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Question: Lindsey:
Give him the season - 19 (16.8%)
Time for a change - 94 (83.2%)
Total Voters: 112

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Author Topic: Current Management  (Read 9265 times)
ThreeDrawsMentality

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« Reply #165 on: Wednesday, January 4, 2023, 12:17:19 »

I'd go a bit further than that. We aren't really creating quality chances which is leading to not scoring goals. Defensively we seem to be ok, although we do give away chances with individiual mistakes we aren't conceding a worrying amount of goals imo.
This is where my head was at too so got me wondering if this could be quantified at all. Using Opta's data, managed to quickly determine the following based on our Open Play XG for.

-We have most open play shots (1st) in the league, which contributes to the 2nd highest XG.
-However, that becomes 9th for XG p/shot, so they aren't terrible chances, but not so good either. We are 9th in the league for open play goals scored so it directly correlates with the quality of chances we are creating.
-However, we see an even bigger drop off comparing XG p/shot Vs actual goals scored p/shot, we drop down to 17th. So our finishing is really poor.

Conclusion:
-XG figure is skewed by having lots of not so good shots.
-We're not bad at creating chances, but not so good either.
-We're even worser at trying to finish those chances than others.
-A good finisher like Austin could help us over perform.
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Mr Stevens

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« Reply #166 on: Wednesday, January 4, 2023, 12:32:19 »

It always worries me when these witch-hunts start to gather momentum where the loudest voices drown everyone else out.

I was at Old Trafford early in Ferguson's time there and things were not going well. The Stretford End were singing "Bye-Bye Fergie" and we all know how that ended. I am in no way comparing SL to Ferguson but to write him off while we're in a play-off position is also premature. Claims that he has lost the dressing room are based on what? Did he find the dressing room at Mansfield then lose it again?

I don't like the knee-jerk reactions prevalent with football fans. The only time I have wanted a manager to go was our Scouser and that was more to do with John Trollope's departure, together with a knee-high tackle when he got sent off against, I think, Bolton.

I hope that Austin can assist out goal-scoring record and quiten down some of our more volatile supporters.
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RobertT

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« Reply #167 on: Wednesday, January 4, 2023, 12:59:48 »

This is where my head was at too so got me wondering if this could be quantified at all. Using Opta's data, managed to quickly determine the following based on our Open Play XG for.

-We have most open play shots (1st) in the league, which contributes to the 2nd highest XG.
-However, that becomes 9th for XG p/shot, so they aren't terrible chances, but not so good either. We are 9th in the league for open play goals scored so it directly correlates with the quality of chances we are creating.
-However, we see an even bigger drop off comparing XG p/shot Vs actual goals scored p/shot, we drop down to 17th. So our finishing is really poor.

Conclusion:
-XG figure is skewed by having lots of not so good shots.
-We're not bad at creating chances, but not so good either.
-We're even worser at trying to finish those chances than others.
-A good finisher like Austin could help us over perform.

There are two further bits of work I'd be interested to see, but unlikely ever to.  How much analysis is provided at this level vs. Prem League?  I wonder if they extrapolate the top level analysis and just use it with less human input further down, making it less reliable.  Also, How does that compare to chance creation not taken - I don't remember us passing up good opportunities for example.  How does that show in any stats pack?  If we are trying shit chances and unsurprisingly not converting them, but we don't pass up any better opportunities, then that probably tells out story.  We simply do not create enough to increase our odds of winning - most games at this level are tight without any dominating team.
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singingiiiffy

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« Reply #168 on: Wednesday, January 4, 2023, 13:00:30 »

It always worries me when these witch-hunts start to gather momentum where the loudest voices drown everyone else out.

I was at Old Trafford early in Ferguson's time there and things were not going well. The Stretford End were singing "Bye-Bye Fergie" and we all know how that ended. I am in no way comparing SL to Ferguson but to write him off while we're in a play-off position is also premature. Claims that he has lost the dressing room are based on what? Did he find the dressing room at Mansfield then lose it again?

I don't like the knee-jerk reactions prevalent with football fans. The only time I have wanted a manager to go was our Scouser and that was more to do with John Trollope's departure, together with a knee-high tackle when he got sent off against, I think, Bolton.

I hope that Austin can assist out goal-scoring record and quiten down some of our more volatile supporters.

Ferguson won the cup winners cup, super, cup, scottish prem 3 times, scottish fa cup 4 times, and the league cup- all with Aberdeen before he was seemingly under pressure at man utd.

you are right to say you are no way comparing scott lindsey as that would be ridiculous and not even worth mentioning.

like it or not SL doesn't have the creditials or CV to show any doubters that he was the potential to turn things round.

How many times have we actually played really well this season. its not very high at all and thats the biggest issue.

we are yet to see him address any issues with personel, formation and set up and its now January.

your saying its a witch hunt but he doesn't give anyone any possible bit of confidence that a turnaround in form is around the corner.

