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Author Topic: Next seasons rebuild 23/24  (Read 32580 times)
theakston2k

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« Reply #90 on: Monday, March 20, 2023, 13:53:40 »

But again, if they are not capable of playing that way and its just going to cause injury and squad chaos, then stop playing that way. Much as with the formation, Morris needs to play to what he has, not what he desires to do, this season at least.
But if he’s got the same opinion of the squad as us then he’s probably given up in his own mind this season and wants to see which players can play his ‘style’ next season. Need to be thinking next season now.
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DiV
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« Reply #91 on: Monday, March 20, 2023, 14:09:21 »

If you’ve got Charlie Austin in your squad then you don’t get him to press.

That’s just stupid management.
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DMC

« Reply #92 on: Monday, March 20, 2023, 14:10:59 »

If you’ve got Charlie Austin in your squad then you don’t get him to press.

That’s just stupid management.
In his defence he doesn't but that's when he ends up playing deep
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Jimmy HaveHave

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« Reply #93 on: Monday, March 20, 2023, 15:10:07 »

Just like Harry Kane does!
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horlock07

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« Reply #94 on: Monday, March 20, 2023, 15:18:11 »

But if he’s got the same opinion of the squad as us then he’s probably given up in his own mind this season and wants to see which players can play his ‘style’ next season. Need to be thinking next season now.

To come in and take over a team in 6th place and after 9 games basically give up on the season doesn't show him in a particularly positive light does it.....
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Berniman
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« Reply #95 on: Monday, March 20, 2023, 15:27:44 »

The attractions are obvious. Brentford fans, in the beginning, were very critical as any decent player was sold if there was a profit to be made. Slowly but surely, better quality players were bought to replace those departing - although the punts started costing money as they weren’t off the radar. No doubt they recruited some players that didn’t work out.

We’re at the stage now where, after one season of it, the fans are getting restless. This approach isn’t going to work overnight but fans are notoriously impatient.

I’d like to know what others think the approach should be.

I just posted this in the other thread but it kind of sums up my views on this..

I don't think the moneyball model should be completely disgarded either, i believe it is the right model to follow just in a completley different way to the way we approached it.

Bring in the right people to implement it, gradually over the next 5 years.  Brighton/Brentford didn't try to do it all in the first season, which is pretty much what we tried to do.  Just throwing it out now after 8-10 months of trying is throwing the baby out with the bathwater.  If you implement say 20% of your player recruitment with that model in mind in year 1 and slowly increase over time, whilst still having the flexibility to bend the model when required, i believe the end result will be much more successful.

Key to this though is having the right people to implement it, backed up with some "football people" as part of the operating model.

I get that everyone seems to have been burnt by this experience and would prefer to bin it off and go back to the ways of before, but let's face it, we didn't do a brilliant job at that either, otherwise we would be in the Championship now.
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Jimmy HaveHave

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« Reply #96 on: Monday, March 20, 2023, 20:08:32 »

Lots of good comments on why the season has been a failure and what needs to change

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theakston2k

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« Reply #97 on: Monday, March 20, 2023, 22:25:32 »

To come in and take over a team in 6th place and after 9 games basically give up on the season doesn't show him in a particularly positive light does it.....
But he wouldn’t have known they’d be quite as poor as they were and probably thought he could make it work once he got them fit. But now it hasn’t worked the rest of this season is nothing more than preparation for next season so he needs to get the players that will be here next season drilled into his way of playing and the rest of the players are irrelevant and will just make up the numbers.
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Mooneyraker

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« Reply #98 on: Tuesday, March 21, 2023, 07:37:36 »

The attractions are obvious. Brentford fans, in the beginning, were very critical as any decent player was sold if there was a profit to be made. Slowly but surely, better quality players were bought to replace those departing - although the punts started costing money as they weren’t off the radar. No doubt they recruited some players that didn’t work out.

We’re at the stage now where, after one season of it, the fans are getting restless. This approach isn’t going to work overnight but fans are notoriously impatient.

I’d like to know what others think the approach should be.

I'm not up on Brentford's history but I think this has something to do with us starting the experiment at what is statistically one of the lowest ebbs in most fans' lifetimes. Patience is thin. Similarly, everyone bought into last year's team only for us to take a sharp left turn. I think a gradual implementation of this plan would have carried more fans along with it.
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Pookemon

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« Reply #99 on: Tuesday, March 21, 2023, 08:21:57 »

I'm not up on Brentford's history but I think this has something to do with us starting the experiment at what is statistically one of the lowest ebbs in most fans' lifetimes. Patience is thin. Similarly, everyone bought into last year's team only for us to take a sharp left turn. I think a gradual implementation of this plan would have carried more fans along with it.
Matthew Benham at Brentford invested millions onto the playing budget to get them into the championship.   They didn't run sustainably like we are trying to - not that I'm against that ambition.

