The Spirit of '69 and our Day of Action

[Bob's Orange]

Our admin expenses might be in line with other clubs (I doubt it though) but are those other clubs also operating their football team & off field operations on a shoe string budget with people doing multiple jobs whilst also not stocking the club shop or the food kiosks & not paying any invoices from suppliers on time?

Even if our finances are actually a 100% accurate (I don’t for one second think they are) then there are still massive questions as to why we are being run so poorly in comparison to all the other clubs making similar yearly losses.

Also, just because other clubs are doing it, isn't necessarily a valid reason for us to be doing it also.

Everyone here is concerned about STFC and how's its being run. Sure, sometimes it's helpful to have a benchmark, but I'm pretty sure using Gresley Rovers or Bristol Manor Farm as that benchmark isn't helpful for a league 2 club that's got aims of getting higher.

[Posh Red]

Why do you think that is happening? Are Swindons admin expenses out of line with other clubs? I very much doubt it apart from this year, which has a very specific reason behind it.

From our last accounts our Cost of Sales (the costs of running the business we presume) is over £4.5m, which was up 16% on the previous year.
The admin fees (less the figure for the JV) was £2.5m (more than 50% of the cost of running the business) and up 8% on the previous year.

Now I think most would expect some form of admin expenses, but that does seem excessive and with no idea what they are it's difficult to make a confident statement.

The fact that we know our ownership team are somewhat relaxed with being truthful, it does make you immediately err on the side of something being not good.

[Ƭ̵̬̊: The Artist Formerly Known as CWIG]

From our last accounts our Cost of Sales (the costs of running the business we presume) is over £4.5m, which was up 16% on the previous year.
The admin fees (less the figure for the JV) was £2.5m (more than 50% of the cost of running the business) and up 8% on the previous year.

Now I think most would expect some form of admin expenses, but that does seem excessive and with no idea what they are it's difficult to make a confident statement.

The fact that we know our ownership team are somewhat relaxed with being truthful, it does make you immediately err on the side of something being not good.

This, basically.

Other than that I'm not going to go in to the criminal theories because it will land the forum in hot water, but people should know them already.

[horlock07]

Why do you think that is happening? Are Swindons admin expenses out of line with other clubs? I very much doubt it apart from this year, which has a very specific reason behind it.

Not sure if its ever been done but would be pretty easily compared via CH returns if someone had the time and inclination to do so to evidence how much different they are, albeit not sure who would be a comparable to use TBH.

Who knows where they were getting the money from (maybe they have a benefactor), but the fact that the Aussie Plumber told us he was going to buy them back from his mates when he had the funds (which he still hasn't, as far as we know) but wasn't keen on entertaining the fact that the Trust would help out does (to me at least) raise some massive red flags, especially as they are also part of the JV.

We can only presume that he has something to hide

Or he just didn't want to have part of the business owned by a volunteer organisation which could potentially affect value and speed of any possible future sale.

The admin fees (less the figure for the JV) was £2.5m (more than 50% of the cost of running the business) and up 8% on the previous year.

Now I think most would expect some form of admin expenses, but that does seem excessive and with no idea what they are it's difficult to make a confident statement.

First question would be what was inflation doing in that period, I know it went double digit at one stage but not sure where that sits within the time period for those accounts?

To re-emphasise so I don't get called a thick cunt,for various reasons I think the club could be in considerably better hands and hope it is shortly, but there is so much rumour/conjecture and paranoia floating around at the moment its getting difficult to establish what is fact based and what is a rumour that has gained traction and set hares running.

[RobertT]

From our last accounts our Cost of Sales (the costs of running the business we presume) is over £4.5m, which was up 16% on the previous year.
The admin fees (less the figure for the JV) was £2.5m (more than 50% of the cost of running the business) and up 8% on the previous year.

Now I think most would expect some form of admin expenses, but that does seem excessive and with no idea what they are it's difficult to make a confident statement.

