Thetownend.com

Reading the Guardian piece https://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2020/sep/29/deadly-dychonomics-premier-league-clubs-wont-care-if-efl-teams-go-under was frankly depressing, but also a worrying insight into a sadly too near future.

I genuinely don't know what I would do, so was interested on others thoughts?

I'm going to be in the vast majority but without STFC I don't think I'd really bother with football anymore. I'll still probably watch the odd game in the pub as a neutral but in all honesty during COVID, football was not really missed by me at all and I reckon i've fallen out of love with the game unfortunately.

Phoenix club, would probably peak my interest eventually but I think i'd find other things to do at weekends.

^^^^^ I'm not sure which way I'd go if a pheonix club emerged. All in or occasional interest.

or I might do the odd Ciren Town game instead.

Like a phoenix from the ashes....

Still watch most games on the box but interest outside of my team and the league they are in becomes more peripheral by the year.

Might be naive here, but surely club owners knew what was likely to happen and have acted accordingly. It does seem, though, that it’s pretty much business as usual.

There has been an emphasis on recruiting younger players which I presume cost less but if clubs are still maxing out the salary cap I can’t see what difference that will make.

We all hope any Bogle money is being kept in reserve.

There are always Wurst things that could happen I guess.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SaolVEJEjV4

Phoenix club for sure, if not then cheerio football.

Honestly, would depend on what my mates were doing. I enjoy going to football for the meets

Definately Phoenix club, I cannot ever contemplate following a different club at any level ever.

Only 2 teams, Swindon and England.

Swindon Spartans. 1879 all over again. Pints while leaning against the boundary fence. I'm looking forward to it already.

Phoenix club. If a stack of clubs go, the standard of any new non league may not be too dissimilar anyway. I made an effort last year to get back on board with football, not just STFC - and now listen to NTT20 and watch Quest start to finish.... and it makes following Town that much better, when you know who to be looking out for, and goings on at other clubs.

What a prick Sean Dyche is. For a man whose entire career was in the lower leagues, needs to remember where he came from.

This

Supermarine could fill a hole..

Putting my asshole hat on, he's right.

I'd rather the premier league didn't exist and football went back to the good old days. Seems to be a lot of idiots about who think football doesn't exist outside the PL.

Probably a phoenix club, and I enjoy the EFL  on Quest, not the PL.

Interesting looking in as a geographical outsider that in 26 votes no one has gone for Supermarine.

So, the government should bail out clubs with taxpayer’s money like they have with their £1.5bn support for the ‘arts’?

Or just let clubs die.

Hopefully, Dyche will get the boot and have no EFL clubs left to give him a job.

Phoenix club, or nothing.

Although I have been toying with the idea of following a Thai team regardless of what happens with Swindon, not that I'm ever likely to get around to it.

Doesn't have to be an either or. There's enough money in football that the industry can sort itself out without taxpayer money. If the Premier League won't play ball with that, there's plenty of ways govt can put pressure on them. Threaten their precious TV revenue (all games free to air), or maybe beef up the HMRC units that look into football clubs' tax avoidance schemes. Better yet, get HMRC to start looking at some of the owners' tax avoidance schemes. I'm sure they'd find they've got a few quid down the back of the sofa then.

I would look to form a group to buy one of the non league teams down here and get them in the premier league. Having played Football Manager for many years I think I can do it.

So would the glory-hunting twat like to explain him/herself?

The problem with this is what does acted accordingly entail?

Not committing to spending what you can’t afford to cover for a season.

I'm sure we can rely on football club owners to have acted prudently and not over-committed or gambled the futures of the clubs they run in any way.

Like the idea,  not SS FC is a good look though.

Phoenix club for sure, and whilst I would never wish for it, I bet it would be more fun than a large part of our recent history.

Our Non-League neighbours took the risk...

True.  How did that nor cross my mind??

If the price of a PL bail out is no relegation from the PL in the event of another curtailed season, what is the point in carrying on playing this season.

That would mean no promotion or relegation throughout the entire pyramid.

I think I'd want to support the Phoenix endeavour as long as it was united and not bogged down in self-importance and politics.

It's either that or follow football as a neutral.

I would of course support Belarusian giants FK Slutsk

I suspect I’d default to my 2nd team, over time I may end up feeling the same about them but I doubt it.

