have.

You can say what you like about my workplace but since you don't fund it I am quite entitled not to listen. Feel free not to buy my products or services. If your union has never complained about "fat cat" bonus payments in the private sector then they are a strange union indeed.

All contracts are up for negotiation at any time, and if my supplier or client was facing bankruptcy then it would be very much in my interests to keep them alive, if I wished to continue that line of business.

Your pay is not based on personal circumstances, and nor is mine, nor that of anyone else I know.


The fact is no government could afford to pay you if they wanted to. If the UK government was a private company as per the comparisons you have made, then it probably would be bankrupt already and your salary, employment contract and pension would be worth precisely nothing.

As things are going at the moment the money will run out very soon, and the government will be faced with a very real choice of who it is able to pay. So ask yourself in those circumstances who will get paid? Who will get money out of a struggling government that owes money to banks, foreign governments, large private investors, international organisations like the IMF, and er, a few pensioners, unemployed people and public sector workers.

That's right, your salary, and those of your many colleagues will be at the bottom of the pile, not because it's fair, not because it's right or just, or the contract says so, but simply because in that situation politicians will have less to lose, and less to fear by screwing over the small guys.

I'm going to make a slightly arrogant presumption that you are not very politically astute.

You are being manipulated and used as a pawn by people who understand all of the above and yet choose to continue pushing this absurd argument in order to build their own financial and political empires. They get a good salary from your union contributions, and whatever they can take from the public coffers as well. They care nothing for you, or your personal circumstances, and they believe they will only benefit from more people who feel they are underpaid and undervalued, and are ready for a bit of turmoil as a result.

That applies to everyone from your local union rep to Ed Milliband.

Strike if you want. Enjoy your day off. As a VAT man please feel free to take many more. But for Christ's sake don't for one minute think these cynical, scheming, lying toads are on your side because they would see you starving in the street before admit they were wrong and take a hit in their own pockets or egos.

[Batch]

edit: didn't refresh before above post was made. I think that's largely spot on.

On the flip side the good old days of the private sector were over a number of years ago. You used to get decent pensions - at least contributions matched at a %, good severance pay and the like as pretty much standard. Its very much changed now, wages are down and benefits aren't what they were.

So forgive for not being supportive of public sector strikers, because I don't find the governments plans too outrageous.

I agree that when someone reforms your pension in 2007 you have every right to be pissed off that somebody is trying to do it again. And when you have something and somebody tries to take it away you there is bound to be anger. I'd be fully supportive of work to rule and no overtime to put pressure on.But  I will never be supportive of disruption to key services.

Ultimately there will be some kind of reform, because eventually the pensions of public sector workers will become more and more tax payer funded if it doesn't. And that is not on.

As for Clarkson, if people are too thick to take it in the context it was said then the deserve to be offended.

[fatbasher]

Something I posted on another forum, which sums up my feelings on the whole debacle pretty well.

Firstly, the us and them thing. In what way do you think going on strike is going to improve that situation?

Secondly, the difference your employer being the government makes is that your tax and NI contributions are basically imaginary. If there was no private sector to tax then there wouldn't be any money to pay you, hence no money to tax you on.

It's not indirect. Every time I pay VAT a chunk of that goes on your salary. And however modest that is, if 50% of the working population are receiving it, on top of pensioners, the unemployed and a million other demands on the public purse, then we run out of money. Like we just have.

You can say what you like about my workplace but since you don't fund it I am quite entitled not to listen. Feel free not to buy my products or services. If your union has never complained about "fat cat" bonus payments in the private sector then they are a strange union indeed.

All contracts are up for negotiation at any time, and if my supplier or client was facing bankruptcy then it would be very much in my interests to keep them alive, if I wished to continue that line of business.

Your pay is not based on personal circumstances, and nor is mine, nor that of anyone else I know.


The fact is no government could afford to pay you if they wanted to. If the UK government was a private company as per the comparisons you have made, then it probably would be bankrupt already and your salary, employment contract and pension would be worth precisely nothing.

As things are going at the moment the money will run out very soon, and the government will be faced with a very real choice of who it is able to pay. So ask yourself in those circumstances who will get paid? Who will get money out of a struggling government that owes money to banks, foreign governments, large private investors, international organisations like the IMF, and er, a few pensioners, unemployed people and public sector workers.

That's right, your salary, and those of your many colleagues will be at the bottom of the pile, not because it's fair, not because it's right or just, or the contract says so, but simply because in that situation politicians will have less to lose, and less to fear by screwing over the small guys.

I'm going to make a slightly arrogant presumption that you are not very politically astute.

You are being manipulated and used as a pawn by people who understand all of the above and yet choose to continue pushing this absurd argument in order to build their own financial and political empires. They get a good salary from your union contributions, and whatever they can take from the public coffers as well. They care nothing for you, or your personal circumstances, and they believe they will only benefit from more people who feel they are underpaid and undervalued, and are ready for a bit of turmoil as a result.

