EU Referendum

[pauld]

The only question is whether he can beat the Torys or not. The grassroot support is unwavering

Don't think he'll get a chance to find out tbh, looks like the PLP are set on cutting their own throats. Be interesting to see what arises from the ashes of Labour's self-destruction, hopefully something actually half useful. If the Tories could self-immolate as well, we may even end up with something approaching a functioning democracy

[jayohaitchenn]

He'll be on the ballot unless they cheat him out of it. So the only two available options are, he wins on a mandate of mandatory deselection thus strengthening his position or the 'moderates' cheat him out of the ballot and make Labour truly unelectable for the foreseen future.

[Nemo]

Don't think he'll get a chance to find out tbh, looks like the PLP are set on cutting their own throats. Be interesting to see what arises from the ashes of Labour's self-destruction, hopefully something actually half useful. If the Tories could self-immolate as well, we may even end up with something approaching a functioning democracy

In fairness, a Labour split into a social democratic (blairite/brownite/whateveryouwanttocallit) and a true socialist party would be for the best for everyone were it not for the fact that our electoral system effectively forces them to co-exist as neither would win many seats alone under FPTP.

Also, I'm really not convinced that all this re-engaging with the grass roots Corbyn is supposedly doing is actually legitimate. He's very popular with angry lefties, especially in London, but there's no chance he's going to win the voters that have deserted Labour for UKIP, is there? You might argue that appealing to those people means watering down his beliefs and that's clearly why he's not doing it, but the problem here is whether it's better to have your principles in perpetual opposition or compromise on a few of them to potentially gain power.

It seems like either path is laced with trouble at the moment.

[Saxondale]

Its interesting to see that we (the labour party) have by far the largest membership since Corbyn has been elected.  Including about 60k extra in the last week.  About double the membership of the Tories, yet our elected representatives are seeking to deny us the opportunity to vote on who is going to lead us.

Corbyn is continuing to be the victim of a nasty stitch up campaign which he is bearing with remarkable dignity and grace.  Im amazed to see (well not amazed at all) that BBC gobshite Laura Kuennsberg is continuing to report only bad, and fake news about Corbyn latest being her proudly proclaiming that 500 councillors have signed a letter against Corbyn.  Those councillors are now coming out saying 'I didnt sign that'.  As the contention that 'all labour MEPs have signed a letter for him to go' has been debunked with MEPs saying - I didnt sign that please retract.

The ferocity of this at the moment and the wheeling out of characters such as Allistair Campbell really does make me wonder whats going on, what with Chilcott finally reporting next week and Corbyn having been against the Iraq war and suggesting Blair should be put on trial for war crimes.

Its a nasty little badly planned coup.

[Nemo]

The ferocity of this at the moment and the wheeling out of characters such as Allistair Campbell really does make me wonder whats going on, what with Chilcott finally reporting next week and Corbyn having been against the Iraq war and suggesting Blair should be put on trial for war crimes.

Its a nasty little badly planned coup.

I have no particular love for Blair, and I agree that people like Campbell and their ilk are jumping on this with one eye on their own ends, but you must see that this is a lot wider than some sort of Blairite cabal? 80% of Labour MPs voted that they have no confidence in Corbyn, including people like Lisa Nandy, Owen Smith and Ed Milliband who are nobody's idea of Blairites and in fact were (the first two at least) vocal Corbyn supporters.

Like them or not, these are MPs who campaign for Labour on doorsteps and know that Corbyn just isn't popular with the swing voters that you need if you're to win a majority. He's incredibly popular with the people who like him, I agree, but strength of feeling does not amplify your vote.

Corbyn could lead an opposition or niche party well, but not a party of government under the current electoral system (which, regrettably, seems unlikely to change).

[pauld]

I have no particular love for Blair, and I agree that people like Campbell and their ilk are jumping on this with one eye on their own ends, but you must see that this is a lot wider than some sort of Blairite cabal? 80% of Labour MPs voted that they have no confidence in Corbyn, including people like Lisa Nandy, Owen Smith and Ed Milliband who are nobody's idea of Blairites and in fact were (the first two at least) vocal Corbyn supporters.

Like them or not, these are MPs who campaign for Labour on doorsteps and know that Corbyn just isn't popular with the swing voters that you need if you're to win a majority. He's incredibly popular with the people who like him, I agree, but strength of feeling does not amplify your vote.

Corbyn could lead an opposition or niche party well, but not a party of government under the current electoral system (which, regrettably, seems unlikely to change).

Summed up very well. The biggest problem with Corbyn for me is that he's only any good at talking to people who already agree with him. He's completely tone deaf at connecting with a wider public or indeed anyone much outside his ultra-left cabal - the (admittedly distorted) bollock drop at the launch of yesterday's anti-Semitism review being a case in point.

I'd still say though that irrespective of the motives/backgrounds of the plotters the PLP is showing no signs whatever that they actually "get it" - it all reads as very Westminster bubble right now and if they don't pull their heads out of their arses fast, they're going to take a kicking at the next election that I don't think Labour will be able to recover from.

[Ardiles]

Rarely has a single line so epitomised the importance of correct punctuation - you were one full stop away from disaster there.

Just seen this.  Quite right. 

[pauld]

Just when you thought there was nothing that could make the whole clusterfuck worse, here's one suggestion that could:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/06/30/tony-blair-hints-at-role-as-brexit-negotiator-in-eu-talks-that-w/

Can't we get just get on with jailing this arsehole?

[Tails]

I think arsehole is being nice

[pauld]

I think arsehole is being nice

Well, yes, I'm a very nice person

[RedRag]

http://m.huffpost.com/uk/entry/uk_57737efce4b081f48abaa055?edition=uk

[pauld]

Think this sums up the various crises currently gripping our political masters very nicely:

https://www.facebook.com/TheTabOfficial/videos/674252449389134/

[Red Frog]

Think this sums up the various crises currently gripping our political masters very nicely:

https://www.facebook.com/TheTabOfficial/videos/674252449389134/

Prefer this one, even if it's Soviet-sponsored:

https://www.facebook.com/RTUKnews/videos/1625038167786060/

[Tails]

Looks like Farage has resigned

[pauld]

Looks like Farage has resigned

Wouldn't go too early on that, last time he resigned, it was like a bloody yo-yo.