Public sector pensions strike?

[tans]

So, whos likely to be affected by this?

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/ad3b7622-deb3-11e0-a228-00144feabdc0.html#axzz1YUHTNK6I

Do people think the strike will happen?

[Samdy Gray]

Some will strike because they believe they're getting a bad deal. Some will strike because the union tells them they're getting a bad deal.

What they can't seem to comprehend is that their current pensions are unsustainable. All they see is the immediate reduction in pay, rather than being long sighted enough to understand that if they didn't make those contributions now then the likelihood is there will be no money left to pay them much of a (if any) pension in the future.

The unions don't seem to be explaining this either. Strange that.

[Ardiles]

I am sure the strikes will go ahead, and equally sure they will achieve **** all.  As Samdy says, the current arrangements are not sustainable.  Trying to maintain them simply shifts the cost to later generations...who are not yet able to speak up for themselves.  I find that very disturbing.

I do have some sympathy with public sector workers who are having to face up to a reduction in their pay & conditions.  It's not nice, but no different really to those in the private sector who had to do this years ago.  For that reason, I can't see there being much in the way of public support for the proposed strikes.  It's unpleasant, but we all know how it ends.

[Batch]

So, whos likely to be affected by this?

Absolutely nobody. The only people that will even realise the public sector is on strike is the news outlets

[Cookie]

Meh! I'll vote to strike because I'm a selfish fucker who wants to protect my pension.

The fact is the changes proposed to the public pension scheme in the short and medium term will actually reduce the self sustainability of public sector pensions requiring the taxpayer to foot even more of the bill. If you move from a defined benefit to a defined contribution then less money will be available to pay for all those lazy retired ex public sector fuckers. Bearing in mind that the changes could also result in more people opting out of the scheme (85% of public sector workers belong to the pension scheme compared to 40% in the private sector) then again, the amount of money going in to pay those already retired increases the deficit in the short/medium term, which goes against the short term fiscal objectives we've seen from the coalition to date.

And lets not forget the biggest pensions in the country are claimed by private sector executives not public sector workers.

[Ardiles]

And lets not forget the biggest pensions in the country are claimed by private sector executives not public sector workers.

That's irrelevant.  No one is saying that public sector deals are individually as attractive as those enjoyed by FTSE 100 execs.  But collectively, they cost a whole lot more and - crucially - they are funded by our taxes.

I am quite sure that Vince Cable's call this week to curb executive pay and pensions is, at least in part, prompted by a desire to demonstrate that the government is looking at the very top end of the pay scale as well (something they have been accused of ignoring while going after the benefits of public sector workers).  It's a bit of a bluff.

I hope none of this comes across as a diatribe against public sector workers.  I'm married to one for a start.  Just trying to be pragmatic because I can't see how the present arrangements can carry on in their present form.

[jayohaitchenn]

As a public sectoe wroker I can see both sides. I won't be striking (Long story, I'm not allowed but wouldn't anyway).

The only thing that rankles me, is that in the private sector I could be earning about £5k a year more but with a worse pension. Maybe it's time to go back to the real world and earn my living

[Samdy Gray]

The fact is the changes proposed to the public pension scheme in the short and medium term will actually reduce the self sustainability of public sector pensions requiring the taxpayer to foot even more of the bill. If you move from a defined benefit to a defined contribution then less money will be available to pay for all those lazy retired ex public sector fuckers.

How so? There will be more money being paid into the scheme and less benefits being paid out. How does this create short/medium term shortfalls?

And it's not changing to a defined contributions scheme. It's still defined benefit, it'll just be based on a career average rather than final salary.

[Cookie]

How so? There will be more money being paid into the scheme and less benefits being paid out. How does this create short/medium term shortfalls?

And it's not changing to a defined contributions scheme. It's still defined benefit, it'll just be based on a career average rather than final salary.

Fair point, I was referring to one of the proposals offered to reduce the cost of the pension scheme.

The increase in contributions is fair point for discussion between the trade unions and the government but to date the government have shown little interest in discussion. I'm personally happy to pay 3% more each year into my pension but only if I receive a cost of living pay settlement year on year. I haven't seen an inflationary rise in my wages since 2007.

[sheepshagger]

Sorry Cookie I haven't had a pay rise since 2005 - and I have no pension !

The facts are that the current pension system for the Public sector doesn't work anymore - and therefore needs changing

People in the public sector are not going to like that - understandably - however I believe they need to be more pragmatic about this and see the bigger picture

I cannot see any public sympathy for a group of workers going on strike at the moment - at a time when a lot of people are out of work and would gladly trade places

I chose the private sector as it pays me more than the public sector - a lot of people choose the public sector because it is a "safe" job - I guess more money more risk, or (on the whole) less money less risk - but better "perks" overall

[DMR]

The public sector can fist themselves, time to feel like pinch like every other cunt

[Ardiles]

The public sector can fist themselves, time to feel like pinch like every other cunt

So what's it like working for the diplomatic corps?  

[Samdy Gray]

The increase in contributions is fair point for discussion between the trade unions and the government but to date the government have shown little interest in discussion. I'm personally happy to pay 3% more each year into my pension but only if I receive a cost of living pay settlement year on year. I haven't seen an inflationary rise in my wages since 2007.

You're still onto a massive winner though.

I'm generalising, but let's say you earn an average salary of £25,000 that (for simplicity of this calculation) won't increase and you have 30 years until retirement.

You could invest your 3% a year (£750), plus an extra 20% from Boy George, into a personal pension for 30 years and at a modest rate of 4% growth you'd have a pension pot at retirement of around £52,500 having paid in £22,500 yourself. Given current annuity rates of about 5%, you'd get a pension of around £2,625 a year from that.

Or from your public sector pension; for your 3%, and with 30 years service at perhaps 1/60th accrual you will get a pension of £12,500 a year at the same cost. An annuity rate of a whopping 55%.

[thepeoplesgame]

The public sector can fist themselves, time to feel like pinch like every other cunt

Not EVERY other cunt. Those at the top, including those forcing through these reforms, are still doing very nicely thank you.

[Fred Elliot]

The public sector can fist themselves, time to feel like pinch like every other cunt

Well said David