You also lost me at the point you said the only manager you wanted to go was mcmahon. that is seriously impressive after the likes of brown and sheridan etc.  
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Batch
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« Reply #169 on: Wednesday, January 4, 2023, 13:05:38 »

I was at Old Trafford early in Ferguson's time there and things were not going well. The Stretford End were singing "Bye-Bye Fergie" and we all know how that ended.

Just my twopenneth:

I do think back to that situation too. They were a (rumoured) defeat away from their greatest ever period. Maybe Charlie Austin will be his Mark Robins.

Things move on, not always for the better. Social media is more poisonous in some quarters. And we've moved on to the "instant" era. Instant news, instant reactions, instant result, black and white, do or be cancelled.

Football has moved on a bit too, not as easy to build a squad over a few seasons these days. Not easy to keep one together over a season either.

Not sure this post has a point.

I doubt many are enjoying the football, I've no idea if the 'he's got to go' are a small but loud minority  on SM or reflective of the majority of the fanbase.  I'm quite surprised how many have seemingly made up their minds.

SDM also getting a lot of flack on SM too. Is one window enough to judge the system on? He hasn't helped himself with the "showcase" comments mind. But where did that direction come from?

Ferguson won the cup winners cup, super, cup, scottish prem 3 times, scottish fa cup 4 times, and the league cup- all with Aberdeen before he was seemingly under pressure at man utd.

Yeah, that's fair!
« Last Edit: Wednesday, January 4, 2023, 13:07:57 by Batch » Logged
4D
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« Reply #170 on: Wednesday, January 4, 2023, 13:31:31 »

It always worries me when these witch-hunts start to gather momentum where the loudest voices drown everyone else out.

I was at Old Trafford early in Ferguson's time there and things were not going well. The Stretford End were singing "Bye-Bye Fergie" and we all know how that ended. I am in no way comparing SL to Ferguson but to write him off while we're in a play-off position is also premature. Claims that he has lost the dressing room are based on what? Did he find the dressing room at Mansfield then lose it again?

I don't like the knee-jerk reactions prevalent with football fans. The only time I have wanted a manager to go was our Scouser and that was more to do with John Trollope's departure, together with a knee-high tackle when he got sent off against, I think, Bolton.

I hope that Austin can assist out goal-scoring record and quiten down some of our more volatile supporters.

Was 1996 the last year you attended?  Smiley
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derbystfc

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« Reply #171 on: Wednesday, January 4, 2023, 13:31:58 »

It always worries me when these witch-hunts start to gather momentum where the loudest voices drown everyone else out.

I was at Old Trafford early in Ferguson's time there and things were not going well. The Stretford End were singing "Bye-Bye Fergie" and we all know how that ended. I am in no way comparing SL to Ferguson but to write him off while we're in a play-off position is also premature. Claims that he has lost the dressing room are based on what? Did he find the dressing room at Mansfield then lose it again?

I don't like the knee-jerk reactions prevalent with football fans. The only time I have wanted a manager to go was our Scouser and that was more to do with John Trollope's departure, together with a knee-high tackle when he got sent off against, I think, Bolton.

I hope that Austin can assist out goal-scoring record and quiten down some of our more volatile supporters.

I don't think this is knee jerking, I thing this has been building up. When SL was appointed, I think many including myself was cautiously optimistic, hoping that it work out. But as we go through the season, a lot of people spot the same repeating pattern.

I think the frustration comes when your subjected to abject performances week in and out, and hear the same excuses. Yes we are in the playoff places right now, but their are many teams with games on hand that can take our place, Are we to accept that's ok for Swindon??
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Bob's Orange
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« Reply #172 on: Wednesday, January 4, 2023, 13:34:33 »

Just my twopenneth:

I do think back to that situation too. They were a (rumoured) defeat away from their greatest ever period. Maybe Charlie Austin will be his Mark Robins.

Things move on, not always for the better. Social media is more poisonous in some quarters. And we've moved on to the "instant" era. Instant news, instant reactions, instant result, black and white, do or be cancelled.

Football has moved on a bit too, not as easy to build a squad over a few seasons these days. Not easy to keep one together over a season either.

Not sure this post has a point.

I doubt many are enjoying the football, I've no idea if the 'he's got to go' are a small but loud minority  on SM or reflective of the majority of the fanbase.  I'm quite surprised how many have seemingly made up their minds.

SDM also getting a lot of flack on SM too. Is one window enough to judge the system on? He hasn't helped himself with the "showcase" comments mind. But where did that direction come from?

Yeah, that's fair!

I was going to respond quoting Mr Stevens' post but I think you've made some great points. (FWIW I'm in a similar camp to Mr Stevens re the knee-jerk thing, oddly I've become much more patient with STFC as i've got older)

I think you are spot on about the instant nature of football these days, particularly in the Premier League. Look at Arsenal after they appointed Arteta and it didn't start so well. That fanbase was absolutely poisonous and it was clear a lot of them (I don't know if you can say the majority, but there was a vocal element) wanted him gone. Fast forward until now and he can almost do no wrong. Again, you can't compare someone like Scott Lindsey to Mikel Arteta, their abilities are light years apart but it does show that given time managers can flourish.

