Ground redevelopment

[4D]

If the stand was replaced then more would go in it!

[Ardiles]

The Town End has barely changed in 50 years, bar the bolting on of seats to the terrace floor.  (If anyone thinks that is an exaggeration, take a look at the scene approx 10 mins in to 'Six Days to Saturday', shot 50 years ago this month, where the groundsman and an accomplice walk around the Town End with an air rifle taking pot shots at pigeons.  It is completely recognisable as the same stand in use today.)

As a result, it's crap.  The design is from another era.  The roof is far too low and the sight lines are awful.  A decently redeveloped Town End would work wonders for the ground.  Don't buy Jed's argument on this occasion at all.  And it's nearly full most of the time anyway.

[@mwooly63]

The Town End has barely changed in 50 years, bar the bolting on of seats to the terrace floor.  (If anyone thinks that is an exaggeration, take a look at the scene approx 10 mins in to 'Six Days to Saturday', shot 50 years ago this month, where the groundsman and an accomplice walk around the Town End with an air rifle taking pot shots at pigeons.  It is completely recognisable as the same stand in use today.)

As a result, it's crap.  The design is from another era.  The roof is far too low and the sight lines are awful.  A decently redeveloped Town End would work wonders for the ground.  Don't buy Jed's argument on this occasion at all.  And it's nearly full most of the time anyway.

Nah its nowhere near full
I usually stand in the TE unless its a non entity game where atmosphere will be totally dead, Half closest to the DRS gets pretty full but from tunnel to towards arkells in barely 25% full most games ( unless a big game )

And thats really visible from the DRS

Agreed to stand needs replacing tho - I only go in there as its the stand have always gone in bar time spent in the shrivvy, and its the closest to terracing you can get these days.
But if I was a new fan looking to visit the CG, the TE would be the last place I would choose to go.

TV has made a generation of ppl looking for a prem experience even at a lower lg club
And the TE is a million miles from that

[horlock07]

Nah its nowhere near full
I usually stand in the TE unless its a non entity game where atmosphere will be totally dead, Half closest to the DRS gets pretty full but from tunnel to towards arkells in barely 25% full most games ( unless a big game )

And thats really visible from the DRS

Agreed to stand needs replacing tho - I only go in there as its the stand have always gone in bar time spent in the shrivvy, and its the closest to terracing you can get these days.
But if I was a new fan looking to visit the CG, the TE would be the last place I would choose to go.

TV has made a generation of ppl looking for a prem experience even at a lower lg club
And the TE is a million miles from that

The crux of the matter is that to replace the stand is probably £4-5m+ miniumum and whilst this may give an opportunity to incorporate additional facilities that pay on more than 25 days a year the simple truth is the price of admission is only likely to go up. if people won't pay for it now I cannot see them paying more when the view is never going to be better than from a side stand.

[4D]

Visually, the ground looks a bit distorted, there are two good size stands to the sides, an open terrace with seats bolted on that is rarely used, and a home end which is pretty small. The whole ground would get a lift from the TE being rebuilt, so at least the roof height matches the side stands. Something like the Pompey home end but a bit smaller would be good

[@mwooly63]

Its not always that ppl wont pay the price now its the state of the stand for that price

Behind the goal is old school I guess and maybe everyone prefers to sit in the side stands sans atmosphere for the view
Suppose I am a bit of a dinosaur then in that I prefer behind the goal.

IF the bank - or part of it - with a roof on is given to home fans the amount of fans in the TE will only drop further tho would make sense for that to be for away fans
Personally would give the away fans the bank and bugger all else even without a roof
Works for the pikies

[Ardiles]

The crux of the matter is that to replace the stand is probably £4-5m+ miniumum and whilst this may give an opportunity to incorporate additional facilities that pay on more than 25 days a year the simple truth is the price of admission is only likely to go up. if people won't pay for it now I cannot see them paying more when the view is never going to be better than from a side stand.

Your cost estimate is probably not far off (given that the Don Rogers/Intel Stand cost £1.8m to build 20 years ago).  But sooner or later it's a cost that will have to be swallowed.  You can only go on sweating an asset like the Town End for so long before it starts to fall apart completely...and I don't that point can be very far away now.  The Town End is knackered and well past its 'replace by' date already.

[ronnie21]

Interesting arguments here.  I am old enough to remember queuing for the TE every game, and most weeks it was rocking, people being pushed through the turnstiles and everybody being ordered to move up as another 1000 wanted to get in!!  For at least a season the TE was given to away fans only, who manged to create more atmosphere than the rest of the ground put together.  I guess the low roof adds to the acoustics, something that would probably be lost if it is redeveloped.  Interesting that Jed talks of exciting news about redevelopment when we were told they had applied for planning permission before the season had even kicked off!!

[horlock07]

Visually, the ground looks a bit distorted, there are two good size stands to the sides, an open terrace with seats bolted on that is rarely used, and a home end which is pretty small. The whole ground would get a lift from the TE being rebuilt, so at least the roof height matches the side stands. Something like the Pompey home end but a bit smaller would be good

To be fair it does at least have 4 sides...

[Reg Smeeton]

Your cost estimate is probably not far off (given that the Don Rogers/Intel Stand cost £1.8m to build 20 years ago).  But sooner or later it's a cost that will have to be swallowed.  You can only go on sweating an asset like the Town End for so long before it starts to fall apart completely...and I don't that point can be very far away now.  The Town End is knackered and well past its 'replace by' date already.

You can pretty much guarantee, that if SBC decide the TE is no longer fit for purpose, they'll close it down and it will stay closed.

The original TE was paid for by money raised by the fans....it will probably take something similar to happen for there to a replacement any time soon.

[@mwooly63]

I guess the low roof adds to the acoustics, something that would probably be lost if it is redeveloped.

I dont think anyone is looking for a 4/5000 seater stand to be put up as that would never get filled so doesnt have to be a real high stand/roof.
The town end was designed for terracing so has a very low rise from front to back which doesnt give the best view of the far end of the pitch but generates a decent sound.
Rovrums is the opposite being real steep from front to back which didnt give a bad view tbf  ( for behind the goal and a new stand) and still generated noise as the roof wasnt massively high.

[ronnie21]

You can pretty much guarantee, that if SBC decide the TE is no longer fit for purpose, they'll close it down and it will stay closed.

The original TE was paid for by money raised by the fans....it will probably take something similar to happen for there to a replacement any time soon.

There are a lot of grants available from the FA to assist, not sure what the ratios are but it is quite generous.

[Sippo]

I think if the council didn't own the land we would have more investors and more hope of developing the ground.

SBC have always been bastards about the ground.

[Reg Smeeton]

There are a lot of grants available from the FA to assist, not sure what the ratios are but it is quite generous.

There was a time in the early 90's, when there were plenty of grants kicking around for upgrades, and new grounds....which is how we ended up with the DRS, and plans for a similar structure on the Bank.

No idea what the situation is like today....if as you say they're generous, why haven't we done something with the Bank and TE?

[RedRag]

I think if the council didn't own the land we would have more investors and more hope of developing the ground.

Perhaps but what sort of investors?

Oddly enough, whilst owning its own ground has helped some clubs finance Bowl moves (yippee), it has enabled directors to secure their loans on the Ground, allowed the clubs to get even deeper in debt and left clubs  eventually without a ground