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Author Topic: England's exit - why was anyone surprised?  (Read 34497 times)
Samdy Gray
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« Reply #30 on: Tuesday, June 24, 2014, 19:19:52 »

I agree that success at a World Cup is about talented players playing as one cohesive team, not vaguely talented players playing as a team of individuals picked based on merit. That's where England have got it wrong.

Back to Hornby's point about 8 year olds. He's right to some degree. In this country most youngsters are picked on their physical attributes rather than technique. A lot of, but not necessarily all, coaches seem to have this notion that you can teach a kid to pass a ball or score a goal, but that you can't teach pace and power. Whereas if you look at Spain and Italy for example, youngsters are coached to encourage technique and skill.
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Not that Nice If I'm Honest

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« Reply #31 on: Tuesday, June 24, 2014, 19:38:46 »

The Premiership is arguably the most exciting league in the world to watch - and I hate to say it.

It is exciting because the general English supporter (me included) likes to see attacking, fast, end to end football, and the people who hold the purse strings (SKY) promote this as it gets more viewers.

Probably a bigger factor, the climate in England makes high tempo football possible.

Trouble is, if you play that way against the possession style football that is popular elsewhere, it doesn't seem to work.

It's Ok in the Winter, hence we generally qualify, but as the finals are always played in the summer, it's a big ask to try and run around around at high tempo, so the slower football always wins.

England struggle to play any other way, as all their players come from the Premier league, but other countries have only a few, if any, premiership players, so can easily play the slow paced game.

I'd forgotten quite what a football genius I am


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herthab
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« Reply #32 on: Tuesday, June 24, 2014, 19:49:51 »

Not the best examples Sam....
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Posh Red
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« Reply #33 on: Tuesday, June 24, 2014, 20:37:52 »

For as long as I can remember watching England the decent teams we play against have a similar approach. Allow our centre backs to have the ball because they are shite at passing and will eventually either fuck it up or hoof it forward & give the ball back to them.


The main problem with this World Cup was the fact we had too many Liverpool players in the team/squad. In the three tournaments we have done reasonably well we have had no more than three Liverpool players in the squad & only one of those as a regular in the team  Cheesy
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« Reply #34 on: Tuesday, June 24, 2014, 20:39:51 »

The main problem with this World Cup was the fact we had too many Liverpool players in the team/squad. In the three tournaments we have done reasonably well we have had no more than three Liverpool players in the squad & only one of those as a regular in the team  Cheesy

Its all Liverpool's fault. Even their cannibal striker scored twice against us. You can't argue with facts.
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Reg Smeeton
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« Reply #35 on: Tuesday, June 24, 2014, 20:41:26 »

The Premiership is arguably the most exciting league in the world to watch - and I hate to say it.

It is exciting because the general English supporter (me included) likes to see attacking, fast, end to end football, and the people who hold the purse strings (SKY) promote this as it gets more viewers.

Probably a bigger factor, the climate in England makes high tempo football possible.

Trouble is, if you play that way against the possession style football that is popular elsewhere, it doesn't seem to work.

It's Ok in the Winter, hence we generally qualify, but as the finals are always played in the summer, it's a big ask to try and run around around at high tempo, so the slower football always wins.

England struggle to play any other way, as all their players come from the Premier league, but other countries have only a few, if any, premiership players, so can easily play the slow paced game.

I'd forgotten quite what a football genius I am

I kind of thought that, but 2010 was played in winter, and we were worse than usual.
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Bob's Orange
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« Reply #36 on: Tuesday, June 24, 2014, 21:07:10 »

Didn't Belgium re haul the way they did it about 20 years ago by teaching 8 year olds how to play? Belgium for fuck sake!! If they can do it surely we can?
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« Reply #37 on: Tuesday, June 24, 2014, 21:48:44 »

The main problem with this World Cup was the fact we had too many Liverpool players in the team/squad. In the three tournaments we have done reasonably well we have had no more than three Liverpool players in the squad & only one of those as a regular in the team  Cheesy

We certainly tried to play how Liverpool did, but the player that gave them the cutting edge played for Uruguay...and they won sweet FA.

You don't win anything if you have a solid defence, and we certainly didn't.
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« Reply #38 on: Tuesday, June 24, 2014, 21:54:12 »

I wouldn't want to feel like an ivory Coast fan would be feeling now
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Reg Smeeton
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« Reply #39 on: Tuesday, June 24, 2014, 22:08:22 »

Didn't Belgium re haul the way they did it about 20 years ago by teaching 8 year olds how to play? Belgium for fuck sake!! If they can do it surely we can?

Yep can't remember the fellas name, but they essentially followed his blueprint for coaching development....but a lot of it was aimed particularly at putting artificial pitches and coaching into areas of social deprivation. In England we sell them off for housing development...
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RobertT

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« Reply #40 on: Tuesday, June 24, 2014, 22:26:32 »

I'd agree with Hornby, I'd be amazed if we win a World Cup or Euro using any player currently employed as a pro.  All of the youth coming through are ok, but just that.  It grates when I hear pundits talking about - "well, they've got xxxx and he's world class so you can't do much about that" - this is the issue, we just don't create any, any, any world class players.  Not truly.  We are lucky if we have one player who might be good enough to sneak into a tournament 22.  Ferdinand and Campbell had one off good tournaments in their prime, Beckham maybe, Hoddle and Lineker back in the day and the same goes back donkeys.  The aim has to be to focus on youth development, pre clubs getting their mits on players.  Teach technique, the value of keeping the ball, moving the ball and movement of the players in general.  From that you can adapt style and still keep an attacking approach.  In the Uruguay game we struggled to pass around 3 pressing attackers when we had the back four and 2 midfielders to use.  You need 3 or 4 world class level players for a team to feed off, and none od the current crop are that, and it remains no surprise as we don't look for it.
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JoeMezz

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« Reply #41 on: Tuesday, June 24, 2014, 22:35:25 »

Increasing participation in futsal (especially young footballers) will only help England...
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pauld
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« Reply #42 on: Tuesday, June 24, 2014, 22:38:07 »

Yep can't remember the fellas name, but they essentially followed his blueprint for coaching development....but a lot of it was aimed particularly at putting artificial pitches and coaching into areas of social deprivation. In England we sell them off for housing development...
His name was Sablon and his blueprint was published 8 years ago, not 20, although he'd been the Belgian FA's technical director since 2001. I don't believe (although happy to be corrected) any of the "Golden Generation" in the current Belgian squad can really be considered to have come through under his blueprint although some of them would have benefited from the early years of it. And they spent a significant tranche of money on developing a good network of properly trained youth coaches as well as facilities, much as the Germans did after their watershed in 2001.

Whereas we just pissed it all up against the wall on rebuilding Wembley.
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« Reply #43 on: Tuesday, June 24, 2014, 22:39:17 »

Did anyone on here have a hacky sack,  back in the day?
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« Reply #44 on: Wednesday, June 25, 2014, 06:40:32 »

Yes. I was crap at it .
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