Thetownend.com

http://www.swindonadvertiser.co.uk/news/4575320.Eyes_down_for_live_music_at_former_bingo_hall/?ref=mr

We can put that one to bed now then can't we

not impressed really.i was hoping for an improvement on the oasis,this wont be that.

Bit small... still wish the Mechanics could be turned into one.

 Good news..this has been in the ether for some time and would be a decent addition to the Swindon scene.

great location for it.

You talk about it being small? But its got to be twice the size of Bristol Carling Academy, and 4 times the size of the Oxford one?

Bollocks, I wanted Wembley Arena to be taken down and rebuilt on the Front Garden. Damn those pesky newts...

Seconded, just hope it gets some good acts and gets used.

Really? I've never been inside, it just looks a bit pokey. In that case, I'm all for it.

Well it used to be a 1300 seat cinema. Ive only seen pictures of the inside.

But Ive been to Oxford and Bristol academies and that is what I would estimate?

Had to laugh at this comment: "Good news but traffic passing outside will have to watch for people crossing the road in an unlawful place ie straight across the road from the Swindon Library side."

Sounds good to me. I've no idea what the aforementioned 'academies' hold but the article says this would hold about 1200 people. How many do they get into the Oasis, as a kind of guideline?

Looks like I might have been over optimistic?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Academy_Music_Group

The Oxford one is well poky though. I rekon 600 would be a better bet than 1350!

The main bit of the O*frod one is just over a thousand...then there's a smaller bit upstairs.

Bit off topic, but outside of wandering down the motorway, is it it possible to cross the road unlawfully in Britain?

Bristol Academy is 1600, Oxford academy 1200 in their main rooms.  Ill do a bit of digging but I dont think Academy Music Group will be behind it.

I prefer smaller venues, you get a far better atmosphere - I always find the Oasis a bit sterile no matter who is performing there. Nouvelle Vague at the Oxford Academy was probably the best gig I've ever been to, mainly due to the atmosphere, partly due to me wanting to shag their lead singer.

That's exactly what I thought until in the article the estimate of capacity is 1,000-1,200, which would be around the size of the largest room in the Oxford Academy and a bit smaller than Bristol Academy.

Still it's good news, I don't know why some people are being so miserable.

Because it's something new and something new means the people od Swindon have to find the most stupid thing they can think of to comlain about it.

I think it's a great idea and a must have for Swindon. It will run along the lines of The Academy venues probably attracting signed acts that are not quite big enough to play The Oasis/Bigger venues. Let's hope SBC don't fuck this one up.

I think sometimes we expect a bit too much from Swindon. It's really not got much going for it at the moment in the way of rejuvination and buzz. Anything half decent is good.

The new library isn't sensational but compared to the old one it is. I think a bit of perspective is needed.

Good points Onion,lets be honest with the crap venues we have here weve got some good bands here the last year...would be great to have a decent venue and attract some more.

Oasis now has a capacity of 3000 for a standing concert and as a result is getting the bigger names in (even if the acoustics leave a bit to be desired). The next step up in capacity for these sort of venues jumps up to 7000+ in places like the NIA in Brum.
Swindon would do very well to have an 'academy' that can at least match or better others like Scumford. The question as often is the case is can the public in Swindon support this sort of venue without having to pander to middle of the road entertainment ?

I wouldn't say we had crap venues. We just don't have a venue big enough (excluding the Oasis) to host regular gigs with some decent up and coming signed acts.

The 12 Bar has attracted some decent bands but not on a regular basis because it's capacity is only 350

having thought about it a bit,i think a venue like this would be good.there is deffo a need for a place like this in swinetown.that said, i reckon a purpose built major venue would do wonders for the town.scrap the fucking canal idea and get that here instead

Saw The Damned in there.......good fun.

I think is exactly the right size for a Swindon Gig venue and in a perfect location.

its what swindon has needed for 30+ years. brilliant news. lets hope you get a good promoter in there.

another plus for the town.madness are playing at the oasis in december.