I image I’d just follow that team rather than support them

Can’t imagine giving up on football, how do just stop liking the sport?

Swindon Town, most likely. My local club.  ;D

It's always been about friends & family for me, so following a phoenix club would make most sense if that's what they were doing as well.

Staying in business?

Get ISIS back as sponsor, keep everyone happy!

Couldn't tell you until it had happened. I wouldn't migrate to another club, so if the phoenix club didn't 'feel' like Town, I'm not sure I'd follow with the same interest.


I don't vote Tory, and given the club and their chairman's Wonga/Tomlinson links, they can get fuuuuuuucked.

Interesting that 3 people would switch to a Premier league team.

Not sure that really adds up. I don't think I'd be going out on a limb if I suggested Lee Power is unlikely to be a dyed in the wool socialist :)

Well no, but at least we can assume with Town there's no (alleged) backhand deals from a money lender sponsoring a massively non-league team out of the blue who's owner just happened to donate the same amount of money to an MP involved in the government investigation at that time into money lenders...

Yeah, not something that would even cross my mind, I may go for a Scottish team to follow but not in England, I would feel dirty(er).

Are you suggesting there was anything that was in any way dubious about that? I'm shocked, shocked I tell you :)

Amazed no one has picked me up on this

(https://i2-prod.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/incoming/article17487967.ece/ALTERNATES/s1200c/2_Phoenix-Nights.jpg)

im a utd fan and have been since i was 7/8 around the same time i was starting to watch swindon live. As a kid you get under pressure to support someone "good", it makes it easier supporting teams at polar ends of the league as there is never a conflict. if they played each other i would support swindon without a doubt.

in terms of attendance i have been to OT around 20 times but with swindon 300+. my conscious is clean and i know it would come with dis-agreement but different eras of growing up i suppose. 

in answer to the OP it would be devastating and I would support a phoenix club into back into the league where possible but it would still depend on the standard of football if we started at the very very bottom and where i could gain the same feeling of attachment and support. 

Heaven forbid I would ever have to face this situation, but I couldn't live without football.  I spent most of last year in the North West during the week & travelling home at weekends.  Watched midweek games at Accrington, Blackburn & Preston quite regularly just for the experience of live football.  I've now moved to Norfolk & if I had to find another fix, I'd probably watch Kings Lynn, although Norwich is quite close, not sure I'd ever be a proper supporter though.

I'd be a general armchair PL fan and watch non-league football local to me - probably at Cheshunt or Enfield.

My local team, Woodford Town, are finally moving back to the borough and will play 5 mins round the corner but the level (county league) is too low.

I fully understand that, when I was a youngster I had Liverpool as my 2nd team, as you say at school everyone had to have a "good team" to support as well as Swindon, they had a good side and played great football with Daglish, Souness, Clemence etc and I used to enjoy watching the highlights on MOTD, games were never shown live back then except for the FA Cup Final, it wasn't the same as the flooded TV channels now.

Most of my mates even now in their early 50s are still Liverpool and Swindon supporters and they still go to games at Anfield (something I never did) but as I left school in 82 I realised I had no affiliation with Liverpool and stopped following them totally and have never followed any other side since.

I told my eldest son to have 2 teams as I didn't want him having the disappointment of just watching Town, so he chose Man Utd as well as Swindon but he now follows them more than us.

I just couldn't, too old now to start following another team and with my health declining I have no urge to watch my local sidesin person at Yeovil, Chard, Axminster or Taunton if it came down to it.

Saturdays would become empty though.

I am the same. I have always liked Liverpool and will go up 4/5 time s a season, weirdly though i will not shout about it from the roof tops and you will never see me publicly tweeting about them. It's swindon all the way the there is no competition at all

Closet Liverpool fans in their 50s shocker.

Closet cunt shocker.

I wouldn't call him a closet cunt. I think it's been in the open for a long time now.

:Ride On Fatbury's Lovestick:

If Swindon disappeared, I don't think I'd bother watching football again. I didn't even watch football until I was 20 and at that point Swindon were my first and only club.

QPR when little as dad supported them. Swindon since 9 or 10. Follow Malaga here. They’ve just ended all financial gloom and are finally free of a corrupt sheik.

Not planning on visiting uk anytime soon but watch every week on ifollow. Would be fucking distraught if we went bust.

