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Author Topic: Let's Get Political!  (Read 2011430 times)
horlock07

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« Reply #6810 on: Friday, August 23, 2019, 09:21:47 »

I see IDS and his thinktank, have come up with the notion of raising the pension age to 75, so that people can work longer, as it's good for them. Welcome to the 51st state of Brexitania.

Interesting as average life expectancy in the UK is now 79 for men and 80 for women, and for the first time ever decreasing!
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horlock07

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« Reply #6811 on: Friday, August 23, 2019, 09:23:57 »

Was the £39bn bill set in Euros? If so, does the tanking of the value of the pound mean we now owe more? Have we actually paid some off since March?

That was the point I was making, admittedly badly above. However it will be offset as it was calculated based on our agreed contributions to 2020 (when the next EU budget is set) and on an assumption of us leaving in March 2019. Thus as we failed to leave then we have been in part paying part of it off as we have continued to make said contributions.
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pauld
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« Reply #6812 on: Friday, August 23, 2019, 10:28:22 »

I see IDS and his thinktank, have come up with the notion of raising the pension age to 75, so that people can work longer, as it's good for them.
Which is probably OK if you sit around all day on your fat arse in an office, pontificating like IDS and his thinktank. Good luck working much past 60 if you're a builder. But then I don't imagine they've given much thought to manual labourers, or even care about them if they did
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JBZ
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« Reply #6813 on: Friday, August 23, 2019, 10:36:28 »

I am comfortable with the fact that I won't have enough stashed away to retire at any age.
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horlock07

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« Reply #6814 on: Friday, August 23, 2019, 10:37:54 »

Which is probably OK if you sit around all day on your fat arse in an office, pontificating like IDS and his thinktank. Good luck working much past 60 if you're a builder. But then I don't imagine they've given much thought to manual labourers, or even care about them if they did

IDS's think tank funding is a little murky, although does seem  o include various private pension providers which I am sure you will agree is entirely coincidental with its findings.
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RedRag

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« Reply #6815 on: Friday, August 23, 2019, 12:48:24 »

So, what’s stopping putting a time limit on the backstop - say, 5 years. …………...I know trade deals can take a very long time to negotiate but 5 years should be enough if the bones are already negotiated.

Allow me to give my take on the question (as neutrally as possible for a Remainer)

   1.   The Single Market shares trade regulations agreed by its members who also enjoy tariff-free access throughout.

   2.   The EU protects its Single Market against Third Countries, either on WTO Rules or through trade agreements (eg Canada, Norway etc).  Trading nations (or Unions) use borders to control imports vis tariffs and regulatory compliance.

   3.   A transition period will enable a substantial continuation of the status quo (especially for business) for the UK and the EU even though the UK becomes a third country on Brexit.

   4.   The UK will then decide (will it really!) what type of Brexit it wants.  If it remains close to the EU then border arrangements should be capable of streamlining (eg Switzerland, Norway etc).  If it prefers max independence, then it can expect a much more limited "trade agreement" (eg Canada) and fully effective border controls will be necessary to protect the SM (and probably vice versa).  There is presently no working system of "away from border" control elsewhere in the world.

Backstop Time Limit?

The UK can choose whatever approach it likes and prepare accordingly BUT the EU will not be taking 100% tarrif-free goods via the UK from China or Malaysia or the USA etc IF it chooses a higher level of regulatory and tariff divergence from the EU in an eventual Trade Deal.

Not now (on No Deal), not in 2 years (after a Transition) and not Ever (after a 5 year backstop).

In a nutshell, if the UK chooses to Brexit and with a substantive degree of independence, it is the integrity of the Single Market v the integrity of the UK inc. NI market.

Perhaps there can be a technology solution but what if it didn't work?  The SM will not have non-compliant and tariff-avoiding imports through the Irish border.  I also understand that the UK as well as the EU and all countries are expected to effectively control the flow of imports generally anyway according to WTO rules.

My solution would be to take a referendum in NI to ascertain whether it's people would be willing to diverge from the UK and remain in the SM for trade purposes.  I believe they would.  If that were the case then the outsized DUP influence on Brexit would rightfully be consigned to the minority view I believe it to be.  The EU:UK trade border would then be in the North Sea.