Just saw that in the Gig thread,ill be there 8)

It will be a pretty useful place as there is an upstair's balcony kind of thing,enough room to have a bar and sell food etc

I had many good night's in the old mecca and won a fair bit of cash in the past,shame it had to close down,but im glad to see it's going be put to good use rather than bulldozed.

Or the town could go really crazy and do both.

Now we need a few people or companies to take a gamble on opening some decent restaurants/cafes in Theatre Square and Regent Circus area, not pubs though.  Try and bring the area up a little.  What with the Theatre and Swindon School of Dance in the same area there should be a real push to get supporting businesses to move in.  See if Mr Holmes fancies opening a new musical instrument shop up there (Reduced rates maybe), and independent record store if possible, a shop or two selling theatrical stuff, get the local groups to put some street performances on etc

And visit Birmingham and check out the Symphony Hall, walk along the canal to the NIA and go - hang on, this works.  Ok, maybe we would need to keep it a bit smaller in size, but the concept is there and it works a treat.

All those would be quality. It's what the town needs. Sod all this extra shop lark. We need to get a hot bed for culture and arts going. It's why places like Oxford are a much better proposition for business.

I think what the last few posts have demonstrated is the ability of one notable development to attract others.  The new music venue - if handled sensibly - will act as a catalyst for other developments which, in time, could really bring the centre of town up.

A few more ideas...

(1)  Build a fucking university.  Not something in a field, 4 miles away on the edge of town.  A town centre university...complete with lots of centrally located students who will want to spend time at the new music venue.

(2)  And yes...build the fucking canal as well.  With a little imagination, this could transform the town centre for the better.  It will cost a bit, but things that are worth having generally do.

This will probably sound a bit, "yeah i know people and stuff," but i don't. Regardless, since it closed a couple of mates wanted to open it as a live music venue, but being poor as church mice I think the idea went out of the Window. Either that or they've talked parents into re-mortgaging and have managed to keep this completely under their hats for the past few years.

Obviously it's not them, but if it's a success no doubt they'll be kicking themselves for not forcing the issue with parents and what not!

me too. They've put on a good show both times I've seen them

Carry a couple of guns, and a nicked stereo under one arm and a big bag of crack under the other. That should do it

Not to get to technical on legal stuff, and I'm in no way a qualified lawyer, but I'm pretty sure that in the above scenario it wouldn't be the 'crossing the road' which would be the unlawful part of the actions committed.

Wikipedia knows all:

In England and Wales it is legal to cross all roads except motorways, where pedestrians and slow vehicles are not permitted. The Highway Code contains additional rules for crossing a road safely, but these are recommendations and not legally enforceable, although as with other advisory parts of the Highway Code compliance or otherwise can be used to establish liability in civil law proceedings such as insurance claims. The term "jaywalking" is little used and not very well known, except amongst some young people from American TV.

Fair point. Bet you'd still get nicked though

Although apparently you could cross the road naked in Trafralgar Square without fear of getting nicked as long as you called yourself "art":

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/8233636.stm

Try doing that in Swindon, see how far you get

Wikipedia knows fuck all. Last time I checked it was perfectly legal to cross a motorway on a footbridge.

How many gigs a year do you think the place will have to hold to make it viable?

They should subsidise the turnover by running bingo nights.

If its an academy it will run club nights on friday and saturdays as well and they'll expect it to be used 6 nights a week either for gigs or clubs.

Any chance we could get Paul McCartney and his band on opening night ?

yeah, if you want the place to be empty! :soapy tit wank:

How about XTC's first stage performance for 28 years?

This is very good news for Swindon. 1000-1200 is a really good size for a venue, hopefully it will attract some decent bands.

Agreed. I think the canal, if done properly and not on the cheap, could be excellent.

How big is Brixton in comparison with Bristol??

Significantly different.

Brixton is 4923.  Roughly.  Bristol is 1600.  Birmingham is 3000.  What other ones do you want.

Why hasn't someone added a reference to Swindon on this?

Brixton seems really small when you're in it. weird.

Balcony holds about 1300 of them.

I forgot is was so steeply sloped as well, until you walk out.