Given where I am located, I took the approach of getting behind the local MLS team - they started off pretty darned well, seems I have infected them now though.  Atlanta Utd.  Sat behind a Millwall fan for one game, proper old boy fan who looked quite funny in his Atlanta Utd garb shouting Facking Cant out loud.

Growing up in Scotland I got this a fair bit. Who do you support? "Swindon", but what premier/big team do you follow? "uh, I don't". I ended up vaguely following Aston Villa as my fake big team just as everyone else was supporting Man U. I've just never seen the attraction of just randomly picking a big team but each to their own.

That said, my Scottish team is Hearts and the only season I had a season ticket at Tynecastle they split the old firm in the league and won the Scottish Cup. So you could say I'm a glory hunter!

Fortuna Düsseldorf.

Supporting a PL team is always a bit of an armchair experience for most. Imagine if you actually came from Liverpool or Manchester and they were your local side, but struggled to get match tickets because of ST holders from Hertfordshire.

Oxford for me, just up the road.

You can watch them at Bassett in the FA Cup this Saturday. But remember to get a ticket in advance in person.
You'll have to be in the home end though.

Follow the yellow prick road  ;D

In that case I'm stuck with a choice of Bristol Rovers or FGR.

Those cases are very few and far between and tbh when it happens it's because the season ticket has been passed down through the families. It is a known fact that when a liverpool fan dies they don't inform the club and keep it within the family

As a kid I had a fleeting liking for many different clubs for some reason, including: Coventry City, Spurs, Norwich, Man Utd, etc.

If the worst was to happen, i'd probably lose all interest in football.
If a Phoenix club was to emerge then maybe it might rekindle my interest.

I have never understood the affinity someone would show to a town or city club that they have absolutely no connection to, it's purely down to the "my team is better than your team" bollocks taken from childhood into adulthood. If that floats your boat then crack on.

I get that but if you live somewhere that doesn’t have a professional team particularly close, like I did as a kid, you are probably naturally going to chose a big team as a kid you may have no connection to. When you reach adulthood you aren’t going to then stop supporting them.

I could have easily fallen into this trap as most of friends did, thankfully despite having zero link to Swindon my old man randomally took me to a Town game as a kid and the rest is history

Think everyone has different reasons for initial attraction when they are very young, when I was a kid up to probably teens I had a thing for Chelsea, this was based upon nothing more than when I started primary school I had to have a football shirt to play football in and when we went to Giles in Carterton they only had Chelsea and Swansea in my size and my mum thought that blue would show the dirt less than white, plus I quite liked blue! No glory hunting there, they were generally sit in the 80's.

Then my old man (who did and still does follow Town without really following them since the late 40's) took me to a Swindon Chelsea Simod cup game and I really enjoyed it and the atmosphere as we were obviously in the home end and that was that (incidentally he also took me to see Oxford Chelsea at the Manor and I hated it!).

Its been town ever since, albeit had a couple of seasons regularly watching non-league (Gateshead and then Lancaster City) when I have lived in those places, I would probably continue that albeit we don't really have a local non-league side since Barrow hit the big time.

As for what I would do I am probably in a different boat to many insofar as I am 200 odd miles away and only see at best 2 games a season in northern outposts, thus the loss would be terrible but I suspect nowhere near as bad as it would be for those invested on a day by day or weekly local basis. I would support any phoenix club, who would still be my main club.

As for the PL Newcastle have been my second side since I lived up there albeit that is waining somewhat with the whining of theeir fans about not being able to be taken over by an oppressive regime!)

Nice piece here about the joy of Scottish football grounds, which applies pretty well across the border...

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2020/oct/01/the-joy-of-seeing-a-football-stadium-for-the-first-time

I couldn't support another club

I have visited every top 4 division grounds (and many Highland and Lowland grounds too) in Scotland, albeit not to actually watch games, I have only attended about 15 Scottish games in total.

The lower league grounds are on a par with the facilities at such places as Melksham or even Taunton.

Even Ochilview?

Of course! my best mates wife comes from Larbert, not been inside there yet but have been there :)

You could have worded that a bit better!

I went with a 'mate' from Wakefield who supported Berwick Rangers. I vaguely remember playing pool in the Stenhousemuir supporters clubs before the game. Friendly place.

