Pay Up Pompey,Pompey Pay Up!

[jonny72]

I imagine the case will come down to the image rights matter, the rest of it is just HMRC letting off some steam. Seems like they have a pretty strong case though, it's blatantly obvious that inflated image rights payments were made to avoid taxes so it will come down to the question of whether it is legal or not.

[pauld]

I imagine the case will come down to the image rights matter, the rest of it is just HMRC letting off some steam.

Think you're right there jonny. The whole image rights thing is manifestly taking the piss

Seems like they have a pretty strong case though, it's blatantly obvious that inflated image rights payments were made to avoid taxes so it will come down to the question of whether it is legal or not.

Actually in this case it may not even matter whether it's legal or not (they've got a separate case on football image rights generally later in the year IIRC), so much as whether it was unfairly prejudicial to HMRC's interests in the CVA vote

[RobertT]

Isn't this very closely linked to the criminal proceedings they started against Storrie and Redknapp around the use of offshore accounts to avoid tax?  They seem to be suggesting the club did it for several years with the players by claiming it was for image rights - so they are not arguing against proper payments for image rights.  The claim appears to be that it was used for players with no real basis just to avoid paying the PAYE.  That's close to our little brown paper bag exercise if true.  Noy only is the CVA at risk here, but a favourable result for the HMRC could result in severe footballing penalties as well.

[pauld]

Isn't this very closely linked to the criminal proceedings they started against Storrie and Redknapp around the use of offshore accounts to avoid tax?  They seem to be suggesting the club did it for several years with the players by claiming it was for image rights - so they are not arguing against proper payments for image rights.  The claim appears to be that it was used for players with no real basis just to avoid paying the PAYE.

There's no "suggests" to it - HMRC's counsel openly accused Pompey of "sham payents" to avoid tax:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/leagues/premierleague/portsmouth/7925343/Portsmouth-accused-of-tax-avoidance-through-sham-agreements-with-players.html

That's close to our little brown paper bag exercise if true.  Noy only is the CVA at risk here, but a favourable result for the HMRC could result in severe footballing penalties as well.

No danger of that. I think you'll find those kind of excessively harsh penalties only apply to us (see Spurs et al)

One other aspect that's received little if any coverage is HMRC's QC directly saying Chainrai is "not a fit and proper person to run a football club". If, as expected, Andronikou sticks to his assertion that Chainrai is the only prospective buyer who "ticks all the boxes" and "sells" the club back to Chainrai (who appointed him in the first place) as soon as the case is done, that's a very interesting gauntlet HMRC have thrown down for the Football League. Not to mention Pompey's new CEO, former head of compliance at the FA, David Lampitt.

There's more battles being fought here than just Pompey's CVA

[Summerof69]

I see Scudamore has said Pompey duped the PL.

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/sport/football/3080777/Richard-Scudamore-said-he-was-betrayed-as-Portsmouth-went-into-administration.html

[pauld]

Or put another way, the Premier League abjectly failed to provide any form of regulatory framework that could protect clubs from bent owners. Which is in large part what this is about. (And I'm not picking on the Prem, the Football League's window dressing is no better)

[Don Rogers Shop]

Oh dear even players  like Kevin Prince-Boateng voted on the CVA. Even though they are football creditors

[Summerof69]

Decision at 3pm tomorrow.

Pompey are saying that if they lose the court case, they could go out of business.

[pauld]

Decision at 3pm tomorrow.

No, it's no earlier than 3pm tomorrow. And both sides have said they'll appeal if they lose, so won't be a final decision anyway

Pompey are saying that if they lose the court case, they could go out of business.

Well, their QC rebutted HMRC's claim that losing the case would not cause them to go into liquidation. Which is a little different. He said that "the evidence is clear" then went on to quote Andronikou's claim that there was no other buyer than Chainrai. Not exactly the most solid evidential basis one could hope to find.

Interesting the other PL clubs wanted Pompey to fail so they could divvie up the TV money between them. Bunch of jackals

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/p/portsmouth/8886009.stm

[ghanimah]

Interesting the other PL clubs wanted Pompey to fail so they could divvie up the TV money between them. Bunch of jackals

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/p/portsmouth/8886009.stm

To be fair that's no different to the experiences felt by any other business on their knees

[pauld]

To be fair that's no different to the experiences felt by any other business on their knees

Oh I don't disagree but it makes a mockery of the whole idea of the "football family" though doesn't it? But you're right both this and the abject failure to spot there was any kind of problem until way too late are inevitable consequences of the PL's laissez-faire approach to regulation

[pauld]

According to Dan Roan (Beeb journo who was in court), the liquidation argument is that if they lose the case, they'd tell the FL they couldn't guarantee to fulfill their fixtures so would then get kicked out of the League and hence go into liquidation. Which seems on a "Raoul Moat with a shotgun to his neck" level of weakness

[Bumblebee]

Random question and I apologise if it has been asked already...but IF pompey were to go out of business and be removed from the football league, be that on Thursday or later after appeals etc, who would take their place in the championship?

Surely there is some form of framework for such an eventuality?  Would it be the highest placed league one team not to gain promotion last year? or perhaps us for being runners up in the play-off's? or would the league simply continue with 23 teams for the year and then there would be an additional place for grabs for promotion from each of the leagues below to even things out next year?

Anyone know?

[pauld]

Don't think anyone knows Bumblebee, but let's hope it doesn't come to that. Tbh, I think this was more about their QC laying it on thick than any serious threat ("Rule in our favour or the football club gets it"). Even if they lose tomorrow they've already said they'll appeal

[Ardiles]

Random question and I apologise if it has been asked already...but IF pompey were to go out of business and be removed from the football league, be that on Thursday or later after appeals etc, who would take their place in the championship?

Surely there is some form of framework for such an eventuality?  Would it be the highest placed league one team not to gain promotion last year? or perhaps us for being runners up in the play-off's? or would the league simply continue with 23 teams for the year and then there would be an additional place for grabs for promotion from each of the leagues below to even things out next year?

Anyone know?

As Paul says, hope it doesn't come to that.  But I do remember this being discussed in the Sheffield local press a few months ago (shortly after our day out debacle at Wembley).  One way or another, they concluded that neither they (Sheff Weds, as Championship 22nd place finishers) or ourselves would benefit if Portsmouth died.  Instead, the Championship woud operate as a 23 team division in 2010/11.