That applies to everyone from your local union rep to Ed Milliband.

Strike if you want. Enjoy your day off. As a VAT man please feel free to take many more. But for Christ's sake don't for one minute think these cynical, scheming, lying toads are on your side because they would see you starving in the street before admit they were wrong and take a hit in their own pockets or egos.

On the money.

Just like the Labour party in opposition won't or cannot recognise that as the leaders of the country for thirteen years they are ultimately responsible for the shit we're all in, in a word denial. Oh yes, blame the bankers, for what exactly? Raking millions in EARNED BONUSES, whilst raking in Billions in tax and billions for pensions funds for the PRIVATE sector that Bliar and that one eyed sweaty sock fucking raided and then spent on growing out of proportion the hundreds of thousands of non jobs in the public sector that dwindling private sector employees who then have to pay a higher burden towards the public purse which in turn feeds that voracious monster called the public sector. Then they spend billions more on benefits when we were allegedly booming and borrowed billions more still. Labour as recent history has shown are the Man U of financial profligacy in spending everyone else's money but piss poor at paying it back. Oh they know the game will eventually be up and leave it to the incoming government to pay the bill who always end up being those nasty Tories. They fucked up the legacy that the out going Conservative government (the one lead by by John Major) had built up under the stewardship of the chancellor. What was that legacy I hear you sneering at? Oh, only the best set of government finances left to ANY incoming government in history.

So the note left in the "in tray" at the treasury saying "it's all gone, there is no money" at best was a sick joke but turned out to be spot on. So Mr, Mrs, Miss or MS public sector worker don't expect the private sector to pick up the mess that your probably preferred political party put us in and certainly the preferred choice of support given by those union bosses who did not lose a days pay sending you out on strike.  

I have no pension to speak of. In fact a small amount accrued with a previous employment looks like being gobbled up in fees by the provider so don't bleat on to me and if you're in a shit low paid job, tough you should have tried harder at school. If you have a dearth of kids to feed, tough again you should have put a sack on it or kept your legs closed.

Oh just remember who let let in without a fight all those Eastern Europeans to take jobs and drive down the wages of non public sector workers legit or otherwise.

I'm sick to death of it's the Tories this, it's the bankers that, you can't undo 13 years of one unopposed governments work no matter how good or bad they were in a few years and with the world in financial meltdown no-one is guaranteed anything by anyone no more no matter what you were promised. The more anyone takes now the less your children will have and the more and longer they will have to pay for it.

Even the French and Germans are in denial wrt the Euro and are in the process of trying to engineer a new treaty to get by any means what they want. You remember that treaty that one eye signed up to that was just a tinkering around the edges of the Mastricht treaty. So great was it the one eye sneeked in a few days later and signed on his own.

Oh btw I did not do college or uni and am now going to spend the next few hours working un paid to keep the house warm, food on the table and hope that my letter to Santa arrives before YOURS.

It's hard but it's going to get harder for all of us, just be thankful for what you have.

[ghanimah]

People slating public sector workers for withdrawing their labour is exactly what the government will love to see. You know,those people surfing the net whilst at work calling public workers lazy and fortunate. Many of those on strike wont have that luxury. They will be wiping pensioners backsides,cleaning the street,serving kids lunches,helping kids learn to read and write,etc,etc,etc. Many on minimum wage or a little above it, made to increase their pension payments ,pay for longer,recieve it later,and get less,already seen collegues made redundant and had their hours cut with no chance of a pay rise. Their pensions were not gold plated in the first place. They were peanuts in so many cases.

I like Clarkson but he overstepped the mark. He is a public worker,paid with a stealth tax from television licence holders.
He is a Tory and pals with that cunt Cameron. People have been sacked for alot less in broadcasting(not that i'd sack him though)

The "we're all in it together" is a load of shit too. The weathly aint suffering are they? The millionaire Mp's blurting that shit out to us aint suffering are they? they won't be working until they are 67 will they?

There is money,plenty of it. But the government chose to fleece those who need it whilst those with pots of cash get away scot free.

Not true, increase in contributions doesn't apply to those on £15,000 or less. All of the pension reforms (effectively) don't apply to those over 50 either

[Arriba]

Not true, increase in contributions doesn't apply to those on £15,000 or less. All of the pension reforms (effectively) don't apply to those over 50 either

So paying longer isn't paying more? Even if what you say is true they are still paying more and have less disposable income as everything else is costing more.
Also i'm sure those on the princely sum of 15 grand a year are doing cartwheels. Those poor buggers wont be able to afford to retire anyway and will have to work until they drop the way things are going.

One thing is for sure,on this topic no matter what anyone puts on here someone will have an opposing view.
An arguement that cannot be won aint it.