Its a damn good work out if your at a dance type night there.  I remember my first visit was a megadog clubnight allnighter.  The calves were burning that night.  Probably.

Actually I cant remember I was bollocksed.

I can't help but think that this new venture will fail unceremoniously. Having seen the likes of the Damned, Clash, XTC et al at The Affair; Talking Heads & Dire Straits at the Oasis; Wishbone Ash & Judas Priest at the Wyvern; Boomtown Rats & Ultravox at the Brunel Rooms....I have to conclude that there is a degree of apathy with regard to live music in Swindon, and indeed elsewhere. All those gigs were under-attended, despite there being the right-sized venue for the 'right-sized' band. Hmmm...1300 capacity in a big city can be calculated to sell out, but I'm afraid not in a town the size of Swindon. Morrissey could fill the Oasis several times over, yet he prefers smaller venues. Madness will struggle. I wish this new venue the best of luck, but in this day and age, where even the smaller artists demand extortionate fees, the proprietors will really have to get their calculations right in an era when the appetite for live music is deteriorating.

I really don't think the appetite for live music is deteriorating at all.

Well all the other bands that have played the Oasis recently have sold out and im pretty sure Madness will.Although £35 for a gig in some Badmington Courts strikes me as insanely over priced.

I was really tempted to go to Madness, i don't really like them in all honesty, but I bet they're good live. But £36 a ticket put me right off.

The appetite for live music is certainly not deteriorating to any significant degree.  Im still pretty busy working in that sector.  Last year I did 175 gigs, this year will probably be 160, the reduction being purely in the fact that big promoters (SJM / Live Nation / AEG) are not taking as many risks as they have done in recent years, however that just means smaller promoters (such as academy music group and local promoters, people I dont work for.  Boo!) are picking up higher profile shows than they have previously done.  The shows still happen.  And with the way record companies are operating, live (and merch) is increasingly a vital revenue stream for a band trying to survive.

The truth is that it would surprise me if an academy happened in Swindon.  Its just not high enough profile.  Whilst currently Swindon is a favorite place to put gigs, I dont imagine it staying so.  One of the promoters I spoke to about it compared it to Lincoln.  No one went there for years, then they put some shows on and found it was the biggest and quickest seller on the tour.  But once the novelty wears off and shows sell slightly less quickly the promoters really get the jitters quickly and pull out.  Lincoln however hasn't really dropped off because there is nothing around it.  Swindon has pox one way, bristol another, there is a lot of competition for the shows.

Il be very interested to find out who has put the bid together and see the business plans.  If it relies on gigs then they are screwed as there are months (January, July, August, start of september, start of feb, end of december) when they'll be luck to get any shows.  A business cant lie fallow for more than a quarter of a year and survive.  Clubs will have to be the backbone of the business and I don't know how feasible clubnights are at that site.

Sorry, that was all quite rambling!

wasnt rambling at all, was spot on, if anyone hears who is behind it, drop me a line as i would be very interested in doing a club night there...

And if anyone hears who's behind it let me know as well as Im fed up of being freelance and want a bloody job that pays guaranteed money every month!

Umm, a clubnight could work, its decent sized from the outset, and it's not to far in the bottom of town so it would work. Rudi's next door will do a roaring trade too.

It would take a lot of work tho, and you ahve to ask is there a market in swindon for a dedicated club night, Because Brunel went under purely for the fact that the like of Gatecrasher and Hed Kandi didnt do that great there!

  I certainly do. Years ago university Student Unions would host 'known' bands every week. Other local venues would do likewise : the evidence is there that they have all cut back on gigs because market forces have dictated it. I've recently seen two bands who, in their heyday, would have filled a sizeable venue...UK Subs and Climax Blues Band. Despite not being 'contemporary' bands, they still could not even fill a small pub. Having said that, if Madness (who came to the fore 30 years ago) can sell-out a 3,000 capacity venue at £35 a shot then I would be astounded.

 Haha. Did you ever go to Bingley Hall, Stafford ? It was once one of the biggest venues in the country but was, in fact...an indoor cattle market. Try watching Fleetwood Mac while the odour of cowshit was wafting around the arena !

