Rights Issue

[mexico red]

i would stop watching football if that ever happened

[Phil_S]

What would be the point

Its been said many a time before, but the future is an American style approach:

1. A top tier of a small group of massive clubs that pay a fortune to the players and play to a major audience on one day per weekend and one evening per week. No promotion nor relegation.

2. A farm league/division funded partially by the big boys. Teams play on the other weekend day and another evening in the week. This is basically reserve team football in all but name. The clubs are owned by the big boys and develop players.

3. A semi-pro regional league sponsored from above or populated by young kids. Split regionally to reduce costs. Some sort of playoff mechanism and maximum amount of time that you can play in the league before you either progress or are released.

4. Amateur leagues.

That would wreck the game totally. Next thing we'd have a "World Series" with  just ManUre, Chelski, Arse-nal & maybe Real Madrid.

The point is even these days a club can be relegated if they have a poor season, money or not. Newcastle are a good example. Clubs can also progress if given the financial clout. Man City are the latest erxample, but Reading & Portsmouth are others in the past. Why should a club permanently be in the top tier because they were once great. On that basis the top tier should consist of the first clubs that were formed & would include Notts County

[pauld]

I'm sorry but that sounds shit. Promotion and relegation is what football is all about. We dont need an American style play off system as we already have cups for that sort of thing

It does but I think he's right. Don't think NMH was advocating it, just that it's what's likely to happen. It might not be quite as bleak as NMH paints it though:

1) G14 pull up the drawbridge behind them with European Super League. Man Utd, Chelsea, Liverpool and Arsenal (and maybe Man City) bugger off to join it. They take with them the massive TV money and uber-paid players as per NMH.
2) Without massive TV deal to overinflate everything, English football settles back down to more sensible salaries/revenues
3) The huge differential between teams revenues and outlays in English football largely disappears - there'd still be some as there'd still be a top-flight TV deal better than the lower leagues, but it wouldn't be on the current billions vs millions discrepancy.
4) We all get back to watching competitive leagues where clubs and players have a chance of progressing on sporting rather than financial grounds and clubs aren't bankrupting themselves to try and keep up
5) The European Super League disappears up Rupert Murdoch's arse. No-one cares.

Sadly I think NMH is more likely to be right. Especially on the Euro-defectors leaving behind reserve sides to play in the rump Football League as training fodder for their Euro super sides. Benitez, Wenger and Mourinho have all suggested in one form or another that the "top clubs" should be allowed to do just that in the FL. And of course, the game's administrators in this country wouldn't have the balls to say No.

[Nomoreheroes]

It does but I think he's right. Don't think NMH was advocating it, just that it's what's likely to happen. It might not be quite as bleak as NMH paints it though:

1) G14 pull up the drawbridge behind them with European Super League. Man Utd, Chelsea, Liverpool and Arsenal (and maybe Man City) bugger off to join it. They take with them the massive TV money and uber-paid players as per NMH.
2) Without massive TV deal to overinflate everything, English football settles back down to more sensible salaries/revenues
3) The huge differential between teams revenues and outlays in English football largely disappears - there'd still be some as there'd still be a top-flight TV deal better than the lower leagues, but it wouldn't be on the current billions vs millions discrepancy.
4) We all get back to watching competitive leagues where clubs and players have a chance of progressing on sporting rather than financial grounds and clubs aren't bankrupting themselves to try and keep up
5) The European Super League disappears up Rupert Murdoch's arse. No-one cares.

Sadly I think NMH is more likely to be right. Especially on the Euro-defectors leaving behind reserve sides to play in the rump Football League as training fodder for their Euro super sides. Benitez, Wenger and Mourinho have all suggested in one form or another that the "top clubs" should be allowed to do just that in the FL. And of course, the game's administrators in this country wouldn't have the balls to say No.

Precisely. Not advocating it, but just think it will evolve to something like that.

[jonny72]

Using the Football League as a farm / feeder league to the Premier League might work. Each PL club gets assigned FL club in each division, with the top four getting two each (to match up the different league sizes). Then the PL clubs have to send out x number of players to the lower leagues, and they could share coaches and managers and that sort of thing.

I can't see the top clubs ever leaving their national leagues. I can see the Champions League becoming a midweek Euro League, to give the top clubs more big money games and a guaranteed income. Though I reckon there would still be some form of promotion and relegation, there has to be as its as fundamental to the game as the ball is.

[pauld]

Using the Football League as a farm / feeder league to the Premier League might work. Each PL club gets assigned FL club in each division, with the top four getting two each (to match up the different league sizes). Then the PL clubs have to send out x number of players to the lower leagues, and they could share coaches and managers and that sort of thing.

Christ, you've managed the impossible - you've conjured up a fate worse than the bleak picture NMH was portraying

[jonny72]

Christ, you've managed the impossible - you've conjured up a fate worse than the bleak picture NMH was portraying

There would still be promotion and relegation and Football League clubs would get better players and lower their wage bills.

Why is that worse?

[Batch]

There would still be promotion and relegation and Football League clubs would get better players and lower their wage bills.

Why is that worse?

Because it would be a loss of our identity. We would caese to be and become Man U B or some such tripe.

[jonny72]

Because it would be a loss of our identity. We would caese to be and become Man U B or some such tripe.

How does half a dozen loan players and a coach or two amount to losing your identity?

It could save clubs like Swindon £500k a season, which seems worth it to me.

[nevillew]

It could save clubs like Swindon £500k a season, which seems worth it to me.

So it's a well thought out, fully costed proposal then ?

[iffy]

No thanks. To any of this.

The premiership sailing away in all its glorious irrelevance is fine and more power to them. The idea that my club is going to get twinned up with bloody Wigan or Fulham or Birmingham is utterly laughable. The idea that I should be grateful for it - for a saving worth 1500 season tickets - is contemptible.

[jonny72]

So what would you suggest to solve the problem of clubs like Swindon losing £2m a season.

Don't forget that the only thing keeping the club in existence at the moment is Fitton and his mates. If they decide to fuck off the club will be history within a year. Would you actually prefer that to having more loan players?

There are too many professional footballers and they're paid too much money. Clubs like Man Utd can put out a reserve team that would win the Championship, wouldn't it be better them playing for clubs like Swindon instead of playing in the reserves or sat on the bench and not playing at all?

[pauld]

So what would you suggest to solve the problem of clubs like Swindon losing £2m a season.

Wage caps, starting at the top level; enforcing existing regulations on ownership/financial probity; prohibiting clubs from starting the season if they carry unsustainable debt. None of which is immediately implementible, but it needs change of that order of magnitude. And if the "big clubs" don't like it, let them fuck off to their European Super League fuelled by small country levels of debt, ridiculous TV deals and obscene wages and leave the rest of us to enjoy our game.

[jonny72]

Wage caps, starting at the top level; enforcing existing regulations on ownership/financial probity; prohibiting clubs from starting the season if they carry unsustainable debt. None of which is immediately implementible, but it needs change of that order of magnitude.

I agree with all of that. But I just think all the extra players at Premier League clubs that seldom play could be put to good use by lower division clubs and everyone would benefit. Sure there are a lot more loans happening now than ever but there is scope for it to be done even more.

[BANGKOK RED]

Lets not stop there..........

We could even get those bontempi organ type things that they have in America to play little jingles for us to sing along to during the match. Fuck yeah.