Oh I wouldnt want to go "inside" her :D

I actually like Falkirk, the place is a bit of a dump in the main but TBH when you get outside of Glasgow and some parts of Edinburgh the natives are actually a pretty friendly bunch, as I know you are well aware.

Hardly any decent grounds left this side of the border now, Scottish grounds are far better these days.  Very few IKEA standard builds, lots of old dirty historical unique proper grounds.

Done a few over the years. QOS and Morton are favourites that spring to mind

My affinity to Liverpool was a weird one to be honest. I was a Swindon fan already i had been going for 5 years as a kid. It just seemed to me that everything bad that was happening in the world seemed to be happening to people of Liverpool ,Hillsborough, the James Bulger killing. I went up to the memorial with a family member and just loved the City weirdly . I agree to a certain extent what you say about some fans being like that but there are fans of Swindon who are not from here so i am not sure the my club is better than your club can be thrown at all those types of supporters

I can confirm I'm a misery hunter

My best mate is a season ticket holder at St Johnstone, I have been with him a few times there and that is about as close to an Ikea build as you get up there, the only other one I can think of off the top of my head is Falkirk but thats not half finished, or possibly Hibs ground but that has a bit of character (sorry Bob!)

East Fife is brilliant! what a view...
(https://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2013/09/05/article-2412234-1BA2F2CD000005DC-424_634x430.jpg)

So why are there hardly any fans of clubs like Dover or Northwich from outside their respective catchment areas, around the country/globe? It's down to wanting to support a club that's successful on the pitch. Hence the phrase glory hunter.

:bye:

What happened to the Norway Reds?  :)

Still going. And Swindon Town Brasil. See them both on Twitter from time to time

I was Liverpool mad when I was a young kid and had all the kit, scarves, hats etc. They were the best side in the country and on the TV regularly so they were my team in primary school. That changed as soon as I went to the county ground and Swindon took over.

I couldn't call myself a fan nowadays as I've not been to a game for a few years. I'd be sad for others if the town were no more as I've been there where the club was very important to me but personally I wouldn't be losing anything now as I have the memories of my time at football and nothing can change that. I've pretty much given up on football already. I'll watch the odd game on TV but ain't fussed at all. The game has been ruined in my opinion.

This is pretty much me as well to be honest. Another poster asked how you can just stop liking football, but I think its definitely possible. The game has totally changed beyond all recognition since I've got older, and not for the better in my opinion.

I think the actual quality of the player has got better but most players seem to be athletes first and footballers 2nd.

I don't enjoy football even half as much now as I did when I used to go to every game home and away year in year out in the mid 80s when ironically the football on show was awful in comparison.

I don't enjoy watching Premier League football much TBH, theres just little to entertain me despite the quality of the players/grounds/football on show etc. again this could be because I don't give a shit about the teams competing.

Just curious, but what is it that's ruined it for you (and Arriba)?

That is a bit extreme though isn't it? That is just normal. You are technically a glory supporter yourself then on that basis

I do live in Swindon though.

The Lilywhites first for me  ;)

Yeah, a bit extreme but there will always be a few exceptions of course.

I really couldn't put my finger on anything specific to be honest Paul, I wonder whether its because going to football, or even watching a game of football when I was younger was exciting, as it happened once a week for 9 months of the year. Even when I was in my twenties I enjoyed going to the pub to watch games with my mates.

Aside from the once a month or so visit to the CG with my dad, I'm just not bothered anymore. Perhaps its because I don't have any kids and so I don't have anything to try and impart the 'magic' of the game to, who knows. Or maybe its because there is so much football and its so readily available?

Sorry that's probably quite a woolly response, but its really difficult to put into words.

Is the Swindon / Liverpool connection something that isn't subliminal like playing in red?

STFC's lack of cup runs in recent years will have diminished the number of transients living in the town who might otherwise haved liked the flavour of the club in a "I'm Swindon til I move" style.

I think if you don't attend every week you do drift away as a whole, life gets in the way and you get other priorities exacerbated in our case by the fact that Swindon have rather bumbled along for years.

My FIL is a Liverpool supporter and thus as you can imagine rather enthused at the moment, he will regularly come round and first question will be did you see the game last night. Answer 9 times out of 10 is no and in probably 5 times out of 10 I didn't know who was playing nor what the score is.