Clem has invested millions too, but almost entirely to clear debt and doesn't have bottomless pockets like other owners to run at a £1m+ loss every year.

Tony Bloom at Brighton invested over £100m to get them where they are now

Both Brentford and Brighton have spent the money wisely and run their clubs well but it wouldn't have succeeded without the initial cash boost.   You almost certainly need both and a lot of luck to do what they have done.
« Last Edit: Tuesday, March 21, 2023, 08:26:58 by Pookemon » Logged
Mooneyraker

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« Reply #100 on: Tuesday, March 21, 2023, 08:26:24 »

Matthew Benham at Brentford invested millions onto the playing budget to get them into the championship.   They didn't run sustainably like we are trying to - not that I'm against that ambition.

Clem has invested millions too, but almost entirely to clear debt and doesn't have bottomless pockets like other owners to run at a £1m+ loss every year.

Tony Bloom at Brighton invested over £100m to get them where they are now

Both have spent the money wisely and run their clubs well but it wasn't just spreadsheet recruitment that got them both to the promised land.

Yes, I personally think the Brentford comparison is completely ridiculous for the reasons you say. But I was attempting to answer the question on the fans' patience with the 'project' or lack thereof.
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Pookemon

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« Reply #101 on: Tuesday, March 21, 2023, 08:31:00 »

Yes, I personally think the Brentford comparison is completely ridiculous for the reasons you say. But I was attempting to answer the question on the fans' patience with the 'project' or lack thereof.
A lack of improvement will foster that belief.   We have seen none on or off the pitch this season other than a fantastic balance sheet- which is great - and the stadium purchase, which hasn't yet happened so not tangible or visible to the average punter.
« Last Edit: Tuesday, March 21, 2023, 08:33:06 by Pookemon » Logged
derbystfc

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« Reply #102 on: Tuesday, March 21, 2023, 09:06:12 »

We don't have the funds to do a Brighton/Brentford philosophy right away, and we also want to get out of this league, some would argue that it's crucial we get out of the league.

Now I wouldn't entirely scrap the money ball direction either.

Get a team that's going to compete in this league, that's first priority.

Get the right people in (with experience and know how) to look at implementing money ball philosophy, 2nd Priority. also work on the infrastructure.

Start to build the squad with 'Moneyball' type signings, 3rd Priority

Replace old fashioned style squad with more money ball signings when the system is fully in place

It's a slow rebuild I know.
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Jimmy HaveHave

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« Reply #103 on: Tuesday, March 21, 2023, 15:36:34 »

 Hmmm
We don't have the funds to do a Brighton/Brentford philosophy right away, and we also want to get out of this league, some would argue that it's crucial we get out of the league.

Now I wouldn't entirely scrap the money ball direction either.

Get a team that's going to compete in this league, that's first priority.

Get the right people in (with experience and know how) to look at implementing money ball philosophy, 2nd Priority. also work on the infrastructure.

Start to build the squad with 'Moneyball' type signings, 3rd Priority

Replace old fashioned style squad with more money ball signings when the system is fully in place

It's a slow rebuild I know.

Good post😀
No we don't have the funds to compete with a Brighton/Brentford but questions should be asked how we can't compete with the likes of Accrington, Cambridge, Cheltenham, Burton,  Exeter, FGR, Fleetwood, Morecambe, Oxford, Peterborough, Shrewsbury & Wycombe plus a few others as they can't all have super wealthy owners.

Look at Stevenage last season, almost went out of the football league then employed a manager who knows lower league football and near on certain to gain promotion. Would it have been pretty football no but he more than likely would have got us out of leagues 2 which is the ultimate aim then we could have looked at moneyball signings in league one.
« Last Edit: Tuesday, March 21, 2023, 15:38:35 by Jimmy QuitMoaning » Logged

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derbystfc

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« Reply #104 on: Tuesday, March 21, 2023, 15:46:26 »

Hmmm
Good post😀
No we don't have the funds to compete with a Brighton/Brentford but questions should be asked how we can't compete with the likes of Accrington, Cambridge, Cheltenham, Burton,  Exeter, FGR, Fleetwood, Morecambe, Oxford, Peterborough, Shrewsbury & Wycombe plus a few others as they can't all have super wealthy owners.

Look at Stevenage last season, almost went out of the football league then employed a manager who knows lower league football and near on certain to gain promotion. Would it have been pretty football no but he more than likely would have got us out of leagues 2 which is the ultimate aim then we could have looked at moneyball signings in league one.

You have pretty much regurgitated what I said
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