HAPPY ST GEORGES DAY EVERYBODY!!!

[pauld]

Paul, you are wasted on here. You would be better off reading Classics at Moscow University.

Fuck off soon.

Another happy customer of the Ironside School of Anger Management and Interpersonal Relations, I see.

Things you may have missed while you had your head up your arse:
The Soviet Union collapsed in 1989, meaning telling people you think are left-wing (and who isn't from your end of the spectrum) to "fuck off to Russia" is right up there with Tears for Fears, Snoods and Howard Jones
The TEF is a place for serious-ish football debate and talking bollocks. If you find that stokes your denim rage to such an extent, you may find other websites which cater more to the angry middle-aged more to your liking. I understand the Daily Mail site has an excellent and lively comments section

[Mexicano Rojo]

meow

[Luci]

I found the denim bit amusing

[Talk Talk]

I found the denim bit amusing

Yeah, so did I 

[Lumps]

I can see why this thread has reduced Ironside to spluttering incoherence, but why the fuck is Talk Talk so angry all the time.

As for the "mongrel race" debate, depends on your definition of race is suppose. The OED's main definition describes a race as one of the "major divisions of humankind, having distinct physical characteristics" which would make the English hard pressed to define themselves as a race at all, but it also includes a broader definition as "a group of persons connected by common descent" which gives a bit more scope.

Whether it's mongrel or not? Well the idea of any kind of "racial purity" in England, or the rest of Britain for that matter is a bit of a non-starter. Start with the Picts and some Celts, add the Scots who came over from Ireland, they're your basic Britons I suppose. Add a little genetic material from the Romans, and then, once they fuck off, a lot more from the waves of invasions from the Jutes the Angles and the Saxons in the South of England. That's adding your Germanic elements to the gene pool, language and culture. Then there's the Vikings adding some Nordic blood down the east coast, particularly in Northumberland and East Anglia. Then the Normans, giving us a good chunk of our aristocracy and reintroducing / strengthening the influence of Latin and the other romance laguages on the development of our language and culture. After that I guess it slows down a bit. 50-100,000 Huguenots flee across the channel from France shortly after 1685, but not any major invasions or waves of immigration until the 19th century when we get a fair few jewish and irish migrants. Then the 20th century with all the migrant waves from Asia, Uganda, the West Indies, Eastern Europe etc. etc. that get the likes of Ironside so worked up.

You got to say it looks a bit mongrel doesn't it. Even the BNP's own definitions for what's an acceptable racial background for membership, which covers a lot of the earlier (i.e. white) bits of the above, has to run to about a page of text.

What I've always found so amusing is that the likes of the BNP are quite happy to accept that the first half a dozen of those waves of immigration, from the Romans to the Normans, are component parts of British culture, despite the fact that each of them fundamentally transformed British society. But at the same time they're terrified of current immigration, which in relative terms is nowhere near as substantial and hasn't changed things nearly as much. Without the Romans, Angles, Saxons and Norse we'd all be speaking a some kind of development of a proto celtic language like pritennic or pictish, something sounding a bit like welsh or cornish. Instead we've got a language that reflects a very mixed heritage, based on both germanic and romance language roots, but with dialects in different parts of the country that reflect historical ethnic roots. So Northumberland and Norfolk and Suffolk have got words and place names with a distinctly Nordic feel, and Wales, Scotland and bits of Cornwall retain some bits of the Celtic tradition and language.

I like that fact we're a bit of a mixed bag myself. I'd hate to live somewhere like Japan where the race and culture have been quite insular and self contained over the centuries and is now having to respond to an increasingly global economy and culture.

[Talk Talk]

why the fuck is Talk Talk so angry all the time.

I'm not angry at the moment 

But I haven't read your post yet though...

[nevillew]

Wasn't Genghis Khan leader of the mongrels ?

[Lumps]

I'm not angry at the moment 

But I haven't read your post yet though...

Oh good smiley Talk Talk. That's what we like to see.

I don't think the post will annoy you it's all a bit historical facty type stuff.

[axs]

Has anyone suggested the English 'race' isn't a mongrel breed? Aren't we all agreeing on everything?

Maybe I'm just hungover.

[Lumps]

Has anyone suggested the English 'race' isn't a mongrel breed? Aren't we all agreeing on everything?

Maybe I'm just hungover.

Well no-one except Ironside, who just made some snide "you're all ignorant and need to learn about your culture if you think we're a mongrl race" comment.

I like mongrels myself

[Ardiles]

I have to confess I was being a little mischievous with the 'mongrel race' comment (which I still stand by, by the way).  I'd seen Ironside lurking and thought I'd dangle some bait.  It worked.

I blame the nerves...pressure of tomorrow's game is getting to me, I think.  If we get that win, I'm going to search out Ironside and give him a big, wet, sloppy kiss.

[Talk Talk]

Oh good smiley Talk Talk. That's what we like to see.

I don't think the post will annoy you it's all a bit historical facty type stuff.

No, it is very informative.

I just like baiting Davis because he is the self-appointed high horse left wing evangelist who rises up and slays the right wing dragons as soon as they show their ugly heads. A bit like St George but with a USSR flag instead of a red and white cross.

[Colin Todd]

I like that fact we're a bit of a mixed bag myself. I'd hate to live somewhere like Japan where the race and culture have been quite insular and self contained over the centuries and is now having to respond to an increasingly global economy and culture.

I agree, those fucking japs all look the same to me.

[Spy]

Lumps I found your post interesting.

[Ardiles]

There's a lot of baiting going on right now.  I think we should stop.  United we stand, divided we fall etc.  We're all Swindon fans and we really, really need to challenge our energy for tomorrow's game.  Seriously.

These nerves really are getting to me.  Anyone else feeling like this?