Poll
Question: Do you think David Flitcroft should be dismissed before the January transfer window if the poor run continues?  (Voting closed: Monday, January 1, 2018, 09:27:14)
Yes - 71 (62.8%)
No - 42 (37.2%)
Total Voters: 100

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Author Topic: David Flitcroft: Yes or No  (Read 64487 times)
RobertT

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« Reply #30 on: Sunday, December 17, 2017, 18:09:58 »

But one would have likely had a small raise and the other came from several years of league one wages.    We have a group that are at least Div 4 run of the mill and a few who are likely above that, creating on overall budget above average.  Not massively, but enough that being in the play off hunt would be Expected, which is what we have been.  If you read my posts you'll see I have consistently stated I thought Play Offs were a distinct possibility even accounting for the atrocious style of play.  I'm wavering a little on that, but it should still be possible.  My entire dislike is based on how we play not where we are in the league.  It smacks of a poor Manager to me - I think you can have someone in control of our team, with our budget and play a little more effectively than we do currently.  I'd be ok with being direct, like Macari was, or compact, like Wise and Sturrock and then Di Canio.  There seemed to be a well thought out plan, I see no evidence that we should expect anything different in the remainder of this season than we have been provided with thus far, or the next season.
« Last Edit: Sunday, December 17, 2017, 18:12:27 by RobertT » Logged
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« Reply #31 on: Sunday, December 17, 2017, 18:16:27 »

Quote from: RobertT
Mullin and Purkiss are also likely to be on the higher end of wages in this league, plus you have people like Norris & Vigs retained.  Overall budget is likely top 10, not top 3 or 4, but not bad.

yeah I'd agree with that. so we are performing where we should be, albeit poorly, and with a fanbase expecting top 3
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Reg Smeeton
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« Reply #32 on: Sunday, December 17, 2017, 18:28:54 »

But one would have likely had a small raise and the other came from several years of league one wages.    We have a group that are at least Div 4 run of the mill and a few who are likely above that, creating on overall budget above average.  Not massively, but enough that being in the play off hunt would be Expected, which is what we have been.  If you read my posts you'll see I have consistently stated I thought Play Offs were a distinct possibility even accounting for the atrocious style of play.  I'm wavering a little on that, but it should still be possible.  My entire dislike is based on how we play not where we are in the league.  It smacks of a poor Manager to me - I think you can have someone in control of our team, with our budget and play a little more effectively than we do currently.  I'd be ok with being direct, like Macari was, or compact, like Wise and Sturrock and then Di Canio.  There seemed to be a well thought out plan, I see no evidence that we should expect anything different in the remainder of this season than we have been provided with thus far, or the next season.

All the managers you mention were provided with above average funds for Div 4, not something available to Flitters.  I know you don't like the style of play, but for me it makes sense.  We just couldn't persist with the "good" football model in Div 4, back to basics was required, the worry is of course that we're not even doing those atm... however that is something that it should be possible to put right.
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pauld
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« Reply #33 on: Monday, December 18, 2017, 10:02:07 »

All the managers you mention were provided with above average funds for Div 4, not something available to Flitters.  I know you don't like the style of play, but for me it makes sense.  We just couldn't persist with the "good" football model in Div 4, back to basics was required,
It's the pendulum swinging though, we seem to have gone from one extreme to another - from trying to play too much "nice" football (and failing miserably) to a manager who is happy to spout that he doesn't care about what happens between the two boxes. There's a balance to be struck in the middle of the two extremes.
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Flashheart

« Reply #34 on: Monday, December 18, 2017, 10:09:56 »

I was willing to sacrifice style for effectiveness this season. We've sacrificed style, but we've not really seen the effectiveness.
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Crispy
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« Reply #35 on: Monday, December 18, 2017, 10:13:28 »

Get rid for me. I've not been up as much as I'd like too this season, but when I have it's been truly awful.
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« Reply #36 on: Monday, December 18, 2017, 10:13:29 »