I think I'm right in saying the Oasis has managed to sell out quite a few gigs, and I suppose it doesn't have to sell out, just make a profit.

Well they still do, so nothing has changed there.

What evidence? I went to university in Cardiff, there would be major bands/djs playing pretty much every day, often several gigs on one day. The student union hosted a major band or dj at least as frequently as once a week. That's because those bands just aren't as popular as they used to be, not because no-one goes to gigs any more. Reading/Leeds and Glastonbury both sold out very quickly this year, even in a recession - live music is as popular as ever, if not more.

  Erm...a known band at least once a week ? I'm afraid they don't...at least not to the extent they used to. The 'risk factor' is too great and 'club nights' have become not only more popular, but more economically viable.

Yes they do. You might not know the bands because they don't appeal to you but they do appeal to students and most gigs sell out or are very popular.

Just checked Cardiff student unions upcoming gigs and they have

Chase and Status
Deadmau5
the Noisettes
Bat For Lashes
Tinchy Stryder
Scratch Perverts, Skream, Caspa and Andy C
Simian Mobile Disco
Frank Turner
Biffy Clyro
Mr Scruff
Babyshambles
White Lies

booked so far for the first two months of the autumn semester and they won't have booked all the bands yet. All of those are well known bands.

  Firstly, I would draw a distinction between a live band and a dj. Cardiff may have been generous to you but isn't the norm. SU Ents commitees have cut back on live bands because they are not viable, even though the bands may be available. Secondly, Reading/Leeds/Glasto can't really be entered into the equation since the 'festival experience' is unique in it's own right and actually a growth area.

I think it varies from Uni to Uni. Cardiff have a very impressive line up, but I've just had a look a Bath, where I'm going and there's one live band scheduled for October (Kid British) and none yet for November. I hope they get more closer to the time, but much of the SU schedule is parties, discos et al.

Cardiff have been good for live stuff for ages, most other unis are nowhere near.

It depends on the uni and the city, Brighton and sussex put on fuck all down here as there are promoters in the city that put on gigs.

 ''All those are well known bands'' ? Huh ? Are you having a fucking giraffe. I've heard of five of them ; do they get any airtime on radio ? Let me make a comparison with Keele University 1981/82 : Hawkwind, Simple Minds, Altered Images, UB40, Gary Glitter, U2, Slade. Others I have forgotten. They are what I would call known bands, with at least some charting history !

hahahaha hammer you old cunt.

Maybe your knowledge of music was better in 81/82 than it is now?

  Fair comment. But I think if you compare the calibre of the aforementioned bands then maybe the definition of a 'known' band has changed.

Serious question as I'm not old enough, how well know were those bands at the time? Obviously a lot of them (notably U2) have become huge but were they that big at the time? Who knows, some of the Cardiff Bands might be U2 level massive bands in 20 years time.

I think the way that bands are known has probably changed a fair bit. A big selling single, an appearance on top of the pops and a bit of radio play has gone the way of VHS and Casette Tapes. I'm guessing that most of the people BWB listed have had a fairly high ranking top 40 album, and the ones which haven't are probably quite well known in there own dance/dnb/whatever circles.

 The likes of Slade, Gary Glitter, Hawkwind & UB40 had all previously scored in the singles & album charts. Altered Images were at no.2 in the singles chart. Simple Minds had already released 4 albums and were on the up. U2 had released their first album 'Boy' and were regarded as a biggish band. So...all quite well known really.

Glitter was a huge fan of 'Boy', apparently

         
  I understand that. Yet surely a big selling single or radio/tv exposure is paramount to popularity. Reverting to the origins of this thread, popularity within a small circle or niche will not fill a 1300 capacity venue whereas a more general popularity would at least give it a chance.

For once I agree with BWB, however on that list I have genuinely heard of 6 of those bands. Actually 7, I have heard of the scratch perverts.