The alternative is that super Boris twists the EU arm and they accept the integrity of the UK market over their
own SM or that there are breaches of the Good Friday Agreement.

The UK, Ireland and the EU need to work together on the border problem.  No Deal is the worst possible outcome from a point of view of both trade and the island of Ireland, north and south.










« Last Edit: Friday, August 23, 2019, 12:57:29 by RedRag » Logged
horlock07

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« Reply #6816 on: Wednesday, August 28, 2019, 08:19:29 »

So the descent to Banana Republic status is complete, well done all!

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-49493632

Who would have thought that taking back control actually meant the privileged upper class far right taking back control.

A truly shameful day in our history.
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Nemo
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« Reply #6817 on: Wednesday, August 28, 2019, 08:28:32 »

I'm sure everyone involved is going to cover themselves in glory here.

The prospect of an autumn election fills me with dread, it's going to be awful.
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RWB Robin

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« Reply #6818 on: Wednesday, August 28, 2019, 08:44:44 »

......and on technological solutions, there could not be two nations more closely associated than Norway and Sweden, one in and one not in the EU; but as anyone who has driven across the border will know, whilst most traffic flows pretty freely, there are border posts, and on the main trade route between Stockholm and Oslo, a high fenced area through which you are required to pass when on the West-East route.  Anything approaching that in Ireland will destroy the Good Friday Agreement.
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pauld
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« Reply #6819 on: Wednesday, August 28, 2019, 09:28:26 »

So the descent to Banana Republic status is complete, well done all!

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-49493632

Who would have thought that taking back control actually meant the privileged upper class far right taking back control.

A truly shameful day in our history.
Governments routinely suspend parliament to (e.g.) hold elections. There is no precedent for a goverment suspending parliament because it doesn't think it can carry through it's business. I'd love someone to explain to me how a government deciding arbitarily that it can usurp parliament on a whim isn't a coup?
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Arriba

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« Reply #6820 on: Wednesday, August 28, 2019, 10:10:38 »

As things stand I'm of the thinking that I won't vote for anything again for the foreseeable future. We are not in a democracy at all. It's so corrupted it's beyond a joke. British politics is in the gutter. All options on everything are a complete farce.
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horlock07

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« Reply #6821 on: Wednesday, August 28, 2019, 10:20:16 »

Governments routinely suspend parliament to (e.g.) hold elections. There is no precedent for a goverment suspending parliament because it doesn't think it can carry through it's business. I'd love someone to explain to me how a government deciding arbitarily that it can usurp parliament on a whim isn't a coup?

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Reg Smeeton
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« Reply #6822 on: Wednesday, August 28, 2019, 11:05:19 »

Governments routinely suspend parliament to (e.g.) hold elections. There is no precedent for a goverment suspending parliament because it doesn't think it can carry through it's business. I'd love someone to explain to me how a government deciding arbitarily that it can usurp parliament on a whim isn't a coup?

The coup was the right thoroughly hijacking the Tory party, this is just a logical extension.  It has to be said that if the British people were that bothered about this, there would be a counter coup out on the streets.  Won't happen. Over the last few years that we as a country have lurched to the right, there are significant numbers who'd welcome a dose of fascist dictatorship.... at least Mussolini got the trains running on time.
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Flashheart

« Reply #6823 on: Wednesday, August 28, 2019, 11:12:30 »

Whichever side of the fence you sit on, you should agree that it's a dangerous precedent to have a PM suspend parliament because things are not going their way. The red ken's of the group should realise that next time it could be the other side doing the same.
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scribblemilk

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« Reply #6824 on: Wednesday, August 28, 2019, 11:22:01 »

Whichever side of the fence you sit on, you should agree that it's a dangerous precedent to have a PM suspend parliament because things are not going their way. The red ken's of the group should realise that next time it could be the other side doing the same.

Agreed, I do think its a ruse to flush out a no confidence vote, the Tories are looking to go to the country with No deal on the agenda, but its a risk, if parliament has no confidence in Boris and if it can gain parliaments confidence in a unity government then it will have backfired on Boris big time. Personally i hope this is what happens if purely to show that is what happens when trying to bypass democracy.
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