who would you vote for in a general election tomorrow

[pumbaa]

The basic pjilosophy of labour though is that they think that they know best how to run our lives & spend our money. So inevitably they take as much as they can & then spend it on what they think is important. The problem is that the state is very wasteful & so a lot of the tax take goes into a black hole.
I believe that the person best qualified in spending efficiently is the one who earned it. If you've worked for the money you think twice about throwing it away. Sure we need taxation, & a central government, but this should be for basics , eg. Defence, Health, Education, Law & Order, transport & basic welfare support for those in genuine need.

The MoD is a prime example of beauracracy gone mad. I know someone who used to be in the Navy & was responsible for requisitioning items for ships comojng into port. If he wanted a bolt he would need to fill in countless forms & get so many authorisations that the bolt would cost £50 & be delivered a week after the ship had sailed again. His solution was to go to B & Q & buy it hiomself from his own pocket.

You've neglected to consider that fact that said bolt would need to be manufactured to a military specification, which automatically turns a 5p bolt into the 50 quid bolt. Especially when you HAVE to buy it from BAe Systems, who like many other major defence manufacturers place a hefty markup on item you can effectively buy off the shelf.

A bit like the 4GB SD Card that's needed for a certain military aircraft to load a fairly simple database into the aircraft's computer. You can pick up such a card, for what 10 quid in the shops? Oh no, we HAVE to buy them through the aircraft manufacturer at 4k a shot. They were politely told to fuck off by yours truly. And did I get any recognition for saving the UK taxpayer thousands of pounds? Absolutely not........

Our industrial base has to take as much blame as the bureaucracy of government (which has not improved, btw) by taking the piss in trying to maximise profit to their shareholders at taxpayers expense.

[jonny72]

What a load of crap. I haven't got the time or inclination to fisk this as I am too knackered but the problem with the finance sector was caused by over regulation, not by truly free markets.

Ever heard of the FSA?

<sigh>

The FSA went as close as they could to saying "we fucked up over Northern Rock" without actually saying it and accepting any liability. They were aware of the flaw in the way they funded their business and did fuck all about it, other than ignoring it and pushing back reviews.

Bearing in mind how reliant the UK was on the major banks (HSBC, Barclays, Lloyds, RBS) there is no way they should have been allowed to get in a position where they could fail. Where the fuck did the regulation go? HSBC and other major world banks (Santander for example) didn't fail, what did they do right and what did the others do wrong (and why did the FSA let them do it)? That is the sort of shit the FSA should be taking care of, and didn't.

[Phil_S]

The problem with the FSA is that they focussed on regulating the sale of mortgages rather than the mortgage companies & banks them selves.
They never seemed to question how the mortgages were being funded.
Prior to mortgage regulation in 2004 the Mortage Code Complaince Board (MCCB) did a good job in making mortgages clearer to understand for the consumer & laid down specific procedures & documents that had to be followed. Whilst it was a "voluntary" code it had to be followed or you could not operate in the market.
The FSA took over & introduced principled regfulation. They don't tell brokers like me exactly what to do. You have to follow principles & hope your interpretation is correct. This results in masses of paperwork in triplicate & massive additional costs & fees.
The blame for the banking crisis is often blamed on Northern Rock supposedly giveing out 125% mortgages. They never did this. In fact they were doing 95% mortgages with the other 30 % being unsecured but at the same rate & term. Not IMHO a bad thing as many people have a mortgage AND other loans / HP any way (but not at mortgage rates)
The real cause of the problem was the way that mortgage funding was raised by the banks. Satring in the US they would give mortgages to any one with little reagrd to the ability to repay it. They would then sell the mortgages on (which is why they weren't bothered about the ability to pay), & use the capital to lend out again repaeting the process. Three things occured to spread this to the UK. Some Uk banks bought some of these packaged loans which had been sold several times over (Toxic debt), Some of the UK banks were operating in the states, & to a lesser degree the same thing beacme common practise here too. I say to a lesser extent here because the MCCB & subsequently the FSA did ensure that mortgages were not given so freely as in the states.
The main problem caused by this coming to a head is that banks / investors are no longer interested in buying mortgages from other banks. Hence the other banks do not have the same amounts to lend.
So the question is why did the FSA seem to focus just on the sale of mortgages & not the funding as well. I think that least part of the answer lies in the fact that the FSA has been focussing on implementing European Directives.

[Phil_S]

Our industrial base has to take as much blame as the bureaucracy of government (which has not improved, btw) by taking the piss in trying to maximise profit to their shareholders at taxpayers expense.