That's not to say that I think SM necessarily will. He's had 30 games in charge, winning 10, drawing 8 and losing 12. (according to Wiki) The January window along with the Charlie Austin signing really is last chance saloon territory. If things don't pick up the small minority on SM will turn into loud voices at the CG after full time whistles.
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WEBBERhyde

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« Reply #173 on: Wednesday, January 4, 2023, 13:56:29 »

I'll give more detail when i've got time, but people quoting our league position in accusations of "knee-jerk", trial by social media thinking, is really irking me.

Based on form since November (8 league games), we are 20th in the table. Thats being generous and not counting the FA cup loss at Stockport.
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ChalkyWhiteIsGod
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« Reply #174 on: Wednesday, January 4, 2023, 14:30:32 »

It always worries me when these witch-hunts start to gather momentum where the loudest voices drown everyone else out.

I was at Old Trafford early in Ferguson's time there and things were not going well. The Stretford End were singing "Bye-Bye Fergie" and we all know how that ended. I am in no way comparing SL to Ferguson but to write him off while we're in a play-off position is also premature. Claims that he has lost the dressing room are based on what? Did he find the dressing room at Mansfield then lose it again?

I don't like the knee-jerk reactions prevalent with football fans. The only time I have wanted a manager to go was our Scouser and that was more to do with John Trollope's departure, together with a knee-high tackle when he got sent off against, I think, Bolton.

I hope that Austin can assist out goal-scoring record and quiten down some of our more volatile supporters.

I'd like to state for the record, I have felt SL was likely not the right man for the job and have seen nothing to be shown that I am wrong since.

I've flat out been arguing with people on here early in the season about our style of play and the quality of it since the start of the season.

Call me a miserable bastard but I've not been so negative at certain iffy times in the past. Fickle and knee jerk reactions don't come in to it.

There are a few others who have felt the same as me all season, but the last few weeks it seems to have tipped in favour of people fed up with Lindseytippytappyball and Sandros spreadsheet recruitment.
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ChalkyWhiteIsGod
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« Reply #175 on: Wednesday, January 4, 2023, 14:33:25 »

You also lost me at the point you said the only manager you wanted to go was mcmahon. that is seriously impressive after the likes of brown and sheridan etc.  

Yeah thats comical.

surely the happiest of happy clappers wanted Sheridan gone.
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4D
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« Reply #176 on: Wednesday, January 4, 2023, 14:34:33 »

Just found some interesting stats....

All league postion related.

Interceptions 22nd
Successful tackles 24th
Clearances 23rd

Get into em FFS.
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ChalkyWhiteIsGod
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« Reply #177 on: Wednesday, January 4, 2023, 14:35:26 »

Just found some interesting stats....

All league postion related.

Interceptions 22nd
Successful tackles 24th
Clearances 23rd

Get into em FFS.

Pointless playing possession football if this is the case. Very clearly going to concede too many to make it work.

No bite.
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« Reply #178 on: Wednesday, January 4, 2023, 14:45:55 »

I'll give more detail when i've got time, but people quoting our league position in accusations of "knee-jerk", trial by social media thinking, is really irking me.

Based on form since November (8 league games), we are 20th in the table. Thats being generous and not counting the FA cup loss at Stockport.

That's absolutely fair. I can totally see why people have got to the point of despair.

I'm torn between "Rome wasn't built in a day" and "oh crap, we've got a game this week. I'll take the kindle"

I do feel that getting to the playoffs is my mark of minimum standard too (in div 4). It a question of whether the judgement comes now or at the end of what would be another wasted season.
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RedRag

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« Reply #179 on: Wednesday, January 4, 2023, 15:06:53 »


I didn't really know much about SL at the season's start.  I was sceptical about appointing an established no. 2 as head coach.  A good no. 2 is just that, usually.  But Garner shat on us.  STFC was ill prepared.  SL was appointed. I have to say I still think he deserved his chance. 

And for more than 4 league games after which more measured posters were forced to point out the starts previously made by PDC and other successful STFC teams.   Perhaps some of SL's detractors were prescient and finer judges than other more reserved posters? 

Others felt we needed a dozen games or so to make a judgement.  By which time STFC had rolled out an impressive if relatively lacklustre unbeaten run.  The performance at Mansfield Town, aided by a sending off, just about papered over the lack of creativity and incision post McKirdy.  However some fans were starting to chant SL's name  (not followed by "OUT"!).

But we've now slipped well past the 23 game stage and it is clear that our play has slipped backwards.  We require to be in the playoffs and do not look like we would make that cut.  We were a tad unlucky at that stage last year but even if we did make the POs, SL does not look capable of producing a PO winning side or a meaningful contender.  That is unacceptable for me.  For all sorts of reasons.  Sorry Mr Stevens.  Now is the time to change managers.
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