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Author Topic: Grand National  (Read 1812 times)
adje

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« on: Saturday, April 15, 2023, 12:43:09 »

Couple of horses for Town fans. Last year's winner Noble Yates and Galvin. Definitely not "Our Power" tho!
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« Reply #1 on: Saturday, April 15, 2023, 13:51:36 »

My friends daughter is walking out ‘Back on the lash’ so have stuck a tenner on at 20/1
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Steak supper

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« Reply #2 on: Saturday, April 15, 2023, 15:00:39 »

I am putting a few quid on Galvin
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The Artist Formerly Known as Audrey

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« Reply #3 on: Saturday, April 15, 2023, 16:01:49 »

Tenner on Gaillard du Mesnil
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« Reply #4 on: Saturday, April 15, 2023, 16:12:07 »

Protesters stopping the start of the race.
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Berniman
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« Reply #5 on: Sunday, April 16, 2023, 12:40:55 »

It's time that they changed the format of the race, the first half was not a good look yesterday and it is the first time that I have watched it when I didn't enjoy what I was seeing.  1 horse dies on the first fence, unseated horses jumping barriers and knocking each other over, jockeys getting trampled on..

I am not in the ban the race camp, but I think a reduction in numbers or a review to find a way so that they are more spread out is needed - i must admit I didn't like it.
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horlock07

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« Reply #6 on: Sunday, April 16, 2023, 13:14:33 »

It's time that they changed the format of the race, the first half was not a good look yesterday and it is the first time that I have watched it when I didn't enjoy what I was seeing.  1 horse dies on the first fence, unseated horses jumping barriers and knocking each other over, jockeys getting trampled on..

I am not in the ban the race camp, but I think a reduction in numbers or a review to find a way so that they are more spread out is needed - i must admit I didn't like it.
Short of making the field much smaller not much more they can do, 'only' 3 horses fell (albeit i haven't seen how many were brought down) yesterday which shows the difference the changes to the fences have made.

The problem at the first happens every year as a combination of them all arriving at it too quickly from the start and the field being bunched up together.

I would consider myself a horse racing fan, but most admit the grand national just makes me cringe.
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Legends-Lounge

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« Reply #7 on: Sunday, April 16, 2023, 13:57:08 »

Dragon in law had a £1 E/W on the winner and 4th placed…
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Berniman
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« Reply #8 on: Sunday, April 16, 2023, 14:28:32 »

Short of making the field much smaller not much more they can do, 'only' 3 horses fell (albeit i haven't seen how many were brought down) yesterday which shows the difference the changes to the fences have made.

The problem at the first happens every year as a combination of them all arriving at it too quickly from the start and the field being bunched up together.

I would consider myself a horse racing fan, but most admit the grand national just makes me cringe.

Only 3 horses fell, but most of the carnage (bar the first fence) was caused by unseated horses running riot.  The horses obviously love it, you can see that - but there comes a point when horses dying and jockey's taking their lives into their own hands needs to be looked at.

No other sport would you allow to continue and re-route the course due to an animal laying dying on the floor.  You will always get accidents and incidents no matter what, it's the nature of sport, but I think a bit more could be done to minimise it, that all really.  I am definitely not in the animal cruelty protesters camp.
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BambooToTheFuture

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« Reply #9 on: Sunday, April 16, 2023, 18:57:03 »

Yesterday though, the people trying to get on the course weren't genuine protestors. They were disruptors which is counterproductive from an animal rights POV. IF they care so much they would be at as many race meetings as possible AND doing things in a peaceful manner. They could have done things like spray paint the fences red or dye the turf. Send a drone up and send the images to media outlets. Or start dialogue with someone from the BHA pretending to be pro horse racing and get them to say something a bit silly and then contact the media outlets.. Going all billy big bollocks and Wealdstone Raider style is not it..

Granted this is one of the biggest events in the calendar but all yesterday's action will do in the main is drive Aintree and other courses to increase their security remit. And that will probably be it. These things used to be much bigger news in say the 6Os because there was a newness to scandal as more people started to gain access to more sources of visual media; now it's a 9 day wonder, like many things or until SkyNews has told the masses what the next important news story is..

Whilst it has got several people talking about the horseracing industry, I think all the disruptors have done is made themselves look like utter cunts, especially trying to take on and ''fight'' security and later police. It stinks of the type of people that turn up at protest events just for a chance to start a scrap, rather than actually be there for an important message to be heard.