What I don't understand is why, the government doesn't use its buying power to bring the prices down. Supermarkets do it... eg. By telling farmers how much they will get for their milk. Why can't the MOD, NHS, etc dictate the prices to suppliers a bit more. It's not like their are too many other places the suppliers can go to sell their wares, or that there is only one supplier.
Same with major projects, they always seem to go over the budget & the tax payer has to pay. If I havce an extention done to my house I agree the price before hand after getting several quotes. I would even draw up a contract to agree the price if it were a major job. I would only expect to pay extra if I kept changing the specification. (Which I suspect is the answer)

[Simon Pieman]

I think it's because the FSA were as short sighted as the banks and didn't think what would happen if? With Northern Rock they blamed high staff turnover and not having a review for some time.

But you're absolutely right about the myth with Northern Rock, they don't have a high default rate on mortgages and had enough assets to cover themselves, it was a shorter term funding issue from what I've read.

[pumbaa]

What I don't understand is why, the government doesn't use its buying power to bring the prices down. Supermarkets do it... eg. By telling farmers how much they will get for their milk. Why can't the MOD, NHS, etc dictate the prices to suppliers a bit more. It's not like their are too many other places the suppliers can go to sell their wares, or that there is only one supplier.
Same with major projects, they always seem to go over the budget & the tax payer has to pay. If I havce an extention done to my house I agree the price before hand after getting several quotes. I would even draw up a contract to agree the price if it were a major job. I would only expect to pay extra if I kept changing the specification. (Which I suspect is the answer)

To be brutally honest Phil, I just don't know. I do know its been going on for years, and it will continue to go on. The costs on some of our major complex projects are just mind-blowing, but when you factor in labour and material costs for design, development and manufacture, you can see how they run into the multi-billions. The capitation rate for a PM at someone like BAe Systems in > £100 an hour.......

[Nemo]

To be brutally honest Phil, I just don't know. I do know its been going on for years, and it will continue to go on. The costs on some of our major complex projects are just mind-blowing, but when you factor in labour and material costs for design, development and manufacture, you can see how they run into the multi-billions. The capitation rate for a PM at someone like BAe Systems in > £100 an hour.......

If I was a cynic, I'd note the amount of defence ministers who have gone on to get non excecutive directorships at BAE.

[jonny72]

Why can't the MOD, NHS, etc dictate the prices to suppliers a bit more. It's not like their are too many other places the suppliers can go to sell their wares, or that there is only one supplier.

The NHS is a bad example. Drug prices are generally fixed by the NHS and the NHS as a whole has been turned in to a market place of sorts. Not sure that that its a brilliant idea or that it works and the whole target thing with the NHS is a joke and reduces the quality of service provided if anything.

Though I'd agree with the point in general. But the whole system is rotten from top to bottom, you've got MP's milking the system and everybody else takes their kick backs as well. Its not just limited to government and public services though, you see the same thing in private business.

[Talk Talk]

I think it's because the FSA were as short sighted as the banks and didn't think what would happen if? With Northern Rock they blamed high staff turnover and not having a review for some time.

But you're absolutely right about the myth with Northern Rock, they don't have a high default rate on mortgages and had enough assets to cover themselves, it was a shorter term funding issue from what I've read.

Good points from Phil and Si.

Without getting embroiled in explanations (I'm doing 16 hour days at the moment) I would just say two things:

- Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae sub prime lending in the US
- Mark to market asset valuation in the US and the UK = collapse of liquidity

Both of these were the result of interference in the workings of finance, i.e. regulation. They wouldn't have happened in a free market.

[leefer]

http://www.englishdemocrats.org.uk/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=319:political-correctness&catid=26:key-issues&Itemid=32

Is there anybody out there who has a good knowledge of these...are they credible,cant say i know alot about them...maybe a poor mans UKIP,cant be bothered to read the whole site...have they actually ever won any seats in Europe...will they do well on the back of the main partys in strife.

[Nemo]

I don't know, but they sound like the ruling party from V for Vendetta from their spiel. "England Prevails!"

[Simon Pieman]

They're the best political party ever created leefer!

In all seriousnous, asking people on here is probably the worst thing you could do.

[leefer]

Probably Sie...its the elections next week and the family are banging on to me cos i havnt voted for a while and hadnt intended to this time....weighing up ALL options but will probably stick to my guns.

[Arriba]

i will vote a different party in the euros to a general election.ukip has my vote in the euros next week

[Iffy's Onion Bhaji]

http://www.englishdemocrats.org.uk/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=319:political-correctness&catid=26:key-issues&Itemid=32

Is there anybody out there who has a good knowledge of these...are they credible,cant say i know alot about them...maybe a poor mans UKIP,cant be bothered to read the whole site...have they actually ever won any seats in Europe...will they do well on the back of the main partys in strife.

I posted about these earlier in the thread. They're getting my vote at the Euros anyway.