I must confess I watch much more cycling these days. 

I probably watch football on the tv as much as Rugby or Gaelic football these days.

Now you've gone too far

The bastardisation of the beautiful game.

The demise of the art of defending. The ridiculous amounts of money paid for and paid to footballers. VAR. The God awful women's game. The pundits. And just prefering to do other things.
I don't hate the game and still enjoy it to a point but can take it or leave it nowadays.

Not sure its the demise of the art, more the demise of the ability to defend. You are damned if you do and damned if you don't these days. You have a player running towards you really fast, now if you remotely touch them they will fall over and you give away a free kick so what are defenders supposed to do.

It really winds me up everyone getting all a lather about that goal that Giggs scored way back against Arsenal? in the cup, making out its some sort of wonder goal, he basically ran very fast and then dared anyone to tackle him when he got into the area, Ronaldo (the abs obsessed one not the fat one) is exactly the same.

Giggs starts his run by the half way line.
Absolutely no reason to not cynically take him down there, aside from the fact you can’t get near him.

My perspective is that of an older fan.

I may have drifted away for several months from time to time in my life.  I sometimes find myself staring, daydreaming at the weather over the downland from the Arkells these days.  My mind might wander off to us winning the Champions League after a shock FA Cup win and qualification for and winning of the Europa Cup.  Loving the despair of the big sponsors and the mainstream media.  I glance back down at the pitch and see Fittonball and the wind tunnel and wonder why I am at the CG.   But I'll be back passionately roaring "Get it forwaaard" or some such minutes later.

And I recall that our unfashionable club (I love us being unfashionable) really did reach the Premier League.  Really did win the League Cup.  And does have a certain reputation, good and bad, amongst other fans who actually go to matches in the EFL.  Costanza's wonderful oral history of the club  :clap: has recently helped me to appreciate what a rich experience I have  been privileged to enjoy as an STFC fan.  Through both thick and thin.  It is precious and irreplaceable.  

I once shed a tear for the generations of STFC fans whose support never witnessed the dream of attaining the Premiership.  But we have all had one hell of a journey.  Individual and shared.  We are a special group.  A Phoenix would re-emerge, I'm sure, however hard or comical the journey.  The thought of a future generation enjoying success and glory and roaring on the Town would be enough.

In contrast, the branding of the Premiership and its clubs these days however make support as banal as saying I've always been a BMW man and boasting that my current vehicle won the Car of the Year. award at a motor show.  Or trying to share in the glory when your dream actor/tress wins an Oscar.  All gratifying experiences but all ersatz by comparison.

Yep..I agree with this. Any of that Arsenal side would have taken one for the team and brought him down if they could. Not like they didn't put it about then.

That was kind of the point I was making, on that basis Alan O'Brien was a world class player!

That's brilliantly put, RedRag

Well said RedRag.

He was in that Exeter home gane 8)

So, how/why do clubs, including our own, still go about their business as if nothing had changed?

I honestly don’t get it. I thought a few clubs would have gone bust by now.

It's what that Like button is needed for.  :thumb:

Living off advanced TV money and solidarity payments from the PL I guess.
Christmas or early in the new year might be the tipping point for some clubs.

We've answered this a few times now. The Premier League advanced the normal "solidarity payments" they make to the league during the course of the season. They made the August payment early to get clubs through the summer, then also brought forward what would normally be the Jan payment. That's what clubs are living off now. But with no other income, it won't last long, certainly not till January. And of course, come January, even the prudent clubs are fucked

Still doesn’t explain why very few, if any, clubs are cutting back substantially enough to fend off the coming financial tsunami- they’re still behaving as if nothing changed.

Reckon we’re on a lower budget than last season?

I think there's probably a few that are, behind the scenes. So, for example, the PoF pod reckoned that the PFA have claimed that lots of players have "COVID clauses" in their contracts i.e. we'll pay you £x per week, but if fans aren't back by October/Nov/Dec, then that drops to £y, and if it's BCD all season it drops again to £z, as much as 50% reductions. And there will be some clubs that are just banking on some kind of bail-out coming from govt/PL/combination thereof. Let's face it, there's plenty of clubs that have been running on "shit or bust" financial policies for years. Why would COVID make them change?