Surely the point here is that Swindon is getting a concert hall of decent size that could host some decent quality bands or club nights as required, even if that market may be a little depressed right now (or not, who really knows without some numbers).  The Oasis is doing well enough to draw in decent bands in the past 12 months and the next 6 months at least, which must have given some confidence that the area can support this.  We seem to be hitting a point where the economy has stopped getting worse so in about 18 months/2years time we should see growth that we can feel in our pockets again, by which time we'll have this place set-up and ready.

Who really gives a fuck whether Slade will play it or not?

Fair point, the comparisons of gigs in Autumn in Cardiff 2009 and Keele University 81/82 is getting a bit off topic.

But it does raise the point on whether or not Swindon can support gigs which have a more specialised appeal. This new place isn't going to get the likes of the bands which have been playing the Oasis every month. It's all well and good selling out for The Kings of Leon or whatever other middle of the road radio 1/2 band is playing, but it's going to have to do some good business on other bookings.

Edit: On top of pulling off some decent club nights as was mentioned earlier.

  Generally agree. Ever since the Who played the Locarno, Swindon has always struggled to attract bands which could entertain a full house, so artists with a more specialised appeal don't stand a chance. 'Club nights' and other forms of non-mainstream entertainment would help balance the books but...guess what...the proprietors would look at the less profitable aspects. Hey presto...no more live music. Swindon has always been pretty non-descript : the western expansion, influx of cocknies & plastic moonrakers, as well as the establishment of poncy new housing estates has done nothing to help the town centre. Never has done, never will do.

Like I said before Hammer, you aren't the target market, most students will know the majority of those bands and I would bet a lot of those gigs sell out, which is the important thing. Personally I would say this line-up is a hell of a lot better than the Keele one but Gary Glitter and UB40 aren't the kind of gigs I would be interested in.

The other thing to remember is the really huge bands don't play the student union because it's not big enough, Kasabian, Muse and Lily Allen will just play the CIA instead because they can sell that out and the union would sell out immediately. However in that list Tinchy Stryder has had two number one singles and a number 2 album, Biffy Clyro have had a top 5 single and a number 2 album, Skream had a very well known remix of a number 2 song (in for the kill), babyshambles have had top 5 albums and singles, bat for lashes has a top 5 album and White Lies have had a number one album so however you define a "known band", these bands qualify.

It's true that the smaller universities won't have as many big name bands playing but I think a lot of the bigger universities which have decent sized venues will.

If Swindon could attract even half of those bands it would be a huge improvement.

Hammer,

What is a "plastic moonraker"?  ???

Its what the sleezy guys buy in the Devizes sex shop.

 Someone who thinks they are a true Wiltshireman with accompanying heritage, then finds out their parents moved here from London or Milton Keynes. Or Oxford.

Funny that.  I'd have said one of the reasons the town has failed to attract much in the way of investment recently is the near absence of a middle class, affluent population.  When I was working in Swindon 10+ years ago, there were plenty of middle/senior managers earning a good salary.  But almost exclusively they would travel in from the Cotswolds, Bath or Bristol.  I'm not too sure where these 'poncey' housing estates are that you're talking about.  Bristol has many, as do Bath, Oxford and Reading.  Swindon?  There are many areas of decent housing, but for a town of its size the notably affluent areas are very thin on the ground.

The Bramptons :D

       
  Good God man. I made no reference to affluence or the class system. When I lived in Swindon 30 years ago places such as Freshbrook and Nythe etc were green fields. People (and businesses) were encouraged to move to Swindon as people naturally aspire to improve their lives. Hence the western expansion. Hence that horrible expression 'credit crunch'. People living beyond their means, encouraged by housing developers. They have made no contribution to the town of Swindon, they wear Arsenal/Chelsea/Manure shirts. Fuck the lot of them.

Hammer as a veteran of running 2 student unions that have done lots of live music I feel I have to chip in.

In the late 80's many student unions did indeed do many gigs.  But during the 90's there was a massive change in student union management and ethos.  Unfortunately they became businesses. Universities demanded that they become viable and able to run themselves without significant investment from the university who were busily turning themselves into businesses rather than services.