The even worse thing now though is, in a similar vein to all those online dickheads who thought they knew how to run a missing person campaign - see Nicola Bulley case - people are now all acting as if they are the head honcho of PETA, or the BHA.

I feel similar to Berni in that the bigger races with over twenty horses probably do need something done about it or adapted. One way might be to have four heats of ten horses, with the top three racers going through to the final. Instead of having forty horses all racing, they'd be ranked on form and put into said four groups/heats. In the Grand National Final, it would be between the twelve best horses from each heat. Also from a bookies perspective they'd have more races to offer the punter to bet on and from a horse owners point of view they would be in with a greater chance of being able to win the national.

A side note that doesn't necessarily impact welfare of the animals but I'd also ban race owners/trainers from having more than three horses in each race. It can't be right that the likes of Mullins, Henderson and Elliott can have around six horses in one race. There needs to be a fairer spread across the competitions rather than three trainers covering nearly half the field.
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horlock07

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« Reply #10 on: Monday, April 17, 2023, 09:21:43 »

I suspect as is the human way there will be a lot of hand wringing that 'something has to be done' (why do I always think of Helen Lovejoy from the Simpsons when I type that), before people sit down and think about it and realise that to keep what seems to make the National popular not a great deal can be done about it.

Taking a few points....

most of the carnage (bar the first fence) was caused by unseated horses running riot.

Short of having snipers dotted about the course I honestly have no idea how this can be managed (bar stopping the race to clear them but that's going to defeat the point of the race), (the following is not aimed at you but in response to an 'idea' that seems to be rife on SM) the idea that someone can just catch a loose horse is I assume only being perpetuated by people who have never had 1/2 ton of horse with the only thing on its mind being not getting caught and running with the herd bearing down on them, it ain't gonna happen and probably has more scope for injury than the present situation.

TBH what was probably more worrying on Saturday was the number of horses that got off the course and were running about on the in field bits with Ambulances and TV cars running about in there as well god only knows what could have happened.

I feel similar to Berni in that the bigger races with over twenty horses probably do need something done about it or adapted. One way might be to have four heats of ten horses, with the top three racers going through to the final. Instead of having forty horses all racing, they'd be ranked on form and put into said four groups/heats. In the Grand National Final, it would be between the twelve best horses from each heat. Also from a bookies perspective they'd have more races to offer the punter to bet on and from a horse owners point of view they would be in with a greater chance of being able to win the national.


Reducing the numbers is the obvious solution, but would, I suspect, get rid one one of the main draws of the race for the average man in the street, that its pretty much a lottery and with a big field you get big odds so the pin stickers have a decent chance to win big on small bets (our daughter won a fiver off a 25p each way bet on Saturday!) get the fields down to 20 and the odds would all tighten right up, so if over several races possibly better for the bookies but little different to thousands of other races during the year, including existing ones at Aintree over the same fences.

A side note that doesn't necessarily impact welfare of the animals but I'd also ban race owners/trainers from having more than three horses in each race. It can't be right that the likes of Mullins, Henderson and Elliott can have around six horses in one race. There needs to be a fairer spread across the competitions rather than three trainers covering nearly half the field.

Good luck with that as it gets you into all manner of issues regarding constraints of trade etc, ultimately owners want best trainers for the best horses and outside the big trainers it a very hard business to make sustainable. Racing in the UK is dying on its arse a bit as the prize money isn't great, its why the BHA etc are terrified of any clamping down on the betting industry as without their sponsorship I suspect racing would barely last beyond point to points over here.

OTTOMH all I can possibly see them doing re Saturdays mess (not helped by the delays as you ended up with horses and jockeys considerably more wound up than usual bearing down on the first and in the desperation to get them off the start was a bit of a shambles) is possibly a field reduction to say 30-35 (whatever they think retains the character), and in terms of the opening fences either make the run to the first much longer to try to spread them out a bit (but might mean they just get faster and faster so could defeat the object or make the 1-3 fences physically wider and maybe lower to spread them across the course a bit and easier to jump.

No easy solutions and thankfully not down to me.  
« Last Edit: Monday, April 17, 2023, 09:24:46 by horlock07 » Logged
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