The fact that we know our ownership team are somewhat relaxed with being truthful, it does make you immediately err on the side of something being not good.

It is actually tough to compare with other clubs because some include the salary costs of the football side of the business in their Admin expenses, however, given we include them under CoS, our Admin expenses are somewhat out of whack with those who do similar and are of a similar size/scale that do publish.

It's not that relevant to Manc's original question though, which was more centred on the debt vs equity question.  He asked whether that really mattered, and I'd say yes, very much so.  Not only is debt much more "real" than equity during a sale of this business, but the type of debt has changed.

In any sale, it seems clear that value is being attributed to the club even when the balance sheet is that of a business that is worthless.  It also comes with a pile of debt that the club has a commitment to pay.  If the money had been added as equity, it would be in the balance sheet as such and it would be harder to increase the value of the business.  This way Clem gets his cake, someone elses cake and still gets to eat both.

The type of debt is also changing - it was originally listed as Director loans, which are at least pretty soft in the case of Administration.  In the last set of accounts, a significant chunk was transferred to Axis - so is now owed to a separate business entity.  For now, as Clem is the sole shareholder in that business it is not worrisome, but on buying the business or during an Administration, that's a harder debt than a directors loan.

To go back to losses - losing 1m a year is not unique.  A club getting our attendances and spending what we do on CoS, recording it the way we do, is at best shitty on the performance scale though.  We make considerably less per supporter than some others that produce sufficient details to compare.  That speaks to the state of the club people refer to.  So - we make less money than we should, we likely spend a bit more outside the FC operations than comparable clubs seem to and therefore we still lose as much as some clubs running beyond their means because their owners are footing the bill annually.

Investment is possible - for the right deal, we are not well known within the football business world as a well run club (from several sources).

[Ƭ̵̬̊: The Artist Formerly Known as CWIG]

The type of debt is also changing - it was originally listed as Director loans, which are at least pretty soft in the case of Administration.  In the last set of accounts, a significant chunk was transferred to Axis - so is now owed to a separate business entity.  For now, as Clem is the sole shareholder in that business it is not worrisome, but on buying the business or during an Administration, that's a harder debt than a directors loan.

Well that is worrisome.

[RobertT]

The big question should always be flipped for me.  If Clem was only in this for the good of STFC, why wouldn't he want to sell?  He cannot personally fund it (shown by how he is moving the money from one business to another - which is why he is being chased through the courts by creditors), so owning it is surely a weight around his neck?  So why be resistant to the idea?

I think you need to go back to his original involvement - he did put over 7 figures into the business to purchase shares, with the explicit aim of using STFC as way of building his companies portfolio through the ground development, something Power had no interest in.  Power needed operating capital and always had his money making set-up as the player trading model (I am sure partly because he was aware of some of the future sell on clauses he saw on the books and had a decent enough eye on football to know could be good gambles).  Clem had some money and could pick up the ground development, leaving Power to keep skimming his bit away from Standing.

It is not in Clem's best financial interests to stick around - unless he thinks he has a way to make money.

[tans]

Hilarious irony that someone booked a restaurant for Morfuni and Holloway to go for dinner and they turned up and the restaurant was shut

[4D]

Hilarious irony that someone booked a restaurant for Morfuni and Holloway to go for dinner and they turned up and the restaurant was shut

Ran out of food?

[Matchworn Shirts]

Hilarious irony that someone booked a restaurant for Morfuni and Holloway to go for dinner and they turned up and the restaurant was shut

They should have arrived earlier

[Ƭ̵̬̊: The Artist Formerly Known as CWIG]

Admin error.

[4D]

They should have arrived earlier

 

[Batch]

Hilarious irony that someone booked a restaurant for Morfuni and Holloway to go for dinner and they turned up and the restaurant was shut

🤣🤣🤣

Where did you see that?!

[Nemo]

They should have arrived earlier

 

[Jimmy Quinn]

Ended up dining at Nando’s😁