As such the unions saw that having a live venue didn't make them much cash.  Typically the cash split between bands and venues was that the band would have a guaranteed fee and then 80% of what was left.   With more dance meaning less interest at that time for live bands, unions had to make the decision to concentrate on non live music.  A major fuck up on union managers part was to split the union departments (bars seperate from ents) and not take into account that the union was making a small fortune over the bar even if they did lose on the door money.  

In the meantime several ex entertainment people from student unions developed companies (the largest of them being SJM and Metropolis).  They then started promoting the gigs that the unions used to do themselves.  They often used the union venues, but with less of the venues being suitable for live (as they'd turned themselves into discos) they had to find other places to do it.  Essentially because of this the student union circuit died.  A few unions still have the live music (Norwich UEA, Manchester, Cardiff, Sheffield) and a couple have had the foresight to make a live commitment to live (Preston and Lincoln notable successfully).

Basically the unions fucked up and lost commitment to live.  It was taken up by the people who had  left unions (I fucked off from my first union, demontfort in Leicester, when they didnt take my advice on a new build and ended up with a disco with a massive bar in the middle of it and no stage.)  However the lack of a union circuit doesn't mean that live music is dying.  Its just moved to different venues.  I did 100 gigs at Demontfort Union from 95 - 2000, 100 at ULU in half that time however in the 8 months I ran Islington academy we were open doing live stuff 4 night a week.  

Live is still there, and its certainly not going away.

On another note, cardiff is a shit venue, terrible to work, and that'll be one where the academy music group go next because they know thats the case.

Here endeth the lesson.

 Thankyou Nasher. Why didn't you say that in the first bleedin place. In other words, Students Unions, don't currently provide the same platform for bands as they used to (barring a few exceptions). Simply because, compared to other similar forms of entertainment, it isn't viable. Don't mention Cardiff !

on a football related note, I was in the same line of work as Mr Nash for many years and had great fun once defaceing (sp) the oxford venues changing rooms on cowley road with much stfc grafitti. childish yes, satisfying? absolutely.

I know...I went off on a bit of a tangent there.  (Welcome to he TEF.)  I agree with a lot of what you say - and particularly the bit about living beyond your means - but stereotyping can sometimes go too far.  We were one of the early families that moved to West Swindon in 1982.  (I was 9.)  Very few connections with the area before that.  Nearly 30 years later, my two brothers, a sister and I are all huge Town fans and I'll be damned if my one year old (who doesn't live in Swindon and probably never will) isn't either when the time comes.

Unless Im being massively blindsided on this, its not going to be an academy venue.

I have heard its a private affair, which probably means without instant success its fucked.

True...but in truth it will be an instant success.

Id agree with you there.  With the major promoters part owning venues in bristol and oxford its difficult to see why they would put any gigs into somewhere that they wont get the beer money as well.  Unless there is a strong local promoter I dont know about I cant see it being hugely busy.

Baths shit for live music. I think they put on two gigs last year - The King blues and the twang. we had mystery jets and the wombats during freshers week/end of year ball, but other than that there were two gigs in the whole year

That suprises me...thaught it would be a hotbed.

Oooooh i forgot we had the automatic and dan le sac too. Thats 4!!!

I don't know whether bath spa had any more though

Barry If you know the people and they need a club night tell them im sniffing....

Bath generally is ok though, probably why there isn't much on at the uni.

Aye moles has had some big names in the past. Didn't have much on last year though

I once saw The Undertones in Bath, at some sort of shed in or near the Rec.

It was mid summer and so hot in the place that they only played about 4 numbers and gave up....nobody much complained as lightweights were passing out and stuff.

that was probably the pavillion.  they still do gigs.  Generally have about 2.  1 warmup for glastonbury and enter shikari as their agent lives in bath!  Moles seems to have disappeared to have dissapeared a bit from the toilet circuit it used to be on.  many of those small venues are to be honest

Perhaps they've gone underground?



It's alright, I've already got me coat....

For a jam session...

gnasher...the Pavilion rings a bell.

pavillion is a cracking venue, as was the bierkellar in bristol, i saw some fantastic bands there.

The Bierkeller still exists.