Quote from: Flashheart
I was willing to sacrifice style for effectiveness this season. We've sacrificed style, but we've not really seen the effectiveness.
bingo!
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« Reply #37 on: Monday, December 18, 2017, 10:14:39 »

The style is irrelevant. Any manager that was having this form in League Two would be met with the same scrutiny.
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ferret

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« Reply #38 on: Monday, December 18, 2017, 10:22:27 »

It's the pendulum swinging though, we seem to have gone from one extreme to another - from trying to play too much "nice" football (and failing miserably) to a manager who is happy to spout that he doesn't care about what happens between the two boxes. There's a balance to be struck in the middle of the two extremes.

Absolutely. I still don't see the sense in buying into the whole "we're shit, get used to it" line.

We have a manager who does daffy things which nobody can justify. I know I go on about it, but the Taylor / Iandolo thing is the clearest of the lot. We keep losing, it keeps failing, but he keeps doing it. Bury fans, who lost 11 consecutive games with him in charge, forewarned us that this sort of thing would happen. Nobody is demanding a tactical genius - just someone with a reasonable level of common sense and humility. And I'm not seeing it.

I don't even think he talks that well - it's all just clichéd bullshit. Sure, he comes across better than Williams and Cooper, but that's not much of an achievement.
« Last Edit: Monday, December 18, 2017, 10:24:36 by ferret » Logged
Reg Smeeton
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« Reply #39 on: Monday, December 18, 2017, 10:24:34 »

It's the pendulum swinging though, we seem to have gone from one extreme to another - from trying to play too much "nice" football (and failing miserably) to a manager who is happy to spout that he doesn't care about what happens between the two boxes. There's a balance to be struck in the middle of the two extremes.

I don't pay too much attention to the literal interpretation of Flitters post match thoughts... rather assume he means his priority is what happens in the offensive and defensive third.  With us atm it is vulnerabilty at corners and free kicks. OK you can always concede an odd goal from a set piece, but we're doing too many.

I also don't think our style is that bad, this is Div 4 we're talkng about
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Crispy
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« Reply #40 on: Monday, December 18, 2017, 10:26:56 »

I also don't think our style is that bad, this is Div 4 we're talkng about

From the 4 games I've watched this season, 2 home 2 away, our 'style' is fucking dreadful.
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« Reply #41 on: Monday, December 18, 2017, 10:28:58 »

Style is irrelevant - we should be competing and right now, it looks like we're sliding towards not doing that.

I've said since the start of the season, if we're not in the mix for the top 3 going into January, he goes. I've not seen anything to suggest I should change my opinion.

And anyone who is happy to sit back and accept mid-table Division 4 football in front of 4500 fans is mad.
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Flashheart

« Reply #42 on: Monday, December 18, 2017, 10:32:51 »



I also don't think our style is that bad, this is Div 4 we're talkng about

It's awful, Reg. Other teams are playing better football than we are, so the Div 4 excuse doesn't cut it.
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Reg Smeeton
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« Reply #43 on: Monday, December 18, 2017, 10:46:02 »

It's awful, Reg. Other teams are playing better football than we are, so the Div 4 excuse doesn't cut it.


The only side who I've seen take us apart in a style fashion were Barnet, who going into Saturday were 24th.  The rest it's mostly been the Div 4 staple of a bit better at the %ages.

I think Barnet, got to the foot of the table due to trying to play sexy under a youth coach. We go there NYD, Akinde is now back and I'd imagine under McGhee they'll give it some grunt.

It will be interesting to see what Crewe are up to... I'm guessing they've stuck to their purist guns.
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« Reply #44 on: Monday, December 18, 2017, 10:51:28 »

It's awful, Reg. Other teams are playing better football than we are, so the Div 4 excuse doesn't cut it.


Are they? Theres no teams that have really stood out as much better than us. The best team in the league we took apart at their own gaff. The only team I can think of who I really thought "they look good" were Exeter.

This is just what happens when you have a bad run. At the height of our good run people were praising Flitcroft left, right and centre.
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