Pay Up Pompey,Pompey Pay Up!

[Summerof69]

Why would any club want to pay for pompey players now anyway?  Just wait a few weeks and I reckon they'll get them for free

Exactly. They are due to go back to court on March 1st, a few days after the players are due to be paid...but they'll probably be late...again, depending on the outcome of the winding-up petition.

[jonny72]

One thing I don't get is what happens if the winding up order is granted. Doesn't that mean a receiver will be appointed to liquidate the club? Or will they go in to administration before it's granted? Or can they do it after? Or will the receiver put it in to administration before liquidation? Any experts out there?

[Talk Talk]

One thing I don't get is what happens if the winding up order is granted. Doesn't that mean a receiver will be appointed to liquidate the club? Or will they go in to administration before it's granted? Or can they do it after? Or will the receiver put it in to administration before liquidation? Any experts out there?

Winding up = receiver = liquidation. No way back.

Administration = insolvency practioner = possible survival.

[jonny72]

Winding up = receiver = liquidation. No way back.

Administration = insolvency practioner = possible survival.

That was my understanding, so why with the winding up order potentially being issued are they still talking about administration? Or would the judge give them the option of administration instead of the winding up order?

[Talk Talk]

That was my understanding, so why with the winding up order potentially being issued are they still talking about administration? Or would the judge give them the option of administration instead of the winding up order?

There is no option. You either petition for administration or a winding up order. If HMRC are going for the WUO then that is game over.

[Oaksey Moonraker]

That was my understanding, so why with the winding up order potentially being issued are they still talking about administration? Or would the judge give them the option of administration instead of the winding up order?

I think if they go into admin, effectively all the debts are frozen and the Administrator would be appointed to see if the club can become a going concern again. Liquidation would be they think the club is completely insolvent and the assets divided up under insolvency rules, HMRC are no longer a preferred creditor.

I think HMRC and Pompey are playing a bit of brinkmanship, if Pompey stave off the winding up order then they aviod going into admin and the 10 points deduction. The current owner would lose most of the £17m he has loaned if say administrators settled 5p in the £1. HMRC are pushing for the winding up order in the hope Pompey settle their debt as if the go into admin they get treated as a normal creditor at say 5p in the £1.

So basically it would be for the court to decide if the club has a chance of paying the debt hence the court ordering in specialist insolvency accountants.

What I'm not sure of is if Pompey went into liquidation is if the football preferred creditors rule applies as if Pompey could no longer trade then basically their place in the Premier/Football League isn't worth anything. The football creditors rule ensures other clubs get paid in full, if they didn't the League wouldn't allow them to take part and a football club as a business has no chance of survival if they can't join the league competition and would have to liquidate. HMRC have challenged it in the courts and if went against them so they have lost millions as a result

[ghanimah]

I think HMRC and Pompey are playing a bit of brinkmanship,

I'm not so sure that HMRC are playing brinkmanship, when Swindon's new board attended their first Trust meeting IIRC they made it clear that not only were Swindon 24 hours from being wound up but that the patience of HMRC had snapped and that they were now actively looking for a club to wind up.

[Talk Talk]

I'm not so sure that HMRC are playing brinkmanship, when Swindon's new board attended their first Trust meeting IIRC they made it clear that not only were Swindon 24 hours from being wound up but that the patience of HMRC had snapped and that they were now actively looking for a club to wind up.

Quite. From personal experience (several times) they don't fuck about. HMRC have no view on how valuable or useful or how much heritage you have as a business, they just want what they are owed. Not negotiable.

[Oaksey Moonraker]

 

Quite. From personal experience (several times) they don't fuck about. HMRC have no view on how valuable or useful or how much heritage you have as a business, they just want what they are owed. Not negotiable.

I accept what you're saying about HMRC, but I believe they have lost patience as you say with football clubs and looking at the most likely method to get the money owed to them and in full. Administration isn't necessarily the best option for HMRC and if Pompey are still desparately trying to avoid it still then HMRC will look to force their hand in making them pay up. If Pompey can find the money then they get HMRC off their backs and just keep limping on.

I can't see that there is any other option for Pompey but administration unless they find the money to pay HMRC e.g get the Premier League to advance the £14m parachute payment. They're going down anyway to they may as well take the 9 point deduction but the current owner. The problem is that Chainrai and the previous ower Gadaymak may have too much to lose by administration (unless their loans are secured, say against the ground) as they just become unsecured creditors.

The whole thing is a mess and I'm sure in time it will unwind what really happened but the scenario is a reminder of how close we came.

[Nemo]

The problem is that Chainrai and the previous ower Gadaymak may have too much to lose by administration (unless their loans are secured, say against the ground)

Don't even own the ground do they?

[Oaksey Moonraker]

Don't even own the ground do they?

There was something on 5 Live tonight that they own the ground but Gadaymak own's the surrounding land so the redevelopment potential is limited

[jonny72]

I'm not so sure that HMRC are playing brinkmanship, when Swindon's new board attended their first Trust meeting IIRC they made it clear that not only were Swindon 24 hours from being wound up but that the patience of HMRC had snapped and that they were now actively looking for a club to wind up.

HMRC do not do brinkmanship. They do pay us the money you owe us in full or we'll do everything we can to shut you down. They'd prefer getting nothing and winding up the business than getting 50p in the £1. For them its not just about getting all the money they are owed, its about sending out a message that you can't fuck with them so others won't try to.

Plus they're pissed off with all football clubs and want to cause as much pain as possible until the shit stops.

[Oaksey Moonraker]

HMRC do not do brinkmanship. They do pay us the money you owe us in full or we'll do everything we can to shut you down. They'd prefer getting nothing and winding up the business than getting 50p in the £1. For them its not just about getting all the money they are owed, its about sending out a message that you can't fuck with them so others won't try to.

Plus they're pissed off with all football clubs and want to cause as much pain as possible until the shit stops.

If I remember rightly when we first went into Administration there was a Football League rule that it you went into admin, that you had to pay HMRC in full as well as football creditors. That rule has been changed and clubs have gone down the Administration route and HMRC have lost out. Like you say HMRC are right pissed off and it Pompey went into liquidation it would put a rocket up the arse of a lot of clubs.

[Power to people]

So if they get liquidated is it a case of players contracts become null and void so they are all free to move on for free or does the insolvency person move in and sell everything including the kitchen sink for whatever anyone will pay including players and pompey are immediately no longer exisit ? 

[pauld]

So if they get liquidated is it a case of players contracts become null and void so they are all free to move on for free or does the insolvency person move in and sell everything including the kitchen sink for whatever anyone will pay including players and pompey are immediately no longer exisit ? 

No they liquidate the players as well. It's kind of like the Pharoahs being buried with their slaves, concubines etc - when the business goes down, they line all the players up and shoot them. It's a kindness really, no-one wants to see the streets cluttered up with homeless Utakas wandering about the place.